They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[str8baller]

6 hours ago, Hornsby said:

I don't ever recall seeing his name near the top of the iu coaching boards online. The hire honestly surprised me. It had been 3 years since he made the elite 8 and he had been bounced two straight years in the first round. Too me a hot coach is somebody like may who had just made a final four. Archie was ok but it certainly did not excite me. I'm guessing his last name made him a hotter commodity than he should have been

 

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I was so checked out of the Crean years I don’t even remember that search well but I think the others are right in that he was a hot candidate. OSU in particular waited, was upset they missed on Archie, then happy they pulled Holtmann which then made some IU people do a double take.  IIRC
 

I personally was just fine, but not overly enthused, with the hire. You always roll the dice taking someone from the lower ranks. But I think you’re right about his last name kind of soothing over concerns. Sean was very successful even with all the baggage.  
 

Two things are true:

1) Archie was a good young mid maj candidate. A lot of big programs would have hired him. 
 

2) He turned out to be awful. 
 

That’s the case with a lot of promising young candidates and why programs try and hire a proven commodity if they can. I don’t see too many proven commodities on the market these days.

[OKHOOSIER]

8 hours ago, Hornsby said:

I don't ever recall seeing his name near the top of the iu coaching boards online. The hire honestly surprised me. It had been 3 years since he made the elite 8 and he had been bounced two straight years in the first round. Too me a hot coach is somebody like may who had just made a final four. Archie was ok but it certainly did not excite me. I'm guessing his last name made him a hotter commodity than he should have been

 

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Archie was 102-36 his last four years at Dayton. 70 games above .500

He won the A10 the last two years and was A10 COTY his last season at Dayton. He absolutely was a hot coach at the time. Again, not trying to litigate the hire again, but it was universally seen as a slam dunk by everyone other than Alford stans lol

[Pagoda]

Archie looked like a good hire from a distance.  I was excited.

But, none of us were in those coaches interviews to get all the detailed information -- personalities, their visions for IUBB, why they thought they would succeed at IU like they did at their current job, what resources they wanted, reference checks, etc.  As fans we don't get all that key detail.

This is where the AD has to earn their big bucks and determine which coaches will translate to IU and which ones won't.  It's hard, but that's the key judgement call we need Scott to get right.  Fred got it wrong with Archie unfortunately.

[iu eyedoc]

13 hours ago, str8baller said:

Actually it is exactly the opposite. You’re dealing with guys who want to win. IUs administration turns people off because they reek of losing and weakness. 
 

You could fire someone every 4 days and it wouldn’t matter to a winner, because winners never even contemplate losing or failing or getting fired. 

This is just meatball speak.

The average tenure of a college basketball coach is 1–2 years. After each season, 15–20% of Division I basketball coaches are fired.

According to available data, a college basketball coach is typically fired around 1-2 times on average throughout their career.

 

Any coach with half a brain would never take a position where a the university routinely fires coaches after one to 2 mediocre seasons with no other issues.

Everyone loves coach Cig's bravado, but only because he is winning. You want to know what a guy with mediocre results that " never even contemplates losing or failing or getting fired," looks like?

 

 

 

 

Woodson-IU.webp

[Scotty R]

10 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://www.insidethehall.com/2017/03/16/names-to-know-iu-basketball-coaching-search-big-board/

Shows how much I know because I wanted Greg Marshall 

[Hornsby]

Archie was 102-36 his last four years at Dayton. 70 games above .500
He won the A10 the last two years and was A10 COTY his last season at Dayton. He absolutely was a hot coach at the time. Again, not trying to litigate the hire again, but it was universally seen as a slam dunk by everyone other than Alford stans lol

He was still a mid major coach and those are never slam dunks. I was expecting a slam dunk proven coach from a higher level. One thing iu is good at is making awful hires. Whether they look good or not. Now obviously archie at least made certain sense. Woodson made zero sense at all. It was nothing but quinn and the old brass taking care of their boy

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[Uspshoosier]

It was a perfect storm of events that happened to allow a coach with O college coaching experience to take over a program like IU.   The old guard have been screaming since knight they needed an IU guy (one of their own) to save them and take them back to national relevance.   The coach before absolutely bombed so the old guard that had big time influence pushed for one of their own.   The results were so bad that it wasn’t going to take much to get fans excited.  Hence IU was second to last team to make the tourney in his first year and they won a game in the First 4.  A fanbase  that hadn’t seen their team in the tourney was hungry so while there were probably signs then they ent overlooked.   Also winning 3 games against Purdue in that span made the warts that were probably showing made them disappear even though they were there.   When I was following recruiting closely back then I pointed out he was taking a non traditional approach to how a head coach starting out normally recruited.  He was recruiting high school kids like he was a Hall of Fame coach named K or Self. I warned at the time it was a huge risk.  Fast Forward 4 years later and high school recruiting for this program is a myth and people on this board that have had high school recruiting as part of their life’s and followed it religiously have lost their drive to follow it as closely as they did.  Thank you again Demo and Old Fart for all the work you put in followIng high school as close as you did.   Hopefully you guys can get back to doing something you love with the team your invested in gets back into normal high school recruiting.   Program is in neutral until they get new leadership and I would hope that would be next year.   I would love to watch an Iu game on the main TV again instead of one of the side back TVs that are normally used for low major games 

[AZ Hoosier]

12 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://www.insidethehall.com/2017/03/16/names-to-know-iu-basketball-coaching-search-big-board/

Interesting list. They bagged on Wittman because: "The question here is: Can he recruit? He’s never done it, which really hurts his candidacy. Wittman would obviously have some support among those who believe the program needs a former player at the helm, but seems like a reach that he’s never led a college program."

Do you know who else had not done any of that at that point in time, and didn't even make the list for consideration? One Michael Dean Woodson. Yet here we are, 8 years later... and festering in mediocrity as a once-blue-blood basketball school.

[AZ Hoosier]

5 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

It was a perfect storm of events that happened to allow a coach with O college coaching experience to take over a program like IU.   The old guard have been screaming since knight they needed an IU guy (one of their own) to save them and take them back to national relevance.   The coach before absolutely bombed so the old guard that had big time influence pushed for one of their own.   The results were so bad that it wasn’t going to take much to get fans excited.  Hence IU was second to last team to make the tourney in his first year and they won a game in the First 4.  A fanbase  that hadn’t seen their team in the tourney was hungry so while there were probably signs then they ent overlooked.   Also winning 3 games against Purdue in that span made the warts that were probably showing made them disappear even though they were there.   When I was following recruiting closely back then I pointed out he was taking a non traditional approach to how a head coach starting out normally recruited.  He was recruiting high school kids like he was a Hall of Fame coach named K or Self. I warned at the time it was a huge risk.  Fast Forward 4 years later and high school recruiting for this program is a myth and people on this board that have had high school recruiting as part of their life’s and followed it religiously have lost their drive to follow it as closely as they did.  Thank you again Demo and Old Fart for all the work you put in followIng high school as close as you did.   Hopefully you guys can get back to doing something you love with the team your invested in gets back into normal high school recruiting.   Program is in neutral until they get new leadership and I would hope that would be next year.   I would love to watch an Iu game on the main TV again instead of one of the side back TVs that are normally used for low major games 

The obvious irony here is that RMK was NOT "an IU guy". He pretty much rode the pine at Ohio State for Fred Taylor... turned out to be lightning in a bottle for IU after Wisconsin screwed the pooch with the hire... but again, Knight was NOT an IU guy at the time of his hire... and our only "IU guy" since RMK has crapped the bed for his entire tenure. 

[Solsberryberries]

12 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://www.insidethehall.com/2017/03/16/names-to-know-iu-basketball-coaching-search-big-board/

Wow-  that list of names.

Plenty of busts in that list.  An argument could be made that some could have had success here, but a program shouldn’t have to compensate for coaching deficiencies to achieve success.

Outside of Stevens and Donovan, the best coach on that list is Marshall.  The dude was a loose cannon (along with his wife), but man could he coach.

It seems to me that the obsessive, crazy coaches are the best coaches.  Some can make up for a lack of obsession with intellect (see Stevens), but even he made irrational decisions for the love of basketball (left a good job at Lilly for peanuts at Butler).

The next coach can’t assume they’re going to win at Indiana-  to really win they will need to obsess over it (which is why I wanted Dusty in April).  

The only thing that would help the sting of losing May is Stevens…and maybe that’s why Dolson didn’t move in April. Just had a call today from a guy with a long history of coaching in college and high school ranks confirming some of the things I heard here-  Stevens is not as long of a shot as we have thought.

[str8baller]

2 hours ago, iu eyedoc said:

This is just meatball speak.

The average tenure of a college basketball coach is 1–2 years. After each season, 15–20% of Division I basketball coaches are fired.

According to available data, a college basketball coach is typically fired around 1-2 times on average throughout their career.

 

Any coach with half a brain would never take a position where a the university routinely fires coaches after one to 2 mediocre seasons with no other issues.

Everyone loves coach Cig's bravado, but only because he is winning. You want to know what a guy with mediocre results that " never even contemplates losing or failing or getting fired," looks like?

 

 

 

 

Woodson-IU.webp

Somehow you missed the point but continued to make my point for me. That’s pretty impressive. 

[Artie86]

3 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Shows how much I know because I wanted Greg Marshall 

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/lists/miami-basketball-jim-larranaga-coach-candidates/
 

This is a pretty impressive and strong list of coaches for IU, (minus #1 & #2) ….lol

[iu eyedoc]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

Somehow you missed the point but continued to make my point for me. That’s pretty impressive. 

Was your point that good coaches have no concern for job security and major basketball programs don't have to do interviews?

Sorry, disproving complete nonsense  that rattles around in your skull and then finds it's way to  your keyboard ain't my thing.

 

[Hornsby]

It was a perfect storm of events that happened to allow a coach with O college coaching experience to take over a program like IU.   The old guard have been screaming since knight they needed an IU guy (one of their own) to save them and take them back to national relevance.   The coach before absolutely bombed so the old guard that had big time influence pushed for one of their own.   The results were so bad that it wasn’t going to take much to get fans excited.  Hence IU was second to last team to make the tourney in his first year and they won a game in the First 4.  A fanbase  that hadn’t seen their team in the tourney was hungry so while there were probably signs then they ent overlooked.   Also winning 3 games against Purdue in that span made the warts that were probably showing made them disappear even though they were there.   When I was following recruiting closely back then I pointed out he was taking a non traditional approach to how a head coach starting out normally recruited.  He was recruiting high school kids like he was a Hall of Fame coach named K or Self. I warned at the time it was a huge risk.  Fast Forward 4 years later and high school recruiting for this program is a myth and people on this board that have had high school recruiting as part of their life’s and followed it religiously have lost their drive to follow it as closely as they did.  Thank you again Demo and Old Fart for all the work you put in followIng high school as close as you did.   Hopefully you guys can get back to doing something you love with the team your invested in gets back into normal high school recruiting.   Program is in neutral until they get new leadership and I would hope that would be next year.   I would love to watch an Iu game on the main TV again instead of one of the side back TVs that are normally used for low major games 

The old guard got what they wanted. I hope they are happy

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[Bowhunter]

1 hour ago, Artie86 said:

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/lists/miami-basketball-jim-larranaga-coach-candidates/
 

This is a pretty impressive and strong list of coaches for IU, (minus #1 & #2) ….lol

I’d take anyone on that list other than Archie at this point.

[Scotty R]

2 hours ago, Hornsby said:

He was still a mid major coach and those are never slam dunks. I was expecting a slam dunk proven coach from a higher level. One thing iu is good at is making awful hires. Whether they look good or not. Now obviously archie at least made certain sense. Woodson made zero sense at all. It was nothing but quinn and the old brass taking care of their boy

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The thing is those slam dunk coaches aren't leaving their current jobs for other jobs. Just look at the last few years of the hiring cycles

[AZ Hoosier]

39 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

The old guard got what they wanted. I hope they are happy

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Or at least, I hope they learned their lesson. The chair of the BoT should not be making coaching hires. Period. Give them an "advise and consent" authority if you must, but do not allow them the strong arm the AD into making a nepotistic hire.

[IUFAN1976]

3 hours ago, Hornsby said:

He was still a mid major coach and those are never slam dunks. I was expecting a slam dunk proven coach from a higher level. One thing iu is good at is making awful hires. Whether they look good or not. Now obviously archie at least made certain sense. Woodson made zero sense at all. It was nothing but quinn and the old brass taking care of their boy

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Last I remember BK was lower than a mid-major coach when he coached Army and went from Army to IU.  You don’t need a proven coach, although it will definitely help us fans to buy back in quicker, but we just need the right hire like BK and coach Cig.  I don’t believe we may be at the point where we need a proven coach because AM and MW have set us back from what little momentum Crean built and the fact that fan trust with the current program and University have totally went gone way way down.  I will ask you this, last year when Dusty May was a mid-major but unproven on the P5 level, would you have taken him?  Now that we wait a year to see how he does a UM and he goes 23-7, or something like that, becomes a 6-8 seed in the tournament, wouldn’t that wait payoff?  His buyout, from what I have heard on this board, is hypothetically affordable.  I would take him, Beard, Pearl, and possibly Wade, if you are wanting a proven coach.  I would consider McCollom if you want to go mid-major but still could be a risk.  Who are you considering?

[Artie86]

I swear, watching the IU/Wisconsin ladies game is what a well coached team looks like! They are a well oiled machine right now. Their passing, shooting, spacing and defense is on point!!! 

[Hornsby]

The thing is those slam dunk coaches aren't leaving their current jobs for other jobs. Just look at the last few years of the hiring cycles

Calipari did.Mussleman did

 

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