Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[JXG 36]

1 hour ago, tyappleg said:

Mike Woodson won't like this. 

https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/2024/03/12/bob-knights-legacy-fails-iu-as-mike-woodson-keeps-coaching/72929876007/

I liked the article because I think the more the situation is brought to light the more pressure will be on all involved.  Bloomington can be in a little bubble and miss the outside world.  Right now it is missing out on modern style of basketball.

 

As for Mr Yonkman, I wonder if he has any job openings?  Obviously Cook International doesn't have job performance standards for their employees.  How else can you explain why he gave money to a failing enterprise?

[8bucks 6,248]

26 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I would say that I personally would think that would make us a bubble team for next year. The offense will still be outdated, and the defense for some reason takes a half year for new people to understand it. Throw in coaching issues and bad FT shooting I have us about where we're at now. 

I am torn on whether it is better to go after MR to keep him or go after a SG/Wing player that can add scoring from the perimeter and inside but is not a liability on defense.  Not sure we can rely on MR, MM and the new big to provide solid inside D next year but those are who I assume we will trot out as starters.  Leaning towards moving MR to the 5 (wont happen and we might be able to find a true 5) or replacing him with a 3/4 combo that can score and play defense.  The latter might get us past the bubble but could completely falter if the portal guys do not deliver like some of the top portal guys this year did.

[True Fan 38]

If there is one thing I've learned from joining this forum is that I am maybe more optimistic than a lot of Hoosier fans are right now, but I'll go ahead and say it.

If there is one thing that the Woodson crew has shown they can do, it is develop players.  TJD, JHS, Reneau, Ware, Mack.  I really feel like they have a decent track record in this area.  I have big hopes (probably too high) that we can get some talent from the portal and develop it. I also expect a different Gabe Cupps next season.

The big knock seems to be that they don't focus on developing anyone who isn't NBA talent, which may just be conjecture.  

[Feathery 4,005]

1 hour ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I will give you two words:  Woodson/Administration

While you’re definitely not wrong and I agree with you. I see more ppl wanting Woodson gone than Archie. I remember debating people that Archie needed to go after year 3. Woodson is a better coach than Archie. Thats not the standard though, but he isn’t as bad as some make him out to me. I think part of it is the arrogance that comes across. But I personally like a bit of cockiness from my coaches. 

[Chris007 42,952]

Just now, 8bucks said:

I am torn on whether it is better to go after MR to keep him or go after a SG/Wing player that can add scoring from the perimeter and inside but is not a liability on defense.  Not sure we can rely on MR, MM and the new big to provide solid inside D next year but those are who I assume we will trot out as starters.  Leaning towards moving MR to the 5 (wont happen and we might be able to find a true 5) or replacing him with a 3/4 combo that can score and play defense.  The latter might get us past the bubble but could completely falter if the portal guys do not deliver like some of the top portal guys this year did.

Well just know that MR is the favorite player of his coach and he will be overpaid to stay. 

[8bucks 6,248]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

One more thought, at the risk of saying something positive (*ducks):

This era has produced a high-level decommit recruit in late-spring three out of three years. Only one of them (Mgbkao) turned into a 30 mpg player his freshman year, but all three have been rotation players from the get-go. Based on that track record, it is reasonable to expect that we will have a freshman or two on the roster.

One more potential underrated positive thought (*ducks again): if he doesn't go portal-ing, a healthy Jakai Newton could be a truly  impactful player next season.

I have been saying the same about freshman decommits being part of this.  Right now though they seem more likely to need to go to our depth vs being a starter.  Will that sit with them?  

How was Newton's outside game?  

[Stuhoo 77,369]

1 minute ago, Feathery said:

While you’re definitely not wrong and I agree with you. I see more ppl wanting Woodson gone than Archie. I remember debating people that Archie needed to go after year 3. Woodson is a better coach than Archie. Thats not the standard though, but he isn’t as bad as some make him out to me. I think part of it is the arrogance that comes across. But I personally like a bit of cockiness from my coaches. 

Maybe it's me (alright...it's definitely me) but I think the prospect of Dusty May has a real impact on the wish to move on from Woody now and not down the line.

[Trish 11,442]

50 minutes ago, JimmerNoe said:

Posing a question in light of the money we apparently have at our disposal: how do we feel about 24-25 if the summer ends like this

PG: Proven 15+ ppg P5 transfer

SG: Proven P5 40ish percent from 3

SF: Galloway

PF: Reneau/Mgbako

C: 5* Rim Protector/Reneau

Bench: guard transfer, leal, cupps, sparks

Are we excited? Still pissed? Indifferent? I know there is a lot of vitriol currently, but maybe we have to consider the massive NIL contributions as a Woody-specific benefit that could outweigh some of his admittedly glaring issues. I doubt they would throw a blank check if we made a change this year. Just trying to talk myself into being excited this summer and next year. I feel defeated already lol

Mike Woodson couldn't win with NBA athletes, he really hasn't done anything with college athletes either. Getting blown out to St. Mary's and Miami in March with the best player in the country is not great. 

[Stuhoo 77,369]

1 minute ago, 8bucks said:

I have been saying the same about freshman decommits being part of this.  Right now though they seem more likely to need to go to our depth vs being a starter.  Will that sit with them?  

How was Newton's outside game?  

If projections hold true? Newton's outside game will be his weakness, but he would give us something we don't have; an ultra-quick, ultra strong bully at SG. 

[KNOBYDOX 109]

If mr stays and we get a new big, how does our offense change for the better ?

[Trish 11,442]

5 minutes ago, True Fan said:

If there is one thing I've learned from joining this forum is that I am maybe more optimistic than a lot of Hoosier fans are right now, but I'll go ahead and say it.

If there is one thing that the Woodson crew has shown they can do, it is develop players.  TJD, JHS, Reneau, Ware, Mack.  I really feel like they have a decent track record in this area.  I have big hopes (probably too high) that we can get some talent from the portal and develop it. I also expect a different Gabe Cupps next season.

The big knock seems to be that they don't focus on developing anyone who isn't NBA talent, which may just be conjecture.  

Has Malik really gotten better or has his usage just increased without TJD? Same goes for Ware basically. 

[Golfman25 4,847]

46 minutes ago, JimmerNoe said:

Posing a question in light of the money we apparently have at our disposal: how do we feel about 24-25 if the summer ends like this

PG: Proven 15+ ppg P5 transfer

SG: Proven P5 40ish percent from 3

SF: Galloway

PF: Reneau/Mgbako

C: 5* Rim Protector/Reneau

Bench: guard transfer, leal, cupps, sparks

Are we excited? Still pissed? Indifferent? I know there is a lot of vitriol currently, but maybe we have to consider the massive NIL contributions as a Woody-specific benefit that could outweigh some of his admittedly glaring issues. I doubt they would throw a blank check if we made a change this year. Just trying to talk myself into being excited this summer and next year. I feel defeated already lol

There is zero evidence that Miracle Mike can get that done.  Money or not.  

TJD (by all the highlights, killing it in the NBA) and Ware about to go -- yet another NBA prospect decides he would rather go to Maryland of all places than follow in their footsteps.  Money didn't keep him.

24 hours after it's announced the coach is coming back, your 5*, NBA prospect, says later boys.   Money didn't keep him.  

Struck out on all the other high level high school prospects.  Money did jack squat there.  

We have had 6 transfers in -- the two best:  Ware and X.  Kopp and Walker where plus additions, but not difference makers.  So now I am to believe we are going to do what no other program has done -- land 5-6 of the top 50 or so portal transfers because we have money.  I'll believe it when I see it.  

Biz Professor Waldman taught me something while I was at IU.  When starting a business, money can be a curse.  It allows you to buy out your problems, not solve them.  We are there fellas.  

[ClarkCoHoosier 70]

4 minutes ago, True Fan said:

If there is one thing I've learned from joining this forum is that I am maybe more optimistic than a lot of Hoosier fans are right now, but I'll go ahead and say it.

If there is one thing that the Woodson crew has shown they can do, it is develop players.  TJD, JHS, Reneau, Ware, Mack.  I really feel like they have a decent track record in this area.  I have big hopes (probably too high) that we can get some talent from the portal and develop it. I also expect a different Gabe Cupps next season.

The big knock seems to be that they don't focus on developing anyone who isn't NBA talent, which may just be conjecture.  

One of problems with the portal is, we have no idea who will even be in the portal. There may not even be a really good point guard who goes in. And then, we have to be the one who gets him. Its all just too risky. I fully believe next year we will look like Louisville does this year and that is just so depressing. I live really close to Louisville and let me tell you, if Woody thinks IU fans aren't true fans, he should check out Louisville fans. It has been extremely ugly. The attendance at some of their games has been less than 5,000.

[cleeter 2,051]

26 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Exactly why I didn't want to go this route for next season. Just like everyone said he needed to hit a home run in the 24 recruiting. Well we struck out.

Now we have to hit a HR in the portal. If we hit a single or double it's just not good enough. 

Winning by relying on the portal has been proven to not work. And in no way is a good was to sustain success. I dont not want to be, nor could root to be Portal U

And thats all we will be, because Woodson has had 3 years to recruit. He went 0-31 this year. Enough said

[True Fan 38]

3 minutes ago, Trish said:

Has Malik really gotten better or has his usage just increased without TJD? Same goes for Ware basically. 

Definitely a fair question.  I do think that if people who are in the know (Izzo, for example) are crediting Woodson with Ware, then I will too.

It feels like Reneau has improved a lot, but that could be just him maturing and getting stronger and a lack of TJD, like you said.  Reneau is probably more subjective than Ware

[JSHoosier 19,700]

6 minutes ago, KNOBYDOX said:

If mr stays and we get a new big, how does our offense change for the better ?

It won't. He's shown how he wants to play, we should believe it.

[RaceToTheTop 24,421]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

There was a reason Woody thanked Pete Yonkman at the senior day festivities. If anyone doesn't know Pete is the president of Cook Inc. 

The check had been deposited into our NIL collective for next year. If we don't get a recruit from the transfer portal it's because they don't want to play for Mike Woodson and has nothing to do with money. I don't know how much the check was but from what I'm hearing is we won't be outbid for a transfer. 

From what you had heard from about behind the scenes, were you surprised that he thanked Dolson?

[JimmerNoe 487]

I’m going to try to stay positive because honestly it’s happier and healthier lol. One thing I will say about Malik is that he made a huge leap physically this offseason. Additionally he showed he has no problem shooting the three when it’s open. Maybe this summer he takes another leap and is the best big in the BIG. I don’t feel like we would be overpaying based on his trajectory if he made top tier money. As we’ve all discussed, something’s gotta give strategy wise but I would be comfortable with MM and MR being towards the top of our pay scale. They would get it elsewhere.

[Golfman25 4,847]

16 minutes ago, JXG said:

I liked the article because I think the more the situation is brought to light the more pressure will be on all involved.  Bloomington can be in a little bubble and miss the outside world.  Right now it is missing out on modern style of basketball.

 

As for Mr Yonkman, I wonder if he has any job openings?  Obviously Cook International doesn't have job performance standards for their employees.  How else can you explain why he gave money to a failing enterprise?

Best line on the internet:

Buckner was 13-69 as an NBA coach, Wittman was 278-406 and Thomas is known for driving an entire league into the ground.

 

[Chris007 42,952]

1 minute ago, RaceToTheTop said:

From what you had heard from about behind the scenes, were you surprised that he thanked Dolson?

Not at all. It would have seemed like something was wrong if he didn't. In his eyes, it's only the fans who think he's bad at his job, not his boss. I'm guessing he's about to find out that Dolson doesn't think it's all roses though.