Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Home Jersey 6,697]

10 minutes ago, SamIam said:

4. Please god not Bruce Pearl. If we smite our program for Sampson and then 15 years later hire another old scumbag I will not be happy. Some of y'all will say winning is all that matters. It's not a choice between losing with a good person and winning with a bad, we can win with either and I'd prefer someone who isn't a known bad guy. Young, energetic, modern offense, experience with modern college basketball, and preferably an appreciation for what the Indiana job is. There are a few guys I would understand. But not Pearl.

I agree with all your points except this one. To my knowledge, Bruce's scandals were the 2017-2018 Adidas payments (which he only had to serve a 2 game suspension for whereas others had harsher punishments... and is now largely legal) and recording a conversation with a recruit where they admitted that Illinois gave them impermissible benefits while an assistant at Iowa. So if anything, he was trying to do the "right" thing in that situation according to the NCAA... who I have zero interest in appeasing/giving very little weight to their prior punishments which everyone knows are as phony as it gets. Pearl dabbles in the grey area that you need to compete in this day and age. I want someone who can help us compete while living up to our standards.  

People who have been in Bruce Pearl's orbit generally speak very highly of him as a man and his character. Still being available to his guys, even from Southern Indiana, to this day. In the world of "bad guys vs. good guys" you can find an awful lot worse bad guys than Bruce Pearl IMO.

[IUFAN1976 2,796]

2 hours ago, Deserthoozier said:

If I was interviewing candidates and/or working with their agents and that question came up, I would just be completely candid…

Listen, there was a lot of internal issues/bad decisioning and circumstance that were behind that hire — and now, clearly the pigeons have come home to roost! Stevens soft committed to us, and we thought we had a home run. He nastily leveraged us for the GM assignment in Boston, pulled out late in the process - leaving us with our pants down. Forced to scramble, internal connections played a major role (BOD prez dictated buddy ball)…and we brought in someone historically well esteemed, NBA experience, but semi-retired and w/zero college coaching experience. To support the risk and maintain stability, we kept a lot of our old staff, brought in a very successful former P5 head coach, and a long term assistant from one of the consistently best programs in the B1G the last qtr century. We also let him bring in a stealth strategist to sit and sometimes sleep in chair one on the bench and keep the players relaxed in game.

Well, said coach ran off the more experienced support rails, and the rest turned into a dumpster fire. THUS, our reason for moving forward while there’s still any semblance of smoking embers in the program’s fire pit. We need a true winner who has shown success, has the energy and time to be 100% committed, and is ready to leverage the force that IU basketball can be. We think you/you’re client is that guy - and we’re willing to pay to prove it!

That’s all well said and good but our administration has made a mockery of our basketball program over the past 25 years and it just keeps getting worse.  No good coach in their right minds would want to come here, if they do, I will be surprised.  We may be lucky to get the caliber of coach that Michael Lewis’s level 

[AH1971 1,446]

10 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Wow, just got finished going through this thread. We did some work boys. 

Couple of points:

1. We should cool it with all the hate. I get we all love IU, but the hate for Dolson, Buckner, Woody and everyone involved is getting a little much. It seems to me that Woody is old, lacks the energy to be a coach in this day and age, and inflexible. That enough justifies a change, but I also believe he is a good man. Dolson is a great AD, if you understand college athletics at all, you understand that. Buckner is a legend. He cares, he wanted a return to the tradition of the IU program in the last cycle just like we all did. We are running our coach, a program legend, off in his third year. I believe it needs to be done but its sad. 

2. This next year is going to be crazy if we move. All 2-time transfers are immediately eligible now so its going to be true free agency. Further evidence to move now. 

3. Wtf did Trilly say?

4. Please god not Bruce Pearl. If we smite our program for Sampson and then 15 years later hire another old scumbag I will not be happy. Some of y'all will say winning is all that matters. It's not a choice between losing with a good person and winning with a bad, we can win with either and I'd prefer someone who isn't a known bad guy. Young, energetic, modern offense, experience with modern college basketball, and preferably an appreciation for what the Indiana job is. There are a few guys I would understand. But not Pearl.

Can you elaborate more on point 4 please? As someone who lived in Evansville during the Pearl/USI years and has personally engaged with Pearl on multiple occasions, "bad person" wouldn't even be in the top 10,000 words used to describe Bruce Pearl. He's a genuine, passionate guy who cares deeply for his craft. 

Edited February 22 by AH1971

[cybergates 427]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

For some reason, he's still my guy. Especially if they make a deep NCAA run again. 

I think Oats is the only one I have above him since he's a bit more proven at this stage.

I know it doesn't sound well coming off hiring "IU guy" Woodson, but if we're taking a mid-major "unproven" guy, I want Dusty May because of his love for IU on top of all his other accomplishments/credentials that can be compared to others (Schertz, TJ, etc.) Doesn't hurt that his buyout isn't killer either.

[AZ Hoosier 6,571]

5 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Wow, just got finished going through this thread. We did some work boys. 

Couple of points:1. We should cool it with all the hate. I get we all love IU, but the hate for Dolson, Buckner, Woody and everyone involved is getting a little much. It seems to me that Woody is old, lacks the energy to be a coach in this day and age, and inflexible. That enough justifies a change, but I also believe he is a good man. Dolson is a great AD, if you understand college athletics at all, you understand that. Buckner is a legend. He cares, he wanted a return to the tradition of the IU program in the last cycle just like we all did. We are running our coach, a program legend, off in his third year. I believe it needs to be done but its sad. 

I don't hate any of them... but I do hate the way they have treated the Indiana basketball legacy. Woodson has no business being the coach. He has no clue what the job requires, and no clue what he's doing here - he hasn't had a clue for 3 years here... Buckner was wrong to bring him here... and this past season has been all of the evidence that I need to make that claim. Dolson manage to give an incompetent, in-over-his-head coach a raise of $1M annually, and reset the buyout clause - all for a man than no other organized basketball organization was the least bit interested in having coach their team.

Quote

4. Please god not Bruce Pearl. If we smite our program for Sampson and then 15 years later hire another old scumbag I will not be happy. Some of y'all will say winning is all that matters. It's not a choice between losing with a good person and winning with a bad, we can win with either and I'd prefer someone who isn't a known bad guy. Young, energetic, modern offense, experience with modern college basketball, and preferably an appreciation for what the Indiana job is. There are a few guys I would understand. But not Pearl.

Agreed. No matter what the question is, Pearl is not the answer.

[Go_Hoosiers 191]

1 minute ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I don't hate any of them... but I do hate the way they have treated the Indiana basketball legacy. Woodson has no business being the coach. He has no clue what the job requires, andno clue what he's doing here - he hasn't had a clue for 3 years here... Buckner was wrong to bring him here... and this past season has been all of the evidence that I need to make that claim. Dolson manage to give an incompetent, in-over-his-head coach a raise of $1M annually, and reset the buyout clause - all for a man than no other organized basketball organization was the least bit interested in having coach their team.

Agreed. No matter what the question is, Pearl is not the answer.

Google Bruce Pearl. He wins. He is the answer. I literally don't care about anything else at this point. Bring back Kelvin Sampson for all I care.

[cybergates 427]

2 hours ago, ledies22 said:

2 weeks ago I was still in the Woodson camp. Now I am not. bare minimum, with the talent we have you cannot lose at home to unranked PSU and Nebraska by 13 and 14 points.

Love Woody, I hope he announces he's stepping away after the last regular season game, giving him the B1G tournament his farewell tour.

Otherwise can him at halftime of game 1 of BTT when we are down by 10 at HF against OSU or Michigan and hopefully IU is currently kicking tires to have someone lined up next day. 

It would actually be great if Woodson announced he was retiring at the end of the year.

I think most, if not all, of the boo's and anger would subside and we could give him a proper farewell and thanks for ending the tournament drought and for trying to get us over the hump. Restore some of the love so many IU fans had for him before this season went way too far south.

[JF87 1,413]

18 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

The administration has definitely created a conundrum and I am afraid that any quality coach in their right mind would see what buffoons our administration is and won’t have any part of it.  We will have to settle for getting Tom Crean back, because “it’s Indiana”

Most quality coaches are simply going to use IU as leverage to get an increase at their current jobs.  If you are a top P5 coach you probably not interested in rebuilding Indiana. Really, why would you leave a program that you have rolling to come to Indiana?  You might find that niche candidate that has a new AD they don't like or wants to move to the Midwest to be closer to family.  But I would assume that most successful P5 coaches are comfortable where they're at.  We, as IU fans, see us as sleeping giants. I'm not sure outsiders do.  

[IUFAN1976 2,796]

39 minutes ago, hper50 said:

What's frustrating to me is all these people saying Indiana fans think they're bluebloods and have unrealistic expectations. This isn't even close to true. We aren't asking to be Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas. We just want to be as consistent as Wisconsin, Virginia, Texas, Baylor, and *gasp* Purdue.

Consistently in the tournament,  usually a 4-6 seed, occasionally in contention to make a deep run. We aren't asking for the world. Hopefully someone can get us there soon.

Exactly, you can’t win it if you aren’t in it!  

[Herotime 723]

I’d dive into pool of razor blades to get Pearl. He’s done very well with less talent and at football schools. I’d take six years of his passion and intensity any day of the week.

[lillurk 3,738]

8 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I agree with all your points except this one. To my knowledge, Bruce's scandals were the 2017-2018 Adidas payments (which he only had to serve a 2 game suspension for whereas others had harsher punishments... and is now largely legal) and recording a conversation with a recruit where they admitted that Illinois gave them impermissible benefits while an assistant at Iowa. So if anything, he was trying to do the "right" thing in that situation according to the NCAA... who I have zero interest in appeasing/giving very little weight to their prior punishments which everyone knows are as phony as it gets. Pearl dabbles in the grey area that you need to compete in this day and age. I want someone who can help us compete while living up to our standards.  

People who have been in Bruce Pearl's orbit generally speak very highly of him as a man and his character. Still being available to his guys, even from Southern Indiana, to this day. In the world of "bad guys vs. good guys" you can find an awful lot worse bad guys than Bruce Pearl IMO.

 

7 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Can you elaborate more on point 4 please? As someone who lived in Evansville during the Pearl/USI years and has personally engaged with Pearl on multiple occasions, "bad person" wouldn't even be in the top 10,000 words used to describe Bruce Pearl. He's a genuine, passionate guy who cares deeply for his craft. 

Here’s a decent summary of what Pearl’s done, though it omits the Aaron Craft saga at UT that got him a show cause.

The cumulative facts point to someone who will bend and break rules to gain an advantage and may leave the program worse in his wake. Many of the broken rules are no longer but the process speaks loudly.

All that aside: 64 next month. Makes too much at AU. Not the guy, it’s fine to like him as a coach but be realistic and honest with yourselves about whether he’ll get any consideration whatsoever.

[IUFAN1976 2,796]

40 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I think swinging for the fences is fine... put your best package together and go for it... but have a freaking backup plan... the odds were pretty great that Stevens (and Donovan before him) were not coming... so give them your best shot, but then be ready when they say "no". 

The Woodson hire was a knee-jerk, panic reaction ... and it looked like there was no way Dolson thought Stevens could say no... Stevens and his wife played Dolson like a cheap fiddle, and Dolson had no idea what his next move was. It was, IMO, incompetence on display.

Probably why Dolson needs to go too

[AH1971 1,446]

16 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Agreed. No matter what the question is, Pearl is not the answer.

IU can (and probably will) do a lot worse than Pearl, all things considered. I understand the hesitation with someone like Pearl, most likely due to age, but some of these character assassinations of Pearl are not only wild, just outright untrue. I get that Dusty May is the likely and preferred candidate, and while I would agree he has a ton of upside and could do great things at this university, he's nowhere near the sure thing that Bruce Pearl would be. Given IU's current position and mere treading of water for the last two decades, I'm not sure IU can afford anything but a sure thing at this point.

6 to 8 solid years of Pearl is the remedy this program needs in my honest opinion. You need a guy who can come in and be competitive from day 1. You need a guy who can change the culture of the program and do it almost overnight. You need somebody to build a foundation that IU hasn't had since Knight was fired almost 25 years ago. I trust Pearl to do that over May. 

Edited February 22 by AH1971

[68Hoosier 514]

10 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Yeah, they got guys who had never been HC's before and they are rolling because they have a brand. We aren't that brand anymore, thats why I favor a program builder. 

Oh, I wouldn't say we don't have a brand.  We have a huge following with great facilities.  Even after the past 25 years of not great showings.  We have the backing for a top NIL program on top of all that so I don't understand how we cannot get it right.  I talked to several of the players during Hoosier Hysteria this year.  Was in the locker room with them as they were getting ready and there just was no emotion or feel as if they were at a top program like IU.  Just looked like a group of high school guy hanging out.  Now I know it was not before a game, but it didn't feel big time. 

[TheWatShot 13,689]

1 minute ago, JF87 said:

Most quality coaches are simply going to use IU as leverage to get an increase at their current jobs.  If you are a top P5 coach you probably not interested in rebuilding Indiana. Really, why would you leave a program that you have rolling to come to Indiana?  You might find that niche candidate that has a new AD they don't like or wants to move to the Midwest to be closer to family.  But I would assume that most successful P5 coaches are comfortable where there at.  We, as IU fans, see us as sleeping giants. I'm not sure outsiders do.  

This. We're not getting a proven P5 coach for these reasons. Indiana, to us, is a special place because we're Indiana fans. Indiana, to non-IU fans, is just another basketball program. It's a lateral move for most P5 jobs these days. 

[Home Jersey 6,697]

1 minute ago, Herotime said:

I dive into pool of razor blades to get Pearl. He’s done very well with less talent and at football schools. I’d take six years of his passion and intensity any day of the week.

Yup. Six years with Pearl would be sure to have us in good shape... actually build a "bridge" for the next guy to come in.

If May actually has an IU out clause in his FAU contract, he could probably get it added to a contract at a P5 school too.

Of course, timing is always the mystery... it's certainly ripe for a change this offseason though.

Can't go into offseason with a dead duck coaching staff.

[JF87 1,413]

10 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I agree with all your points except this one. To my knowledge, Bruce's scandals were the 2017-2018 Adidas payments (which he only had to serve a 2 game suspension for whereas others had harsher punishments... and is now largely legal) and recording a conversation with a recruit where they admitted that Illinois gave them impermissible benefits while an assistant at Iowa. So if anything, he was trying to do the "right" thing in that situation according to the NCAA... who I have zero interest in appeasing/giving very little weight to their prior punishments which everyone knows are as phony as it gets. Pearl dabbles in the grey area that you need to compete in this day and age. I want someone who can help us compete while living up to our standards.  

People who have been in Bruce Pearl's orbit generally speak very highly of him as a man and his character. Still being available to his guys, even from Southern Indiana, to this day. In the world of "bad guys vs. good guys" you can find an awful lot worse bad guys than Bruce Pearl IMO.

Bruce Pearl lied to NCAA investigators about an impermissible barbeque held for recruits.  He was given a rather harsh 3-year show cause penalty.  

[iu-dl 1,442]

6 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I don't hate any of them... but I do hate the way they have treated the Indiana basketball legacy. Woodson has no business being the coach. He has no clue what the job requires, and no clue what he's doing here - he hasn't had a clue for 3 years here... Buckner was wrong to bring him here... and this past season has been all of the evidence that I need to make that claim. Dolson manage to give an incompetent, in-over-his-head coach a raise of $1M annually, and reset the buyout clause - all for a man than no other organized basketball organization was the least bit interested in having coach their team.

Agreed. No matter what the question is, Pearl is not the answer.

I get why Pearl would make you pause due to his age, but that's the only drawback I see. Pearl is hands down everything Woody is not. He's a recruiter, a winner and has a long-standing track record of success...plus he wants to be here. Aside from age, he's 10x what we have now. Plus he's willing to toe the line, something I think IU needs. Is he Brad Stevens or a young star in the making, no, but he's not asleep on the sidelines and refusing to recruit. But hey, maybe he can get us over the hump.

[IUFAN1976 2,796]

41 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Yeah, I think I've seen this movie... it has a happy ending (the coach gets his walking papers).

And he was laughing all the way to the bank

[AH1971 1,446]

10 minutes ago, lillurk said:

 

Here’s a decent summary of what Pearl’s done, though it omits the Aaron Craft saga at UT that got him a show cause.

The cumulative facts point to someone who will bend and break rules to gain an advantage and may leave the program worse in his wake. Many of the broken rules are no longer but the process speaks loudly.

All that aside: 64 next month. Makes too much at AU. Not the guy, it’s fine to like him as a coach but be realistic and honest with yourselves about whether he’ll get any consideration whatsoever.

But none of that points to Pearl being a scumbag. Ratting out a rival team (40 years ago) or hosting a recruit at a family bbq or having a rogue assistant accepting bribes to influence current players to a certain agency upon graduation doesn't warrant the scumbag slander. 

Edited February 22 by AH1971