Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Golfman25 5,004]

40 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

As a reflect on what people are saying on here... I saw what Brad Stevens did in 2010/2011 and thought to myself, "there will never be anyone else like him."... Until I saw Chris Beard go to an E8, then to the Title Game the next year... We missed on Stevens, and we didn't go after Beard.... I thought there wouldn't be anyone else as good as Beard or Stevens.... Until I watched Dusty May (who's having an eerily similar records as Stevens did in his 2 year run).

If we miss on Dusty, I'm sure there will be another that will pop up in 3 to 5 or 8 years that will be another elite coach with loose ties to Indiana that could be a program changer. But the universe has been handing IUBB answers to all of our problems to change our program... The administration just isn't listening... 

They just said on the Ole Miss v Kentucky game that over the last 12 ranked opponents, the Lord Beard is 0-12.  I'll pass.    At least Woodson beat a ranked Purdue team last year.  :)   

[kreigh8 2,021]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

They just said on the Ole Miss v Kentucky game that over the last 12 ranked opponents, the Lord Beard is 0-12.  I'll pass.    At least Woodson beat a ranked Purdue team last year.  :)   

How many of those 12 were by 15+ points id be interested to know. Doubt it’ll be Beard up next, but after all these blowouts those Purdue wins feel so long ago

[Golfman25 5,004]

3 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

This is a known thing. All sports with recruiting at any collective program. Again, not just College BB. Coaches lie all over now. They will say what it takes. If the program is good enough, it can handle the fallout. If not, they hope to win big and quick or move on. Or… sorry, didn’t work out, here is the portal. Transfer rates are huge not just from players running away but from coaches making promises they don’t keep.
 

you keep avoiding - why? Why even take the “challenge” at IU if I have another offer with a starter role and much clearer path. Most of the cases better team as well. No reason to.

Because you haven't answered my question.  What is the difference between coming to IU and competing with X & Gallo Or going to UNC/AZ and competing against the other player they brought in who plays the same position?  If they are afraid to compete against X & Gallo, certainly they are afraid to compete against another big tyne player.  

Now if you say UNC/AZ are better programs, then fine -- you found the missing link.  Nothing to do with X & Gallo.  

[colonel06 1,913]

Anyone else see the Bob Knight brand autographed shirt Chris Beard is wearing?

[Uspshoosier 45,052]

3 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

you keep avoiding - why? Why even take the “challenge” at IU if I have another offer with a starter role and much clearer path. Most of the cases better team as well. No reason to.

For me if the player is a competitor and IU sells them on exposure why wouldn’t a player take the challenge.   If the player was a lead guard his people should of looked at the fact that IUs lead guard had not played meaningful minutes for almost a year and that the only other lead guard was a freshman pg ranked closer to 100 then he was 50.  That’s opportunity for minutes to be taken from an outsider.   As always it’s not just 1 factor as to why IU was dreadful in bringing in guards.   Woodys unwillingness to take anyone he didn’t think was an upgrade at the position was a factor.   Not every great college player has to be an NBA prototypical player.   There was players to be had in the portal some just didn’t fit the mold and was never really an option for this staff

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,946]

For me if the player is a competitor and IU sells them on exposure why wouldn’t a player take the challenge.   If the player was a lead guard his people should of looked at the fact that IUs lead guard had not played meaningful minutes for almost a year and that the only other lead guard was a freshman pg ranked closer to 100 then he was 50.  That’s opportunity for minutes to be taken from an outsider.   As always it’s not just 1 factor as to why IU was dreadful in bringing in guards.   Woodys unwillingness to take anyone he didn’t think was an upgrade at the position was a factor.   Not every great college player has to be an NBA prototypical player.   There was players to be had in the portal some just didn’t fit the mold and was never really an option for this staff

I’d like to know if Antonio Reeves behind the scenes was legit? He’s one we really could have used. We didn’t seem to get any traction whatsoever on the other ones we considered. And we considered some mid guys imo.

 

I would have Loved to see Love at IU in retrospect. Woody woulda been pulling hair out that doesn’t exist. Lol. And at least Arizon tries to offensive rebound it’s misses. So Love can take 2 or 3 a possession if he wants. Lol.

 

 

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[Banksyrules 4,525]

On 2/3/2024 at 9:21 PM, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

For reference, the thread that originally started as Fire Archie Miller and transitioned to Archie Miller Fired reached 87 pages in a span of 2 months.

The Fire Tom Crean thread that transitioned to Tom Crean Fired reached a whopping 1,089 pages and stretched from Jan. 2014 to July 2017.

Woody's got a lot of ground to make up.

Not bad guys. Not bad at all. 

[Uspshoosier 45,052]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’d like to know if Antonio Reeves behind the scenes was legit? He’s one we really good have used. We didn’t seem to get any traction whatsoever on the other ones we considered. And we considered some mid guys imo.

 

I would have Loved to see Love at IU in retrospect. Woody woulda been pulling hair out that doesn’t exist. Lol. And at least Arizon tries to offensive rebound it’s misses. So Love can take 2 or 3 a possession if he wants. Lol.

 

 

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Not sure on Reeves but I do know he was back at Illinois St about to take classes to graduate and many insiders said he was gone and then all of a sudden he was back in Lexington.    Guards and wings are where a program should be built and then go from there.  Until IU figures that out in my opinion nothing good will come of it.   Baylor has more guards than they know what to do with.    Little barely gets any pt.  I’m sure he was told he would have a bigger role and then Drew decided he needed more guards so he went and got 3 more in the portal and all of them came no matter who was there.  Don’t care how elite you bigs are you better have guards and wings or your fans will be making a lot of noise on message boards 

[Banksyrules 4,525]

On 2/3/2024 at 8:58 PM, tkbbn said:

I think we should all guess how many pages this thread goes to before we actually fire CMW. My guess is 36. Probably low.

Just a smudge off. 

[Uspshoosier 45,052]

2 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

am trying to think of a guard, who isn’t playing big minutes, that didn’t make a better decision for themselves than taking a flyer to go against 2 returning seniors.

Those Guards could have gotten big minutes even if 2 returning senior starters were back.  Staff just needed to sell them on it.  Maybe not in Woodys system but in other coaches system they play more guards and wings at a time.  Too many guards to count that could have came here it’s the staffs job to field a team that is competitive especially if the goal is championships.   If they thought they had a championship backcourt going into the season then they should have been let go before game 1.  Of course this year will be different in the portal because of the results of doing nothing last year.   I bet you they won’t leave an  open scholly this year.   We agree on one thing though.  The schedule was poorly handled this year.   Woodys stubbornness in wanting IU to play in the marquee matchups cost them.  Got to ease your way into those games.  Getting slaughtered in every marquee matchup hurts more than it helps.   They could have played 3 teams borderline top 50 that wasn’t UConn, Kansas or Auburn and they would have had a better chance of winning those games especially with a young team.   Of course fans want to see those games but where the program is compared to where those programs are and how long they have had to get their programs rolling is a bad bad move in my opinion.  Even with a team that isn’t good they could of still be on the bubble with the right schedule 

[Uspshoosier 45,052]

https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/transferportalpositionranking/
just hit load more players and scroll on down the list.    Guards were there just like they will be this year.   1 of those guards would of done better then open scholly did this year 

[Hornsby 1,652]

Besides being an IU alum, I don’t know what all the hoopla is about for Dusty May.  As far as we know, he could be Archie Miller 2.0.  He made it to the FF but I’ve never heard of him until last year.  What has he exactly done prior to that?  He’s never coached at or ran a power 5 program.  Micheal Lewis is in his 2nd year at Ball State, and he could very well be just as good as Dusty May after year 3-5.  I would think there are better proven coaches that could be interested in the IU job with a solid NIL program.  Who knows, maybe Nate Oats would want to coach at a basketball school

I don't think it's just iu with may lots of big schools will look but I do agree he is a risk. I'd much rather get a proven coach.

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[southernindianahoosier2 902]

1 minute ago, Hornsby said:

I don't think it's just iu with may lots of big schools will look but I do agree he is a risk. I'd much rather get a proven coach.

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
 

We Tried getting a proven coach last time and we ended up getting a 63yr old who’d never coached college basketball before in his life. Scared money don’t make money 

[TheWatShot 13,651]

The phrase "proven coach" gets thrown around a lot. Even a proven coach could fail here. You have to consider how that coach fits here as well. Archie Miller was a horrible fit. It wasn't even so much his personality; he just didn't view this job as anything more than a promotion. 

 

Chris Beard seems to be the poster-coach for "proven." His comments about trying to abstain from drinking for an entire season make me think he wouldn't be a good fit here. This job is incredibly stressful. We saw what it did to Crean (panic attack after a Big Ten tourney loss) and Miller (lost a noticeable amount of weight while he was here and claimed he was on a diet). It would no doubt be stressful for Beard. What do alcoholics do when they're stressed? They drink, often excessively, and it rarely ends well. 

 

Our next hire is going to be a gamble no matter who it is. 

[IUCrazy2 2,344]

8 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Looked through it. Man, you really, really have to dig down though. Like really far before I would find a guy that would feel like this is a better situation for minutes. Again, could have been sold harder but much further down that list. 
 

Looking back over that thought reminded me of how many names were attempted. Think that list is way longer than the average fan realizes.

Then that is a recruiting failure.  We have at least 3 guys on staff whose main contribution, by far, is supposed to be recruiting.  If you strike out so many times that you can't even bring in one dude (allegedly, I don't know you from Adam and this is only going by what you are selling here), then you suck at your job.  We apparently had 3 dudes that sucked at their job. All these recruiters have gone on after that to land ONE incoming recruit from the 2024 class and since we are going by hearsay, they are also currently in the process of fumbling away a really good in state 2025 class.

I start saving money for the buyout this year.  Armond Hill is gone.  I am not padding retirement for a guy who doesn't add any value.  Woody may think he does and if so, Woody could pay him out of his own $4 million salary.  I would send a few of the other assistants packing as well.  Everybody in this program rested on their laurels after two lackluster tournament appearances and it shows.

[IUCrazy2 2,344]

8 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

2 thoughts - will just keep it here. Not sure best thread anyway.

yes, the schedule thing was really bad idea. Changes everything. 
Looked over that again the other night. There are 4 teams above IU in Net from Big Ten they have beat. Iowa 65, OSU 71, Maryland 81, Minn 85. All 4 have same or worse record than IU. All 4 played a much worse non-conn. IU replaces 2 of the big dog games with 2 mid majors or even lower. 2 more wins changes a lot with where things stand right now. Those teams are not better than IU but NET says so. Problem is it went from you are rewarded for a tough schedule to pound cupcakes quick. Doesn’t even matter much if they are 352 at this point. Not fully but you get it. 

Not related, but importance of roster construction being older and yes, ours is young by choice and some bad decisions but it matters more than ever. Some might not love it but portal has been the way. 

 

The Q1 losses weren't the problem.  The problem was we were in effect squeaking by the cupcakes.  You have to blow them out.  That is the difference between us and the teams above us.  With how poorly we were playing to start the year, you would just be replacing 20 point losses to UConn with 10 point losses to a Q2 team.  That does nothing to move the needle.

Our problem is that it is a poorly constructed roster, being poorly coached, in a system that is poorly designed for today's college basketball.

And you keep bringing up that you need seniors to win when we have a habit of running off kids after two years when they don't develop quick enough.  How many people are ready to throw Banks, Gunn, and Cupps in the trash already?  And this really gets to my point with opinions like yours to keep Woodson next year.  It is year 4 and you are talking about overhauling the entire team.  And then at this point next year in the highly likely event that we are a bubble team at best, you can roll out your charts and say, "See, we just need to get older."  Well the whole recruitment plan has been specifically designed to not do that.  You do that by recruiting and developing Freshamn to Seniors.  We have 1 ******* freshman currently signed.  Anyone we add (outside of another center who is a younger clone of another guy on the team) at this point is going to be a last minute scramble to try and get a freshman that didn't originally pick us.  Guys like Mgbako who are clearly eyeing not ever being a senior.

You implement the build from day one with a 62 year old coach.  He doesn't have time to dick around.  Yet here we will be in Year 4 basically saying, "Nevermind those first 3 years, I finally got it figured out now..." Now?  You have if figured out now Mr. 66 year old NBA expert who ignored or ran off all the college experience I put with you so you didn't have to learn these lessons in this manner because your age doesn't allow for that?  Awesome.  Glad you finally know what to do.

That stupid bull **** is why this fan base is so perpetually irritated.  You constantly have a program that pisses down your back and tells you it is raining.  I hope to God Woodson gets it figured out because we are in real danger of having our main rival coming in as reigning national Champs next year while we are in the midst of our 4th rebuild since 2008 with a coach who is on his second complete rebuild in 4 years.

[Chris007 43,567]

12 hours ago, IU - Kaulie said:

We will know when @Chris007 tells us ha lol.

It's not something we're going to have to worry about till this time next season. As of right now, he's getting next year. He's going to get a chance to improve through the portal. The only way I see us making a change is if we would happen to go 0-8 to finish the season. 

[Redleader 165]

8 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

 

 

That website also claims that Malik Reneau is not in our best 2, 3, 4, or 5 man lineup.  That’s some clown show analysis.

[Chris007 43,567]

11 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Exactly, can’t have both sides of this argument.

He said exactly what most here would expect him to say. You can say now, in retro spec, he should have gave them both walking papers. Can imagine now if the story was X and Trey are both going to the portal. All kinds of narratives and to your point terrible message to incoming and current players. 
 

You can do that when you are Kansas. UK etc. can’t with where IU is. This is why the portal solves all crowd needs to slow down. You can still hate Woody and realize this is way more complex that being a fantasy football GM. 

The problem with saying you have to earn your spot is once you get that spot, you will never lose it because Woodson sticks with the same starting lineup every game. The guy refuses to change anything

[JSHoosier 19,826]

Woodson said he was supposed to bridge the gap, now we're going into year 4 needing a rebuild because of how badly his staff did. And we're supposed to believe the same staff that f-ed up that thoroughly is capable of fixing it....