* Empire Classic * Indiana vs. UCONN Sunday 11/19/2023 1 pm ESPN @MSG

[Hornsby 1,651]

I’m old, my memory isn’t what it used to be!  Actually, I on purposely developed amnesia when it came to him but honestly he played better than Mgbako has so far, I would rate him a 3-star and Mgbako a 2 star, lol.

How in the world was MM ranked #10 in the country?

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[Josh 12,557]

13 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Can I ask a question? 

why is it some people can beat on the same point like MM sucks over and over again in replies to me but if I use facts, data and reason in response, it gets called out to move on?  We have heard enough. Is this not what this board is for? Post opinions and thoughts on the team? 

And no, I actually 100% am not trying to win an argument and I know that I won’t change minds of certain people. Not that thick headed. I am also not trying to win over other posters, not going to lose sleep over it. 

I am posting another side of this rather than the last 10 post saying the guy should pretty much give up basketball when he isn’t even our biggest issue. Believe it, read it, don’t but nope, not trying to win a message board ribbon. 

You truly have no self awareness at all

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,943]

How in the world was MM ranked #10 in the country?

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Skills(shooting) and size. You can see it. I can see it.

He’s a freshman and he’s not comfortable. He’s never had to play defense. He isn’t adapting well so far. I can see moments he tried to lock in but seconds later he’ll make a mistake. On offense, he just doesn’t know his role and the few shots he’s taken mostly aren’t falling. He needs to play like Grady Dick did last year at Kansas. That is what IU needs him to be. He should watch 20 hours of Gradey Dick at Kansas. But he doesn’t shoot it as well as GD yet so, we are in some in-between world of hurt. He’s not too athletic. He doesn’t drive and finish well yet. I don’t think playing him at the 4 is a real option. Reneau and Ware must play a lot of minutes. Ugh.


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[Uspshoosier 45,047]

15 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

why is it some people can beat on the same point like MM sucks over and over again in replies to me

Because most of them replies are not directly to you meaning they didn’t go out of their way to quote you they just posted their opinion on a player whether it was right or wrong and it seems you are going out of your way to quote some of these people and drive home your point or difference of opinion when they didn’t even quote you.   Now at the end of the day it’s a free message board and you don’t have to move on from anything you can argue with whoever you want.  Just different posting styles I guess.    I see plenty of posts I disagree with or think is wrong but if I see it’s not going anywhere I cut bait and move on to the next pointless free message board argument 

[Golfman25 5,004]

36 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Even today vs game 1 is night and day. Ant Wright has been good about showing both positive and negative and growth broken down.

The whole team has been bad at D outside of a couple of guys. He is being singled out and there are guys way, way worse.

Trey fools fans with his frantic effort but he has to do that because he is out of position and blown by easy.  He is also a freaking senior and MM is a freshman, yet people want his head. 

Not believing in analytics is fine but then again, KenPom, Torvik, BPI etc have zero value as team metrics as well as they are all modeled similar. 

I really do wish we would move Malik to 5 when Ware goes out, MM to 4 and Trey to 3 when CJ comes in. He would be way better there. There are ways to shorten this rotation and keep the likes of Walker off the floor. 

How about this.  Stats don’t matter until January.  Right now the sample size is too small to make them relevant.  You would have learned this in stats class. 

[MikeRoberts 6,920]

34 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Balanced reply. Appreciate it.

Trey is a mess. Please do look at what I posted above here with the numbers. He is worst rated defender and it got even worse today after that data hit. He causes have the issues to for others but it was with him. He pulls guys out to jump at 3pt shooters to cover for him which also means we are out of rebounding position. To be far, he needs to play the 3 and not 2 but here we are. 

A player has to bring something to the table, scoring, defending, rebounding, assists… something. MM hasn’t really done any of those

[Golfman25 5,004]

8 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Skills(shooting) and size. You can see it. I can see it.

He’s a freshman and he’s not comfortable. He’s never had to play defense. He isn’t adapting well so far. I can see moments he tried to lock in but seconds later he’ll make a mistake. On offense, he just doesn’t know his role and the few shots he’s taken mostly aren’t falling. He needs to play like Grady Dick did last year at Kansas. That is what IU needs him to be. He should watch 20 hours of Gradey Dick at Kansas. But he doesn’t shoot it as well as GD yet so, we are in some in-between world of hurt. He’s not too athletic. He doesn’t drive and finish well yet. I don’t think playing him at the 4 is a real option. Reneau and Ware must play a lot of minutes. Ugh.


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Moneyball rule:  If he can shoot, why doesn’t he shoot good?

[Home Jersey 6,598]

 I was sitting very close to the action and there were at least two instances where XJ was way late telling MM whether to switch or stay on screens in the post. Another instance with Trey on the wing. MM does not know the scheme and needs to be guided, but it's tough for our backcourt to play defense themselves + think about where MM specifically needs to be on the court. The backcourt is already working with their own talent disparity. 

He is uncomfortable on offense and a mess on defense. The thing is, if this team is going to have upside and make any noise in March, he's got to be able to contribute. So I think you have to let him keep taking his lumps and hope it works out. Freshman hump is bigger for some than others. It's concerning but it's only been 4/5 games tomorrow.

Let's see how things look in mid January... the schedule is pretty tough from here on out. Hopefully that pays off come B10 play.

[cthomas 6,316]

19 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Can I ask a question? 

why is it some people can beat on the same point like MM sucks over and over again in replies to me but if I use facts, data and reason in response, it gets called out to move on?  We have heard enough. Is this not what this board is for? Post opinions and thoughts on the team? 

And no, I actually 100% am not trying to win an argument and I know that I won’t change minds of certain people. Not that thick headed. I am also not trying to win over other posters, not going to lose sleep over it. 

I am posting another side of this rather than the last 10 post saying the guy should pretty much give up basketball when he isn’t even our biggest issue. Believe it, read it, don’t but nope, not trying to win a message board ribbon. 

This team has issues. It also has talent. Maybe not the right talent in the right places, but the coaches get paid to make it work. I appreciate what you bring to the discussion and it get what you mean when you talk about bias. I've lived here a long time. Dance around the issue all you want, but this isn't really the place to air social problems. The fanbase is what is. I think we sometimes forget how much pressure is on these players. We dissect everything they do on and off the court. At their age, I'm no sure I could have lived under that microscope. How about we just be a little more supportive and let the staff deal with the play on the court. Or, just ignore everything I just said.

 

 

 

[Muskie for three 307]

If  IU could of just got that Luke Brown kid all their  problems would of been  solved .

[MikeRoberts 6,920]

1 minute ago, Muskie for three said:

If  IU could have just got that Luke Brown kid all their  problems would have been  solved .

We have/had a scholarship open and need a guard/shooter so yeah, wouldn’t have been a bad flyer

[Josh 12,557]

18 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

oh, I am fully aware of how I am perceived. I just decided to call it out like I get called out.  
 

When you're aware of how others perceive you but you fight back against it and call everybody else out, then you're not self aware

[IUFAN1976 2,782]

43 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

How in the world was MM ranked #10 in the country?

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I think the people who does the rankings are mentally insane, I think they have hung out with Timothy Leary once to often!

[go iu bb 5,516]

5 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

That isn’t how player analytics on defense or offense works. This isn’t like KenPom team ranking that needs time to normalize because teams start with some built in data. You can also look at individual games and in each one, Trey is our worst defender. 

This has nothing to do with stats class but thanks for the shot. 

You remind me of some posters on other boards who like to argue and argue and argue. What other user names have you posted under? 

[MikeRoberts 6,920]

46 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I know we don’t see eye to eye. That much is clear haha but can you explain to me how you read this and come away with that conclusion yet think Cupps is better or that Trey isn’t a massive liability? You said MM was 9th or 10th on the team.  

No problem.
 

Mgbako was bought to play a starting role and be one of the best on the team and we play 3 bigs because of him and this expectation from the staff. This makes us slow and congested on offense and slow and clueless on defense.

look at the Torvik ratings that you like to use, Trey is one of our best players. Is he perfect, no, he needs to be better as does everyone but he is at or near the top on the team in just about every offensive category. MM hasn’t been good at anything. Really, without trying to compare him to anyone other than himself, what has he done well?

Cupps and Gunn are role players and on a good team don’t play much at all, unfortunately we need them. Cupps is 4 games in and Gunn is like 40 games in. Eye test and stats show Gunn couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn with his shooting. There is enough of a sample to say that. Jury is still out on Cupps.

 

[Hoosier987 1,062]

1 hour ago, Home Jersey said:

 I was sitting very close to the action and there were at least two instances where XJ was way late telling MM whether to switch or stay on screens in the post. Another instance with Trey on the wing. MM does not know the scheme and needs to be guided, but it's tough for our backcourt to play defense themselves + think about where MM specifically needs to be on the court. The backcourt is already working with their own talent disparity. 

He is uncomfortable on offense and a mess on defense. The thing is, if this team is going to have upside and make any noise in March, he's got to be able to contribute. So I think you have to let him keep taking his lumps and hope it works out. Freshman hump is bigger for some than others. It's concerning but it's only been 4/5 games tomorrow.

Let's see how things look in mid January... the schedule is pretty tough from here on out. Hopefully that pays off come B10 play.

Well said. For where we want this team to be, MM’s development is a huge factor…frankly, his ceiling may be the highest out of anyone…which makes our ceiling that much higher. I’m not prepared to call MM another Lander after 4 games…for one thing MM has the build, Lander didn’t. I’m still optimistic MM finds his footing. 

[monskisprodigy 1,814]

A non MM post. I continue to be perplexed by Leal…I’d love to see a practice and how he plays to be earning zero minutes. Hell, he didn’t even get in for the garbage minutes at the end of the game against their walk ons. 

I understand he has his limitation and when I watched him in HS I knew he wasn’t going to be a big time player for us…but I thought he’d at least contribute in limited minutes and grow into a role by his senior year. 

I know we’ve debated this in other threads, but Heck, at this point why not toss him out there for 5-6 minutes to see what he can do. In his limited action he’s been safe with the ball, won’t wow anyone defensively, but maybe can knock down a spot up 3 here and there and provide some energy/hustle. 

I know I’m grasping for straws guys…but as a former Mr. Basketball, I didn’t see him being glued to the bench the entirety of his career. 

Hard not to think that Him plus the open scholarship could have been used to fill some serious needs.

[Hornsby 1,651]

Well said. For where we want this team to be, MM’s development is a huge factor…frankly, his ceiling may be the highest out of anyone…which makes our ceiling that much higher. I’m not prepared to call MM another Lander after 4 games…for one thing MM has the build, Lander didn’t. I’m still optimistic MM finds his footing. 

Mm may figure it out I'm just perplexed we could get find one portal guard better than gunn.

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[Muskie for three 307]

3 minutes ago, monskisprodigy said:

A non MM post. I continue to be perplexed by Leal…I’d love to see a practice and how he plays to be earning zero minutes. Hell, he didn’t even get in for the garbage minutes at the end of the game against their walk ons. 

I understand he has his limitation and when I watched him in HS I knew he wasn’t going to be a big time player for us…but I thought he’d at least contribute in limited minutes and grow into a role by his senior year. 

Heck, At this point why not toss him out there for 5-6 minutes to see what he can do. In his limited action he’s been safe with the ball, won’t wow anyone defensively, but maybe can knock down a spot up 3 here and there and provide some energy/hustle. 

I know I’m grasping for straws guys…but as a former Mr. Basketball, I didn’t see him being glued to the bench the entirety of his career. 

Hard not to think that Him plus the open scholarship could have been used to fill some serious needs.

He is going  to sell lots of houses with that Mr bball / IU player moniker .Seems real happy in his role. Along with not a peep out of his camp about playing on the interwebs. If you think about it it's freaking genius . Sticking with it going to pay off . 

[ray 1,563]

I had to watch the game late, but I'm seeing it now as it comes to an end for me. I'm sure it's been discussed, but Johnson for UConn is allowed to jump onto the back of Sparks (literally) and that is no longer called an "over the back" foul? I just want to know the new rules. 

Thank you.