General Coach Candidate News

[Hornsby 1,931]

This isn't a guy I would want for our next coach but I am posing the question. How did Woodson get hired over Dane fife? Let's leave the rumors of why he was fired out for the moment. He did a pretty darn good job at ipfw then went and sat on the bench behind 1 of the very best coaches in the game! Just talking qualifications wise fife seems like the safer hire. I get alot goes into coaching hires. My guess is he probably would have been good which is why iu went with the old nba guy lol.

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Buckner. This was his hire.

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[Hornsby 1,931]

Find a way to make the tournament and 90% of this goes away. Maybe more, but this isn’t a tournament so we have different things to worry about.


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True but this team isn't sniffing the tourney. We would probably need to finish 9-3 or 8-4 worst case. Now our best player is in the dreaded bot so who knows how long he is out.

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[coonhounds 8,951]

He had a losing record at IPFW - feel like many people think he lit it up. He was then just an assistant. 
The other was an NBA head coach and many more seasons. Not saying he was “qualified” but not even close to Fife. 
 

Yes but I believe he started when ipfw was first moved to division 1. I would have to look but I felt like he got them respectable.

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[Uspshoosier 45,686]

8 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

The HC can’t be in all places at once. Assistants need to pull him in when it is time. 

No he can’t but it’s just a different approach to recruiting in college than the normal.   These guys get a certain amount of days to be out on the recruiting and a certain amount of visits per recruit.  I get his approach I just don’t agree with it.   He wants to be the closer and have his assistants do most the heavy lifting and get kids on campus so he can close.   That approach can work and will work in certain recruitments however for most long recruitments especially in-state recruitments the head coach better be visible as much as the rules allowed.   If that means you go to a high school game after your own game you do it.   Head coaches need to be grinders that basically have no life besides coaching and recruiting.   Eat, Breathe, Sleep recruiting and your own team.    With the portal there are no months off anymore.  In my opinion I don’t think he has done that or wants to do that.  Just my opinion though 

[Hornsby 1,931]

Seems like you should be placing some huge money bets against IU - lot of guys really sure of these next 12 games and the outcome :)

I don't gamble. Just going off what I currently have seen on the court.

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[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,773]

I try to follow as many prospects as I can especially Indiana kids.  I don't think a week goes by that Izzo, Painter, Holtman aren't getting their ugly mugs pictured in an Indiana gym watching a kid.  The visibility of the HC is important.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

Seems like you should be placing some huge money bets against IU - lot of guys really sure of these next 12 games and the outcome :)

That’s why there is a money line. We will be Underdogs in many of them. The ones we will win will be at home. We are pretty much terrible and have been the entire season. Not sure what you see that gives you hope besides a whim.

This team has done nothing to garner any respect. And Woody even moreso.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

No he can’t but it’s just a different approach to recruiting in college than the normal.   These guys get a certain amount of days to be out on the recruiting and a certain amount of visits per recruit.  I get his approach I just don’t agree with it.   He wants to be the closer and have his assistants do most the heavy lifting and get kids on campus so he can close.   That approach can work and will work in certain recruitments however for most long recruitments especially in-state recruitments the head coach better be visible as much as the rules allowed.   If that means you go to a high school game after your own game you do it.   Head coaches need to be grinders that basically have no life besides coaching and recruiting.   Eat, Breathe, Sleep recruiting and your own team.    With the portal there are no months off anymore.  In my opinion I don’t think he has done that or wants to do that.  Just my opinion though 

The crazy thing is, recruiting has probably been his best attribute as far as acquiring perceived “talent”.

But they’ve neglected IQ, shooting, hustle, winning intangibles, fundamentals.

No dogs on this team either. Reneau maybe. Galloway to some extent. Soft team mentally.

He doesn’t really know what he wants. He wants a bunch of size even though that size doesn’t play to its size. Lol. What a debacle. We don’t even try to offensive rebound with a top 5 sized team in the country.


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[Stuhoo 80,877]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I’m not exactly confident in this team, but it aint over until the fat lady sings 

:)

Martha?

[Hoosier987 1,170]

4 hours ago, HoosierTrav said:

This is a fireable offense IMHO. If you aren’t up to the task to show up for one of the biggest responsibilities you have as a coach, then step aside. Not landing kids that want to come here (Sisley and Mullins) and potentially losing them to in league rivals is infuriating. 
 

Gotta say Chris…..really didn’t want to see that today. Lol.
 

 

Too busy smoking cigars and watching tv lol.

[lillurk 3,756]

I get the impulse to be leery of low- and mid-major coaches making the step up but I think Schertz and May are both worth a long look. I think a deeper, more nuanced evaluation of those type of candidates typically gives you a good idea of what job is a good match, what to expect when they level up, etc.

To give an example that probably hits too close to home, when we hired Miller I was worried that too much of his case for the job rested on 1) name/family recognition, 2) one single tournament run that hinged on winning some close ones. I didn’t even consider one of the issues we’ve seen since, which is that Dayton’s a darn good program across multiple coaches. But he hadn’t really popped on efficiency metrics, with the exception of one really good defense.

And, well, we all know how that went. He didn’t really have anything that said he’d scale up well, and he moved up right about the time teams started bombing more 3s and really exposing pack line defenses.

Anyway, I’ve got a note outlining why May’s a really good candidate for SOME high major job, but idk if anyone wants to read that right now.

[JSHoosier 20,232]

1 minute ago, lillurk said:

I get the impulse to be leery of low- and mid-major coaches making the step up but I think Schertz and May are both worth a long look. I think a deeper, more nuanced evaluation of those type of candidates typically gives you a good idea of what job is a good match, what to expect when they level up, etc.

To give an example that probably hits too close to home, when we hired Miller I was worried that too much of his case for the job rested on 1) name/family recognition, 2) one single tournament run that hinged on winning some close ones. I didn’t even consider one of the issues we’ve seen since, which is that Dayton’s a darn good program across multiple coaches. But he hadn’t really popped on efficiency metrics, with the exception of one really good defense.

And, well, we all know how that went. He didn’t really have anything that said he’d scale up well, and he moved up right about the time teams started bombing more 3s and really exposing pack line defenses.

Anyway, I’ve got a note outlining why May’s a really good candidate for SOME high major job, but idk if anyone wants to read that right now.

You could say the same about Crean in regards to one tournament run. Aside from that Final Four he was pretty mediocre at Marquette, no appearances past the round of 32 and 50/50 if he made the tourney at all plus no top 4 finishes in a major conference.

[Uspshoosier 45,686]

17 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

That’s why there is a money line. We will be Underdogs in many of them. The ones we will win will be at home. We are pretty much terrible and have been the entire season. Not sure what you see that gives you hope besides a whim.

This team has done nothing to garner any respect. And Woody even moreso.


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Only hope people should have is that after the Illinois game the schedule gets way easier than it has been.    IU has shown they can’t compete with top level teams by getting blown out by 2 projected 1 seeds,  getting blown out by a projected 2 seed and losing a close one to another projected 2 seed.  Got blown out by a projected 3 seed.  And has road game against another projected 3 or 4 seed.   After Illinois at least they will play a bunch of teams that are bubble teams or non tourney teams and then home games against teams that are projected 7-10 seeds.    IU is at best a borderline bubble team and at worst not even a NIT team.  IUs post season starts with Iowa at home.   
 

[lillurk 3,756]

4 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

You could say the same about Crean in regards to one tournament run. Aside from that Final Four he was pretty mediocre at Marquette, no appearances past the round of 32 and 50/50 if he made the tourney at all plus no top 4 finishes in a major conference.

Yes, although Crean had like 6 Kenpom finishes higher than any of Archie’s, his tournament run was not just all coinflips, and he’d pretty consistently put together elite (or nearly elite) offenses.

And the proof is kinda in the pudding. Say what you will about Crean but his IU career is so far clear of Archie it isn’t even a discussion.

[Hornsby 1,931]

Yes, although Crean had like 6 Kenpom finishes higher than any of Archie’s, his tournament run was not just all coinflips, and he’d pretty consistently put together elite (or nearly elite) offenses.
And the proof is kinda in the pudding. Say what you will about Crean but his IU career is so far clear of Archie it isn’t even a discussion.

Crean did have a bit of bad luck with injuries. Creek. Blackmon. If OG didn't go out the last season I am guessing they would have done much better and crean may not have been fired that year.

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[Dillion 347]

There are some HCs (not just Woody) who very much recruit this way. They don’t get involved until later and/or the assistant tells them they need to. 
Not saying this is right or wrong but it isn’t only Woody going about it this way.  Maybe now is that time and Walsh or whomever needs to communicate that?  

Not going to say much more out of respect of the family and not wanting to give away things I’ve been told because I respect their trust but not the case in this instance is all I’ll say. This also doesn’t mean that he won’t end up at IU I have no clue and I don’t think this recruit has a clue yet either or he would be committed somewhere already. It’s also not me advocating for or against Woodson just addressing the worries that have been brought up about recruiting and I know some of those worries are true and resonate with recruit’s.


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[HoosierTrav 7,889]

2 hours ago, Scotty R said:

There have been plenty of HOF coaches that went from mid major to their big time job 

RMK Army to IU

Coach K Army to Duke

Calhoun Northeastern to UCONN

Roy Williams Assistant at UNC to Kansas

Boheim Assistant at Syracuse to HC at Syracuse .

Keady W. Kentucky to Purdue

I am sure there are a lot more but that is off the top of my head

Tommy Lloyd was an assistant at Gonzaga. Now he’s Arizona’s head coach. 

[DLG3 1,067]

I get the impulse to be leery of low- and mid-major coaches making the step up but I think Schertz and May are both worth a long look. I think a deeper, more nuanced evaluation of those type of candidates typically gives you a good idea of what job is a good match, what to expect when they level up, etc.
To give an example that probably hits too close to home, when we hired Miller I was worried that too much of his case for the job rested on 1) name/family recognition, 2) one single tournament run that hinged on winning some close ones. I didn’t even consider one of the issues we’ve seen since, which is that Dayton’s a darn good program across multiple coaches. But he hadn’t really popped on efficiency metrics, with the exception of one really good defense.
And, well, we all know how that went. He didn’t really have anything that said he’d scale up well, and he moved up right about the time teams started bombing more 3s and really exposing pack line defenses.
Anyway, I’ve got a note outlining why May’s a really good candidate for SOME high major job, but idk if anyone wants to read that right now.

I would like to read your note about May. I’m legitimately curious about how good of a fit he would be at IU. I’m pretty biased towards him and find him so easy to root for because we went to the same school, I know some of his family, and I just generally really like the style of basketball they play at FAU. All that said, I’m torn on how he would fit at IU. My gut says he’s the kind of guy that is a rare breed and would find some level of success anywhere. But Archie has me gun-shy.


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[southernindianahoosier2 902]

1 hour ago, lillurk said:

I get the impulse to be leery of low- and mid-major coaches making the step up but I think Schertz and May are both worth a long look. I think a deeper, more nuanced evaluation of those type of candidates typically gives you a good idea of what job is a good match, what to expect when they level up, etc.

To give an example that probably hits too close to home, when we hired Miller I was worried that too much of his case for the job rested on 1) name/family recognition, 2) one single tournament run that hinged on winning some close ones. I didn’t even consider one of the issues we’ve seen since, which is that Dayton’s a darn good program across multiple coaches. But he hadn’t really popped on efficiency metrics, with the exception of one really good defense.

And, well, we all know how that went. He didn’t really have anything that said he’d scale up well, and he moved up right about the time teams started bombing more 3s and really exposing pack line defenses.

Anyway, I’ve got a note outlining why May’s a really good candidate for SOME high major job, but idk if anyone wants to read that right now.

To add to this: Archie should have never even been considered for the IU role. Full stop. it wasn't that it was a risk and he didn't pan out.

Call IU a fishbowl, and because it is, it requires a coach who has an EGO someone who wants the attention on him. Coach K, Cal, Roy, Knight, Beard, Pitino, all with big ego's that love the limelight.... Archie is the antithesis of that.

Dusty May has been on podcasts, youtubes, etc and he has a great personality. Would it translate to P5? Based on what I'm seeing, yes, would it translate to a fishbowl? Also based on what I'm seeing, yes.... and the metrics back it up... Shaka's FF run his team was in the 50's in Kenpom, with Brad Stevens first NCG he was 12th. Dusty May's  team last year 17th, and this year 26th.... The best team Archie had had prior to Indiana was 39th.

Just food for thought

[lillurk 3,756]

30 minutes ago, DLG3 said:

I would like to read your note about May. I’m legitimately curious about how good of a fit he would be at IU. I’m pretty biased towards him and find him so easy to root for because we went to the same school, I know some of his family, and I just generally really like the style of basketball they play at FAU. All that said, I’m torn on how he would fit at IU. My gut says he’s the kind of guy that is a rare breed and would find some level of success anywhere. But Archie has me gun-shy.


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Let me give it an edit and I’ll get it posted.