General Coach Candidate News

[Dillion 410]

There are some HCs (not just Woody) who very much recruit this way. They don’t get involved until later and/or the assistant tells them they need to. 
Not saying this is right or wrong but it isn’t only Woody going about it this way.  Maybe now is that time and Walsh or whomever needs to communicate that?  

Not going to say much more out of respect of the family and not wanting to give away things I’ve been told because I respect their trust but not the case in this instance is all I’ll say. This also doesn’t mean that he won’t end up at IU I have no clue and I don’t think this recruit has a clue yet either or he would be committed somewhere already. It’s also not me advocating for or against Woodson just addressing the worries that have been brought up about recruiting and I know some of those worries are true and resonate with recruit’s.


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[HoosierTrav 8,335]

2 hours ago, Scotty R said:

There have been plenty of HOF coaches that went from mid major to their big time job 

RMK Army to IU

Coach K Army to Duke

Calhoun Northeastern to UCONN

Roy Williams Assistant at UNC to Kansas

Boheim Assistant at Syracuse to HC at Syracuse .

Keady W. Kentucky to Purdue

I am sure there are a lot more but that is off the top of my head

Tommy Lloyd was an assistant at Gonzaga. Now he’s Arizona’s head coach. 

[DLG3 1,188]

I get the impulse to be leery of low- and mid-major coaches making the step up but I think Schertz and May are both worth a long look. I think a deeper, more nuanced evaluation of those type of candidates typically gives you a good idea of what job is a good match, what to expect when they level up, etc.
To give an example that probably hits too close to home, when we hired Miller I was worried that too much of his case for the job rested on 1) name/family recognition, 2) one single tournament run that hinged on winning some close ones. I didn’t even consider one of the issues we’ve seen since, which is that Dayton’s a darn good program across multiple coaches. But he hadn’t really popped on efficiency metrics, with the exception of one really good defense.
And, well, we all know how that went. He didn’t really have anything that said he’d scale up well, and he moved up right about the time teams started bombing more 3s and really exposing pack line defenses.
Anyway, I’ve got a note outlining why May’s a really good candidate for SOME high major job, but idk if anyone wants to read that right now.

I would like to read your note about May. I’m legitimately curious about how good of a fit he would be at IU. I’m pretty biased towards him and find him so easy to root for because we went to the same school, I know some of his family, and I just generally really like the style of basketball they play at FAU. All that said, I’m torn on how he would fit at IU. My gut says he’s the kind of guy that is a rare breed and would find some level of success anywhere. But Archie has me gun-shy.


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[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

1 hour ago, lillurk said:

I get the impulse to be leery of low- and mid-major coaches making the step up but I think Schertz and May are both worth a long look. I think a deeper, more nuanced evaluation of those type of candidates typically gives you a good idea of what job is a good match, what to expect when they level up, etc.

To give an example that probably hits too close to home, when we hired Miller I was worried that too much of his case for the job rested on 1) name/family recognition, 2) one single tournament run that hinged on winning some close ones. I didn’t even consider one of the issues we’ve seen since, which is that Dayton’s a darn good program across multiple coaches. But he hadn’t really popped on efficiency metrics, with the exception of one really good defense.

And, well, we all know how that went. He didn’t really have anything that said he’d scale up well, and he moved up right about the time teams started bombing more 3s and really exposing pack line defenses.

Anyway, I’ve got a note outlining why May’s a really good candidate for SOME high major job, but idk if anyone wants to read that right now.

To add to this: Archie should have never even been considered for the IU role. Full stop. it wasn't that it was a risk and he didn't pan out.

Call IU a fishbowl, and because it is, it requires a coach who has an EGO someone who wants the attention on him. Coach K, Cal, Roy, Knight, Beard, Pitino, all with big ego's that love the limelight.... Archie is the antithesis of that.

Dusty May has been on podcasts, youtubes, etc and he has a great personality. Would it translate to P5? Based on what I'm seeing, yes, would it translate to a fishbowl? Also based on what I'm seeing, yes.... and the metrics back it up... Shaka's FF run his team was in the 50's in Kenpom, with Brad Stevens first NCG he was 12th. Dusty May's  team last year 17th, and this year 26th.... The best team Archie had had prior to Indiana was 39th.

Just food for thought

[lillurk 5,109]

30 minutes ago, DLG3 said:

I would like to read your note about May. I’m legitimately curious about how good of a fit he would be at IU. I’m pretty biased towards him and find him so easy to root for because we went to the same school, I know some of his family, and I just generally really like the style of basketball they play at FAU. All that said, I’m torn on how he would fit at IU. My gut says he’s the kind of guy that is a rare breed and would find some level of success anywhere. But Archie has me gun-shy.


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Let me give it an edit and I’ll get it posted.

[Redcamaro 283]

5 hours ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

We might have to throw a Brad Steven’s contract to get literally any caliber coach. I imagine we’d have to pay a premium given the IU dysfunction. 

First call that I would make would be Stevens...again!

[rcbowla 8,261]

He had a losing record at IPFW - feel like many people think he lit it up. He was then just an assistant. 
The other was an NBA head coach and many more seasons. Not saying he was “qualified” but not even close to Fife. 
 

IPFW had also just began playing D1 basketball. That may have been one of the hardest places to win while he was there.

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[southsidehoosier 5,149]

FAU has been D1 in basketball since 1992. Prior to May they had 5 winning seasons. Since May has been hired they’ve have 5 consecutive winning seasons and probably a 6th this year. May didn’t inherit a Dayton or Butler type of history.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,301]

7 hours ago, Scotty R said:

There have been plenty of HOF coaches that went from mid major to their big time job 

RMK Army to IU

Coach K Army to Duke

Calhoun Northeastern to UCONN

Roy Williams Assistant at UNC to Kansas

Boheim Assistant at Syracuse to HC at Syracuse .

Keady W. Kentucky to Purdue

I am sure there are a lot more but that is off the top of my head

Calipari went from Memphis to Kentucky

Bill Self went Tulsa to Illinois

Jay Wright went Hofstra to Villanova

[BleedCubbieBlue 1,959]

10 hours ago, Dillion said:

Not going to say much more out of respect of the family and not wanting to give away things I’ve been told because I respect their trust but not the case in this instance is all I’ll say. This also doesn’t mean that he won’t end up at IU I have no clue and I don’t think this recruit has a clue yet either or he would be committed somewhere already. It’s also not me advocating for or against Woodson just addressing the worries that have been brought up about recruiting and I know some of those worries are true and resonate with recruit’s.


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I often wonder what level of recruitment these high school kids are actually looking for from the head coach. Do they expect multiple visits or are they looking for more contact? What makes them "feel the love"? Does a text message from the head coach congratulating a player after a good game suffice or do they actually need to show up for the games?

[str8baller 7,475]

4 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Calipari went from Memphis to Kentucky

Bill Self went Tulsa to Illinois

Jay Wright went Hofstra to Villanova

It’s almost always the case. Very occasionally do coaches go from one successful power 5 conf team to another, and I can’t think of one off-hand that willingly left a championship program to go to another.  
 

There’s almost no way to make the job attractive enough for a current P5 conf coach, and certainly not someone like Scott Drew (who Baylor hired from Valpo).

[Muskie for three 307]

32 minutes ago, BleedCubbieBlue said:

I often wonder what level of recruitment these high school kids are actually looking for from the head coach. Do they expect multiple visits or are they looking for more contact? What makes them "feel the love"? Does a text message from the head coach congratulating a player after a good game suffice or do they actually need to show up for the games?

I'm a high level guy or my kid is . I want the stroke . I wanna be the belle of the ball . 

[Kentuckysucks 4,332]

40 minutes ago, str8baller said:

It’s almost always the case. Very occasionally do coaches go from one successful power 5 conf team to another, and I can’t think of one off-hand that willingly left a championship program to go to another.  
 

There’s almost no way to make the job attractive enough for a current P5 conf coach, and certainly not someone like Scott Drew (who Baylor hired from Valpo).

Cal did.  Roy did.  

[Chris007 62,510]

3 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Cal did.  Roy did.  

Tony Bennett went from Washington St to Virginia 

[Kentuckysucks 4,332]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Tony Bennett went from Washington St to Virginia 

Not sure WSU is a championship program.

[Chris007 62,510]

Just now, Kentuckysucks said:

Not sure WSU is a championship program.

True I was just saying he went from one P5 program to another P5

[JSHoosier 22,211]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Tony Bennett went from Washington St to Virginia 

Self went from Illinois to Kansas

[IUCrazy2 2,973]

14 hours ago, coonhounds said:

This isn't a guy I would want for our next coach but I am posing the question. How did Woodson get hired over Dane fife? Let's leave the rumors of why he was fired out for the moment. He did a pretty darn good job at ipfw then went and sat on the bench behind 1 of the very best coaches in the game! Just talking qualifications wise fife seems like the safer hire. I get alot goes into coaching hires. My guess is he probably would have been good which is why iu went with the old nba guy lol.

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I know people hate him but if it had to be an IU guy, Alford was the only guy ready to step into the job.  Is that the best hire?  Probably not, but if you are restricting yourself to only Indiana guys he was #1 and whoever was below him was a distant 2nd.

[8bucks 7,552]

1 hour ago, BleedCubbieBlue said:

I often wonder what level of recruitment these high school kids are actually looking for from the head coach. Do they expect multiple visits or are they looking for more contact? What makes them "feel the love"? Does a text message from the head coach congratulating a player after a good game suffice or do they actually need to show up for the games?

Certainly varies with each kid/parent but one thing that seems consistent with kids is how their peers think of them.  Having some big name coaches come to watch your game gets noticed by these peers.  Not being there gets noticed too.  It is kind of the proof of interest with many kids and if not them, then their parents.  A couple of my kids were recruited a lower level and while one liked to talk with the coaches after games the other did not.  Both noticed when coaches were there and that was often one of the first things they commented on after the game.

[Hoosierfan2017 24,880]

10 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Aware. I was replying to “he did a nice job there” - not really. For sure not enough to make him a qualified candidate for the IU job vs Woody. That was the question at hand. 
 

all this talk about potential hires down the road really has me thinking deep about what it will take to win here. I am not sure the average fan realizes how hard this job can be. Going to take a special coach. 

All the more reason to move on from Woodson now instead of waiting. If it’s “going to take a special coach” then Woodson very clearly isn’t the guy for the job.