General Coach Candidate News

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

They’re having a terrible year but last year they won their conference and the year before they made the elite eight. He’s not a long-term solution because he’s 61 years old, but we need someone to come in and make the job attractive again. I’m confident he’d be able to get IU turned around. He comes in, makes some tournament runs, and then retires. At that point we could go after whoever we want. I get why you guys don’t want him, but right now I honestly don’t know that we’d improve on Archie if we fired him after this year.

I get why people don’t want him, but is he worse than the other options we have? I don’t think IU is all that attractive of a job right now. Calipari could turn things around for us for the next hire.

1) Calipari isn't taking a pay cut to come here.
 
2) Our fans have thrown a ton of shade at him over the cancelled series and I doubt he's forgotten any of it. 

3) the first recruit he signs would be shredded by our compliance department and never play a minute at IU, ditto for most of his recruits.


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[Hoosierfan2017 20,935]

18 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

 

 

3) the first recruit he signs would be shredded by our compliance department and never play a minute at IU, ditto for most of his recruits.


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Unfortunately our compliance department is a huge reason why no matter who we hire, we’re fighting an uphill battle. It’s hard to succeed when your own compliance department is more interested in catching you slipping than it is cutting you a break. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,688]

5 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

I would have a hard time seeing the motivation for Beard who has 0 Midwest or Indiana ties (besides Knight) leaving the state of Texas.   He is from Texas and his family lives there.  He is already a top 5 paid coach in a place where he will get whatever he asks for.   Fantastic coach that in my opinion will stay in Texas regardless of what IU is willing to pay.  

Goodman and Dauster did about 11 minutes on their podcast about the current state of IU hoops. Nothing terrible fascinating about it but at one point they said who do you bring in if you’re gonna fire Archie and Goodman put Beard in the same category as Stevens in terms of reality. I think his comment was something like “no chance Brad Stevens is coming...you’re not getting Chris Beard to come to Bloomington.” No shocker at all to here that about Stevens, and I’m not that surprised to hear he thinks that about Beard, I was only surprised to hear how definitely he said it. Your post seems to support that. 

[HinnyHoosier 4,806]

If I’m being honest with myself, I’m liking the thought of Thad Matta more and more. It’s early as I have more or less finally thrown in the towel on the Archie Miller era after this latest failure to POTFB, so I may change my mind at some point. We’ll see.

 

 

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,182]

I get why people don’t want him, but is he worse than the other options we have? I don’t think IU is all that attractive of a job right now. Calipari could turn things around for us for the next hire.

Yes ! Yes he is

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[rcbowla 7,035]

I'm on board with Matta

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[Banksyrules 4,577]

What’s scary about this thread is that there has been no push back on its necessity.   I loved the Archie hiring, but the guy has refused to adjust and has stubbornly played the wrong players at crucial periods of the game. It’s sad but it is what it is.  I’m on board with Matta, but you have to at least try with Beard and Stevens. It would be professional malpractice not to try.   

Also welcome to hear any ways we can sabotage the compliance department.  Look it’s simple, in the world we live in, we can’t be a totally clean program and win big.   

[Feathery 4,005]

1 hour ago, Banksyrules said:

What’s scary about this thread is that there has been no push back on its necessity.   I loved the Archie hiring, but the guy has refused to adjust and has stubbornly played the wrong players at crucial periods of the game. It’s sad but it is what it is.  I’m on board with Matta, but you have to at least try with Beard and Stevens. It would be professional malpractice not to try.   

Also welcome to hear any ways we can sabotage the compliance department.  Look it’s simple, in the world we live in, we can’t be a totally clean program and win big.   

Ok here is all the pushback I can give. The best thing for everyone is for Archie to figure it out. Bring in some transfers this off-season to help offset the loss of TJD (assume he goes pro). Lander has the game slow down for him and he is competent at PG for next year. that’s all I’ve got for pushback. 
 

I do like Archie, but I only see 1 very narrow path for him to succeed here. I don’t think he has even found the entrance to that path. I’m looking at guys like Matta (if healthy), Oats, and Musselman. 
 

edit: If I’m Dolson, I sit down with Archie at the end of the season and tell him that he will not be getting an extension. And unless he wins 25+ and make the second weekend next year he will be fired. Encourage him to look around and find something this year. See if money is a motivator or if Archie is motivated by public perception and get out while it’s his choice. 

[JSHoosier 19,852]

With what I saw of Oats record I don't get the infatuation, and it's only a 5 year sample.

[Feathery 4,005]

56 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

With what I saw of Oats record I don't get the infatuation, and it's only a 5 year sample.

He was fantastic at Buffalo. 2 years to build and then 27 and 32 wins. Never finished lower than 3rd in conference at Buffalo and won the conference 2/4 years.  Left for Bama. Struggled in year 1. Now in year 2 at Bama he is currently 11-3 and undefeated in the SEC, in 1st place.  He plays modern basketball. Values the 3 or shot. Can coach both offense and defense. On Kenpom right now Bama is top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. That’s national championship caliber good when looking at historical mind and where they ranked offensively and defensively. He is from the Midwest as well, Wisconsin. He is also still young for a coach, 46 years old. 

[JSHoosier 19,852]

6 minutes ago, Feathery said:

He was fantastic at Buffalo. 2 years to build and then 27 and 32 wins. Never finished lower than 3rd in conference at Buffalo and won the conference 2/4 years.  Left for Bama. Struggled in year 1. Now in year 2 at Bama he is currently 11-3 and undefeated in the SEC, in 1st place.  He plays modern basketball. Values the 3 or shot. Can coach both offense and defense. On Kenpom right now Bama is top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. That’s national championship caliber good when looking at historical mind and where they ranked offensively and defensively. He is from the Midwest as well, Wisconsin. He is also still young for a coach, 46 years old. 

Let him sustain something at even the SEC first, until then pass.  What does his age have to do with the price of rice in China?  Miller is young too and his seat should be on fire.

[Feathery 4,005]

8 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Let him sustain something at even the SEC first, until then pass.  What does his age have to do with the price of rice in China?  Miller is young too and his seat should be on fire.

Age is important. He isn’t so young that he is inexperienced. He isn’t so old that he is going to struggle recruiting bc he will be retiring in a couple of years. IU isn’t firing Archie this year, but probably after another year. So if Oats does well the next 2 years, then he needs to be on a short list of candidates to be interviewed. 

[iuprof 16]

This what having high expectations of excellence looks like https://www.kvue.com/article/sports/ncaa/longhorns/tom-herman-fired-ut-texas-longhorns/269-b6c8de49-2cf9-4b88-86be-9c9eb9be11a6

Fired after 7-3 season and a bowl win. Total buyout (including staff) was reported as $25 million.

As a 81 grad (season ticket holder for 10 yrs.) and someone who has watched IU as a kid I'm ready to move on from Archie. If the admin. cared they would find the $. As many have said, I can hardly watch any more.

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[JSHoosier 19,852]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

Age is important. He isn’t so young that he is inexperienced. He isn’t so old that he is going to struggle recruiting bc he will be retiring in a couple of years. IU isn’t firing Archie this year, but probably after another year. So if Oats does well the next 2 years, then he needs to be on a short list of candidates to be interviewed. 

I'd call Beilein before Oats.  His "fantastic" job at Buffalo resulted in not getting past the second round; maybe if the comparison is getting paid 3+ mil to not have a tournament appearance in year 4.  If that's fantastic Crean should have been extended not fired.

I'd keep Miller before giving Oats a chance before he's actually shown something.

[AKHoosier 6,747]

Surprisingly, I don't hate the idea of Thad Matta.  He's recruited Indiana very well, is a B1G guy, a very good x's and o's coach, and most of all is proven.  I'd feel confident in his ability to at the very least, get us to the tournament every year.

I'd need to see more out of Nate Oats before getting excited about him, granted I do like what I see so far.  He took over a pretty good program from Hurley at Buffalo, but had to face some difficulty his first year after his two best players left the program.  It reminds me of how Archie did so well at Dayton despite defections and not having anyone on his roster taller than 6'6" for most of a season.

 

[Feathery 4,005]

20 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I'd call Beilein before Oats.  His "fantastic" job at Buffalo resulted in not getting past the second round; maybe if the comparison is getting paid 3+ mil to not have a tournament appearance in year 4.  If that's fantastic Crean should have been extended not fired.

I'd keep Miller before giving Oats a chance before he's actually shown something.

Love Beilien but he is done coaching. You can’t call players thugs in this day and be successful at a high level. 
 

so you expect Buffalo to make a run? Seriously, the NCAA is a crapshoot. We need consistent league success, which will lead to NCAA appearances and opportunities for a run. I don’t value the “hot” coach who makes a NCAA run. There have been way too many Archie Miller’s and John Groce’s that made hay in a tournament one time and got this great reputation. Success in league is what I want. Archie didn’t have that until his conference head an exodus of quality teams, which opened the way for him to beat lesser competition. He was average when his team was comparable to other teams in his conference before the realignment. 
 

my point on Oats is he could win the SEC this year and be a top SEC team next year and that is enough track record for me to pull the plug on Archie at a lower buyout and call Oats in for an interview. There are a few others I’d also interview as well. Then pick the best of that group. However, I think Dolson will go for a IU guy like Smart or Fife. Just need to make sure we have the correct assistants to support that type of move. It’s worked for Michigan, but the assistant coaches have helped pave the way there to help Howard transition. 

[Josh 12,569]

10 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

No, the two aren’t close. Yes, the “one teammate hitting another that didn’t really happen but it did” incident was bad. What was generally accepted while Sampson was here is nothing I want IU basketball to be associated with.


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Not trying to derail here...I LOVE that we're finally talking about replacing Archie Miller...but is it ok to expand on this quote now?  I know when the incident happened there were rumors of a different story than what was being reported.  It's been a few years now, what is that rumor?

[lillurk 3,738]

I think it’s fair to wish to have seen more from Oats. I’m a fan but the resume isn’t long yet. His best team lost to a national runner-up TTU in the second round.

I like that he attracts players, even to Buffalo, and plays a creative and modern offense. Tournament success will come. He’s made teams competitive at or above their historical water level in two or three years. If there’s any silver lining to the fact this coaching change may not happen until 2022, it’s that a guy like Oats may continue a good trajectory and give us more data before a change is made. 

[lillurk 3,738]

Narratives to be skeptical of under a new college basketball hire:

1. “His system takes years for players to learn” — red flag. If it’s true he’s running a bad system, but more likely it’s simply false and it’s a convenient excuse.

2. “Wait until he gets his guys” — coaches are always working around egos, guys who want more PT, etc. Make it work, that’s your job. Even if you’d prefer a type of personnel you didn’t inherit (say, bigs who shoot, or a real defensive anchor of a center), you can adapt. Will it mean your ceiling is lower? Maybe, but it shouldn’t mean you miss the tournament.

3. ”something something roster management” — in some ways Miller has been better than Crean here, but should he have fought to keep Clifton Moore? What was the deal with Jake Forrester? What did he see in Damezi over Aaron Henry? Why didn’t they offer Eric Hunter? And especially why did they carry an empty scholarship last year (this year too so far)? It’s fine to do it with a plan, like taking a mid year transfer. They didn’t do that last year and it’s leaving an asset unused. In my opinion that’s worse than oversigning if you know someone’s leaving.

4. Anything valuing defense over offense — a good defense is good but that’s the side of the ball you have less control over. Recruit and develop good offensive players, run a good system, coach good defense. In that order.

5. Look for early red flags, and whether they’re corrected. Under this regime the defense immediately gave up too many open 3s, should’ve switched more, hedged too hard. The offense couldn’t shoot. It took two or three years for Miller to adjust, and some of those are still issues. 

[Josh 12,569]

1 minute ago, lillurk said:

Narratives to be skeptical of under a new college basketball hire:

1. “His system takes years for players to learn” — red flag. If it’s true he’s running a bad system, but more likely it’s simply false and it’s a convenient excuse.

2. “Wait until he gets his guys” — coaches are always working around egos, guys who want more PT, etc. Make it work, that’s your job. Even if you’d prefer a type of personnel you didn’t inherit (say, bigs who shoot, or a real defensive anchor of a center), you can adapt. Will it mean your ceiling is lower? Maybe, but it shouldn’t mean you miss the tournament.

3. ”something something roster management” — in some ways Miller has been better than Crean here, but should he have fought to keep Clifton Moore? What was the deal with Jake Forrester? What did he see in Damezi over Aaron Henry? Why didn’t they offer Eric Hunter? And especially why did they carry an empty scholarship last year (this year too so far)? It’s fine to do it with a plan, like taking a mid year transfer. They didn’t do that last year and it’s leaving an asset unused. In my opinion that’s worse than oversigning if you know someone’s leaving.

4. Anything valuing defense over offense — a good defense is good but that’s the side of the ball you have less control over. Recruit and develop good offensive players, run a good system, coach good defense. In that order.

5. Look for early red flags, and whether they’re corrected. Under this regime the defense immediately gave up too many open 3s, should’ve switched more, hedged too hard. The offense couldn’t shoot. It took two or three years for Miller to adjust, and some of those are still issues. 

Nice!  Let me add...

6.  After getting blown out by Fort Wayne and Indiana State..."He doesn't have the talent he needs yet"   As if those teams had more talent