IU vs Michigan St Game Thread - 12:00PM ET on ESPN

[kreigh8 2,060]

6 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Here is what I don't get... Phinisee did literally nothing. Played 30 minutes. Durham basically did nothing, played 36 minutes. 

Leal played 2 minutes. 

Can’t defend those first two and totally agree they shouldn’t be given as much time when playing like that but Leal turned the ball over immediately when he was in and almost turned it over a second time on the following possession. Had to wipe his hands off on his jersey after the second near oopsy. I’ve stopped trying to understand the method to the madness of our sub patterns but I assume that played a part

[Southside 1,914]

4 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Here is what I don't get... Phinisee did literally nothing. Played 30 minutes. Durham basically did nothing, played 36 minutes. 

Leal played 2 minutes. 

Lander and Galloway on 10ish. Overall, the Gs off the bench were 0-4. I wonder had they hit their limited shots, if they would have got more minutes.

[Uspshoosier 45,751]

15 minutes ago, Josh said:

But it's definitely between those two, right?

I will say this since our conversation last year on this topic  for me Archie has gotten leapfrogged by some coaches I had behind him last year.    

[Josh 12,647]

12 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

For you maybe but not others.   Some might include Hoiberg since he went a calendar year in between conference wins and some might give him a pass for it only being year 2 but others won’t give any passes.   Some might include Collins who has had 3 straight losing seasons.    Some might think Turgeon is with as little he has done with the talent he has had 

What a shame that an IU coach is in the conversation with these.  And while I do agree that Turgeon underperforms, he has a 1st place Big Ten finish, two 2nds and a 3rd.  Archie has nothing positive on his resume.  

[IU - Kaulie 1,891]

6 minutes ago, kreigh8 said:

Can’t defend those first two and totally agree they shouldn’t be given as much time when playing like that but Leal turned the ball over immediately when he was in and almost turned it over a second time on the following possession. Had to wipe his hands off on his jersey after the second near oopsy. I’ve stopped trying to understand the method to the madness of our sub patterns but I assume that played a part

100%. He tried to give Leal a run and he showed he wasn’t into the game.  I say that and I like Leal a lot.  Can’t have Lander out there passing up wide open layups and trying to force passes that aren’t there and shooting 3’s like it’s a moving basket.  Again, not defending Archie but he has no choice but to play Rob.

[kreigh8 2,060]

1 minute ago, Jesus Shuttlesworth said:

100%. He tried to give Leal a run and he showed he wasn’t into the game.  I say that and I like Leal a lot.  Can’t have Lander out there passing up wide open layups and trying to force passes that aren’t there and shooting 3’s like it’s a moving basket.  Again, not defending Archie but he has no choice but to play Rob.

I do recall Leal getting a corner 3 look, but I honestly can't recall the last time I've seen him being forced to guard out on the perimeter. He keeps finding matchups down low. I said before, he does a good job of battling down there, but not sure him guarding Henry or Watts would be that great of a matchup for him.

Archie has parts, but not convinced those parts fit together in an optimal way. Freshman are very much still figuring things out and who they back up are wholly inconsistent especially at guard. His hands are more or less tied and with his seat growing hotter with each loss he can't really afford to play for the future especially with us still on the bubble. Just the way I see it which probably sounds like I'm defending Archie, but he's paid pretty handsomely to acquire those players and make sure they are put in place to succeed. Buck stops with him

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,225]

Just watched the game.

We suck

Archie needs fired now(won't happen)

That is all

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[Alford Bailey 12,386]

Not convinced Leal can play at this level. Galloway can on effort. Concerned about Lander but has most potential I guess. . Rob and Al should be riding the pine but there is nobody to pick up the slack.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,467]

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

I agree on some of this, but what he does very well in CBB, he will likely not be able to do in the NBA. 

Also, I've seen a ton of mock's not even mention him in the 1st two rounds. The last mock I saw with him included was mid 2nd round. 

IMO, if he worked on a few areas, he could push himself solidly into the 1st, which would mean substantially more $$. 

And look at Garza... potential POY, and a ton of press... He's a senior and will likely go in the 2nd just because he's not likely to translate due to limitations... TJD has a ton of unrealized potential, I think is the point. And the G probably is less helpful developmental wise, than another year in the B10.

I think his inability to shoot outside of the paint is the biggest thing hurting his draft stock. Theoretically he could come back next year and get one, but there are so many players that we say “if he develops a shot he could really be a player,” but then they never do. It’s tough for guys to develop a shot when they don’t already have a decent one. 
 

I honestly don’t think he’ll be picked in the first round even if he comes back next year. He’s too small to be an NBA 5, and he’s not athletic or versatile enough to be an NBA 4. He’s a classic guy who’s great in college but won’t be in the NBA, imho. 

[Southside 1,914]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I think his inability to shoot outside of the paint is the biggest thing hurting his draft stock. Theoretically he could come back next year and get one, but there are so many players that we say “if he develops a shot he could really be a player,” but then they never do. It’s tough for guys to develop a shot when they don’t already have a decent one. 
 

I honestly don’t think he’ll be picked in the first round even if he comes back next year. He’s too small to be an NBA 5, and he’s not athletic or versatile enough to be an NBA 4. He’s a classic guy who’s great in college but won’t be in the NBA, imho. 

I agree, but I do think he can improve his intermediate shot.

Part of me thinks it's (his issues) partly because of where we play him out of necessity, and given the chance, he could be more well rounded. IDK. 

[Baseline 4]

1 hour ago, Alford Bailey said:

Not convinced Leal can play at this level. Galloway can on effort. Concerned about Lander but has most potential I guess. . Rob and Al should be riding the pine but there is nobody to pick up the slack.

I'm honestly shocked regarding the small contributions from those two. Galloway will go 3-4 games without taking a shot and then, all of a sudden, he will jack up a contested 3. It makes no sense. Leal was an amazing HS shooter. I thought he would put up 5-6 pts a game, at least.

[HoosierHoopster 6,994]

2 hours ago, Jesus Shuttlesworth said:

Hunter is SOFT on D.  If he is not on one of his hot streaks you can’t play him.  I like Leal as much as anyone but if you watched the 2 minutes he played you would get it.  Lander is going to be good but nowhere near ready.  I’m not defending Archie but I don’t know what other option he has but to play Rob.  Rob was recruited and was expected to be something he hasn’t become for whatever reason.  It should be called out that Northwestern and MSU are more than bad.  Both are down right awful teams.   Losing to both of them on our own court is a joke.  Tournament team?  SMH.  Whatever.  

Cant win if you can’t score. Rob wasn’t scoring but he is a key ball handler and defender. In this game Al could not score. We lost for lack of ability to put the ball in the net, and again Hunter just came off basically an MVP caliber game. Hunter should have played more, we need outside scoring but CAM devalues it, and unfortunately he largely sticks with a group snd minutes despite lack of offense - that is why we lost to what is basically a weak team this season. 

[IU - Kaulie 1,891]

34 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Cant win if you can’t score. Rob wasn’t scoring but he is a key ball handler and defender. In this game Al could not score. We lost for lack of ability to put the ball in the net, and again Hunter just came off basically an MVP caliber game. Hunter should have played more, we need outside scoring but CAM devalues it, and unfortunately he largely sticks with a group snd minutes despite lack of offense - that is why we lost to what is basically a weak team this season. 

Hunter is a complete liability on the defensive end.  He played enough and was in down the stretch when we were looking for offense.  He would have played more if he was on a heater but this game he wasn’t.  I fault CAM for many things but not for putting value and giving minutes for ‘D’ and effort.  We lost this game not because we couldn’t score.  We lost this game because we gave up a 50 piece in the 2nd half and let them shoot a high % all over the court.

[Golfman25 5,447]

5 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He can have 24 hour access to a court in the G league too. And he doesn’t have to take classes to get it. None of those things you mentioned require coming back for his junior year. Archie Miller can’t coach offense. He’d be better off going to the G league and getting legitimate coaching. 

I'm not 100% sure on that.  The Bulls G leage team practices at a park district facility.  Limited access based on hours and other activities -- have to share the court with the pee wees, tournaments, and volleyball.  And I'll guess the travel arraingements on a Big 10 team are better than the G league.  

[Golfman25 5,447]

7 hours ago, kreigh8 said:

I know Rob has his fans here and he had a solid stretch there in late December to mid January but he's a liability. His defense doesn't make up enough for the rest of the things he doesn't do. Hell, I'd wager Parker Stewart could be thrown out there and at least hit an outside shot. Just so disappointed after the Minny game where things were really clicking.  

I just can't understand why Stewart isn't comming off the bench to hit some outside shots when we are in the midst of the wrong end of a 10-0 run.  

[Golfman25 5,447]

4 hours ago, Josh said:

I have said many times for many years that Archie Miller is the worst coach in the Big Ten.  I'm starting to think Richard Pitino is worse which puts Archie at 13th.  Prove me wrong.

I got to ride in an elevator with Pitino at the B-town Hilton Garden Inn.  I'll take him over Archie.  :)   

[Golfman25 5,447]

38 minutes ago, Jesus Shuttlesworth said:

Hunter is a complete liability on the defensive end.  He played enough and was in down the stretch when we were looking for offense.  He would have played more if he was on a heater but this game he wasn’t.  I fault CAM for many things but not for putting value and giving minutes for ‘D’ and effort.  We lost this game not because we couldn’t score.  We lost this game because we gave up a 50 piece in the 2nd half and let them shoot a high % all over the court.

A few of those 10-0 runs didn't help.  Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,674]

2 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Not convinced Leal can play at this level. Galloway can on effort. Concerned about Lander but has most potential I guess. . Rob and Al should be riding the pine but there is nobody to pick up the slack.

Leal will end up being fine. He, Lander and Geronimo set a good base for a coach that can actually run a team. Leal needs to be in an offense that actually gets shooters open. Runs them off screens, gets drives and kicks. JJ Redick would have been trash playing for Archie. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,467]

Anyone know what Dakich said during the game? I’m far from a fan, but I didn’t notice anything outrageous. 
 

 

[coonhounds 8,956]

Anyone know what Dakich said during the game? I’m far from a fan, but I didn’t notice anything outrageous. 
 
 

He said that at the beginning of the season tjd was all about getting his and not being team oriented but now he was starting to be about the team and not just getting his

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