Negativity Thread

[8bucks 6,383]

Yes, the best opening in college basketball and Archie is what we got. Just because you want it to be different doesn't mean it's going to be. Coaches don't look at IU like you supposedly do. Chris Holtman would rather go to Ohio St a football school than come deal with Indiana. Maybe 10-15 years ago you could have gotten someone better, but I was at Assembly Hall when Pitino came through, his family didn't want to live here, he didn't want this job. Fire Archie which if IU does I'm fine with it, doesn't affect my family. Actually I make less money because of Archie is the coach and not Crean but you will get the best midmajor, Alford, Fife and a few others who are interested. 

I did not know Pitino actually came to campus. I had heard he lobbied for the spot but we were not ready to go that direction. Story seems different if he was on campus


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[rcbowla 7,047]

We are in a fire someone thread. Everything is going to be negative. The title alone is negative. So that doesn’t make any sense?


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He's kinda right here

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[Chris007 43,622]

Just now, 8bucks said:

I did not know Pitino actually came to campus. I had heard he lobbied for the spot but we were not ready to go that direction. Story seems different if he was on campus


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Whether it is true or not the story was that his wife didn't think Bloomington was a big enough city for them to live in and too far away from a big city. Yes he and his family visited Assembly Hall

[hoosierdaddy_72 112]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

But as I said no home run wants to come here these days for a variety of reasons. Maybe you will get that if you offer a crazy amount of money and someone is looking for a big payday. 

Who is driving the negativity the scares people away.  It obviously isn't anonymous goofballs on twitter and message boards.  Are we talking about boosters, the athletic department, the BOT or what?

[Chris007 43,622]

2 minutes ago, hoosierdaddy_72 said:

Who is driving the negativity the scares people away.  It obviously isn't anonymous goofballs on twitter and message boards.  Are we talking about boosters, the athletic department, the BOT or what?

I personally just don't think it's as great as a job anymore as IU fans think it is. I think that boosters always have who they want. I know a lot of people were doing things for Fred to gauge interest from candidates. I know Fred had weekly meetings with certain trustees to discuss options. I don't really know, maybe a new AD will have someone in mind. Maybe Dakich and others will get their wish with Alford if it comes open again. 

[Hovadipo 55,272]

20 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I personally just don't think it's as great as a job anymore as IU fans think it is. I think that boosters always have who they want. I know a lot of people were doing things for Fred to gauge interest from candidates. I know Fred had weekly meetings with certain trustees to discuss options. I don't really know, maybe a new AD will have someone in mind. Maybe Dakich and others will get their wish with Alford if it comes open again. 

They’d mess around and unite BtB around Archie if Alford becomes a realistic candidate. 

[Vauxhall and IU 317]

Pitino had his own set of criteria. Once he discovered the tabletops at Grazie weren't strong enough to support him and his mistresses, we were out of the running.

[Lebowski 2,474]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

This might be my favorite line I've seen on here in months. Aren't we all that dude. I agree with what you said and I really wish we would have passed on some if not all of them. one they are all Crean guys, none of them have any leadership qualities, and they don't fit the system you are trying to play. 

I totally understand your point but I don't think that's an excuse for the lack of development.  In my opinion, which means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, that falls directly on who's developing them.  

My main comment was at what point do we start to question CAM's development skills? After all the Crean recruits leave the building?  Because that's a key component for his success here and as of right now he's not doing a very good job at it.  Shoot man, Race has been in the system equally to Durham and Smith.  I would have thought Race would be playing more minutes because he's one of Archie's recruits.  But he isn't.  

Look the season is early.  They've got 11 wins and 3 losses.  They've had a some good wins and 3 bad losses.  Shots weren't falling in those losses and 2 of the 3 losses were conference losses on the road.  He gets a pass from me but it's a complicated case when it comes to the development of his players.

[Iugradman 4,457]

26 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I personally just don't think it's as great as a job anymore as IU fans think it is. 

That is a massive failure on the part of the administration. It is their job to provide the best facilities, resources, and culture possible to attract and retain a high quality coach. A new coach shouldn't have to plead for upgrades.

[JSHoosier 19,932]

36 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I personally just don't think it's as great as a job anymore as IU fans think it is. I think that boosters always have who they want. I know a lot of people were doing things for Fred to gauge interest from candidates. I know Fred had weekly meetings with certain trustees to discuss options. I don't really know, maybe a new AD will have someone in mind. Maybe Dakich and others will get their wish with Alford if it comes open again. 

Speaking as a person that likes having an IU guy on the bench....please not Alford.

[8bucks 6,383]

Speaking as a person that likes having an IU guy on the bench....please not Alford.

There really are not many IU guys coaching successfully right now are there?


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[JSHoosier 19,932]

39 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

There really are not many IU guys coaching successfully right now are there?


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Not as head coaches.  Doesn't have to be as HC, assistant is fine like Roberts; I just like having an IU guy on the bench.

[Josh 12,604]

I want to start with a disclaimer: I don't think anybody on here is a loser.  We're full of intelligent people.

The thought that we don't have an elite program, the thought that we couldn't get a better coach, the thought that this is what it is and we shouldn't expect to become elite again...that is a loser's mentality. 

It's ok if that's what you believe.  Everybody has a right to their own opinion.  It disturbs me that this opinion is close to or within the program.  I'd prefer a killer instinct to a defeatist attitude.  I'd like to see some pride.  I don't see it in this program right now.  That's a big problem.

[Golfman25 5,105]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

I personally just don't think it's as great as a job anymore as IU fans think it is. I think that boosters always have who they want. I know a lot of people were doing things for Fred to gauge interest from candidates. I know Fred had weekly meetings with certain trustees to discuss options. I don't really know, maybe a new AD will have someone in mind. Maybe Dakich and others will get their wish with Alford if it comes open again. 

You and others consistently point out that it's not that great of a job anymore.  Whether it be the town (wives don't like it), the facilities (have to beg for updates, which to my eye have been made), the administration (won't let them cheat), the fans (a bunch of dudes online talking about firing the coach after a loss), the pressure (hey big life, big stage, big ten), IU is old and stuffy, and a variety of other factors.   There are 65 head coach basketball jobs in the power 5.  Where are we in that bunch?  

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,081]

Honestly, Indiana is still a top 20 if not 15 job in the country. $ sets the standard. If we wanted to pay a little more or a lot more, and we could we could be a top 5 job.

The “grey” area/flexibility on recruiting is where I can’t fully judge. This seems to be a compliance issue other schools don’t have as much problem with. If so, this lowers our chances of winning big, it just does.

All other factors (INCLUDING Fan Pressure), we are at worst a top 15 job, no doubt in my mind.

Archie will get another year to prove his strategy and that’s warranted imo and probably how it should be. The red flags are flying everywhere though for me. He needs to know what he wants in a recruit and do better landing the guys he wants. The excuses by the fanbase are tiresome.


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[NashvilleHoosier 3,696]

So many things in this thread! 

1.) Archie being a home run hire. His name came up with nearly every decent job opening for the few years ahead of him moving to IU. He was undoubtedly one of the most sought after coaches. My understanding is he was not going anywhere until a job like ours opened up. I understand there is good info out there that others turned us down. But its too easy to say Archie wasn't a home run hire now. At the time, it absolutely was. 

2.) Is IU as elite of a job as fans think? There are so many factors that go in this but the history will always be there, the fans have continued to show up in the worst of times including a 6 win season, you could recruit and bring in ONLY players in state and have enough talent to win conference championships....the list goes on. I think we check nearly every box for being an elite job still. 

3.) What's the single biggest factor making this job unattractive? Drumroll.............surprise, it's US!! (collectively, us, the fanbase, not just Btown Banners). This happens with passionate fanbases that care, but we can be both the absolute best and absolute worst thing about IU basketball. 

[Jeff_Boy_Ardee 1,311]

Not to go after anyone directly so don’t take this the wrong way, but I think it’s crazy so many people are jumping on Chris for relaying what another coach told him. It’s fine that we all, as fans, have differing opinions on the coach and state of the program. But as fans, our opinions on a forum don’t matter, if the perception amongst coaches is that Indiana will start yelling for a coach to get fired if they don’t like them after two years that is very telling. Like I’ve said before, at the time we made Archie a top 10 paid coach and that was the quality we got, whether you were for it or against it at the time, that’s what we get at this time. If we could pull someone like a Pearl caliber coach away from where they were currently at then I’d be all for it but I don’t see that happening. I’m not saying I want to see Archie here for another 5 years if things continue to progress this way, but it’s insane to fire him after 3 years with no certainty of a replacement, we’ll be back in the same spot we are now.

 

 

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[Golfman25 5,105]

6 minutes ago, Jeff_Boy_Ardee said:

Not to go after anyone directly so don’t take this the wrong way, but I think it’s crazy so many people are jumping on Chris for relaying what another coach told him. It’s fine that we all, as fans, have differing opinions on the coach and state of the program. But as fans, our opinions on a forum don’t matter, if the perception amongst coaches is that Indiana will start yelling for a coach to get fired if they don’t like them after two years that is very telling. 

 

 

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I'm not jumping on Chris, but if that's what the guy said then he, the coach, is a pu$$y.  I want him no where near our program.  Coaches all say "we don't listen to fans, read the paper, etc."  Yet this guy can't take the heat of some fans bitching about what's going on.   

I want a coach that hates to loose.  A guy that doesn't make excuses, and would fire himself for poor performance.  A guy that can self evaluate, adapt and change.  A guy that's harder on himself than the fans.  

[Jeff_Boy_Ardee 1,311]

I'm not jumping on Chris, but if that's what the guy said then he, the coach, is a pu$$y.  I want him no where near our program.  Coaches all say "we don't listen to fans, read the paper, etc."  Yet this guy can't take the heat of some fans bitching about what's going on.   
I want a coach that hates to loose.  A guy that doesn't make excuses, and would fire himself for poor performance.  A guy that can self evaluate, adapt and change.  A guy that's harder on himself than the fans.  

That’s fine. I understand what you want. Not saying what you want is wrong. But as a candidate looking at a potential job, keep in mind this is their job. Sure they can probably end up somewhere else, but if you already have a great job, that compensates you well, and you’re successful there, why would you want to leave for a job that may or may not be that big of an upgrade when there is a slimmer chance of job security. At the end of the day, these guys have jobs and families and have to move their families constantly or move away from their families. You have to weigh the pros and the cons and imo I think for a lot of the top guys we all want the cons outweigh the pros in the year 2020.


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[rcbowla 7,047]

I've said it before but the fact that the fan base is so divided over the current coach says a whole lot. Can there be this much divisiveness and things be fine?

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