Secret Scrimmage Information

[BGleas]

7 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

His calling card will be defense. That’ll be his biggest asset to the team. I find it funny that somehow having Archie as a coach is a red flag offensively but now it’s up to Justin Smith... Smith will be playing the 3/4 all season.


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His calling card is defense, but he can't play the 3 unless he's drastically improved at ball handling, decision making in traffic, being an offensive creator off of ball screens, passing, shooting etc. 

In the offense the guards and wings (1,2 & 3) are responsible for coming off ball screens and creating offense for themselves and others. They're responsible for handling the ball in traffic, attacking the basket and making decisions with the ball. I like aspects of Smith's game, and he can absolutely be a key, valuable player for IU, but not only has he not shown an ability to do those things, he's actually shown he's pretty bad at them. 

I'll be really surprised if Archie is playing three guys together for extended minutes that can't handle the ball and create offense off of ball screens. 

[RaceToTheTop]

I am going to go out a limb and say that Franklin averages below the seven fouls he had in the scrimmage.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Smith needs to play with urgency and quick twitch on D.

No more loafing in transition.

He needs to learn to use his athleticism on O and D.


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[Stuhoo]

19 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Smith needs to play with urgency and quick twitch on D.

No more loafing in transition.

He needs to learn to use his athleticism on O and D.


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All true, but I'm just not seeing that as being extraordinarily likely. Justin Smith frustrates me to no end.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

All true, but I'm just not seeing that as being extraordinarily likely. Justin Smith frustrates me to no end.

 

This is where I'm at. I'd say "energy guy off the bench" but he's not really an energy guy. If Race and JH are ready to go, he may just be a "bench" guy. His effort and body language last year were infuriating.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

His calling card is defense, but he can't play the 3 unless he's drastically improved at ball handling, decision making in traffic, being an offensive creator off of ball screens, passing, shooting etc. 
In the offense the guards and wings (1,2 & 3) are responsible for coming off ball screens and creating offense for themselves and others. They're responsible for handling the ball in traffic, attacking the basket and making decisions with the ball. I like aspects of Smith's game, and he can absolutely be a key, valuable player for IU, but not only has he not shown an ability to do those things, he's actually shown he's pretty bad at them. 
I'll be really surprised if Archie is playing three guys together for extended minutes that can't handle the ball and create offense off of ball screens. 

Not exactly. Smith basically never needs to dribble at the 3 or 4. We are acting like Archie knows how to coach an offense. Our offense is going to be limited whether Smith can dribble or not. It really makes no difference. Our defense is going to have to be fantastic. Like one of the absolute best and Smiths athleticism and length at the 3/4 is going to be a part of that. If we average more than 73 a game, be happy.


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[mdn82]

Not exactly. Smith basically never needs to dribble at the 3 or 4. We are acting like Archie knows how to coach an offense. Our offense is going to be limited whether Smith can dribble or not. It really makes no difference. Our defense is going to have to be fantastic. Like one of the absolute best and Smiths athleticism and length at the 3/4 is going to be a part of that. If we average more than 73 a game, be happy.


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I would be ecstatic if we averaged 73 a game because we haven’t done it yet under Archie.


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[Honkyman]

I'll be really surprised if Archie is playing three guys together for extended minutes that can't handle the ball and create offense off of ball screens. 

Archie started McRoberts for most of two seasons and he couldn't create any offense.

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

I would be ecstatic if we averaged 73 a game because we haven’t done it yet under Archie.


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That’s kinda my point. The offense is likely not going to be very good no matter who is on the floor. Might as well play to our strengths On defense.


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[Uspshoosier]

Not exactly. Smith basically never needs to dribble at the 3 or 4. We are acting like Archie knows how to coach an offense. Our offense is going to be limited whether Smith can dribble or not. It really makes no difference. Our defense is going to have to be fantastic. Like one of the absolute best and Smiths athleticism and length at the 3/4 is going to be a part of that. If we average more than 73 a game, be happy.


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“We are acting like Archie knows how to coach an offense” nice troll comment you worked in.


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[BGleas]

2 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Not exactly. Smith basically never needs to dribble at the 3 or 4. We are acting like Archie knows how to coach an offense. Our offense is going to be limited whether Smith can dribble or not. It really makes no difference. Our defense is going to have to be fantastic. Like one of the absolute best and Smiths athleticism and length at the 3/4 is going to be a part of that. If we average more than 73 a game, be happy.


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There's no 3/4. The '3' is a wing spot, the '4' is a forward spot. They're different roles with different skill sets. Smith has the skill sets to play forward (4), not the wing (3). As mentioned, at the wing spot you're in a role where you're coming off ball screens handling the ball and creating. At the forward spot, where Smith played all of last season, like literally all of his minutes, you're on the perimeter but you're the one setting the ball screens and either diving to the basket to finish a play or fading for the perimeter shot. 

Smith is a forward in terms of skill set, not a wing. Your comments are Archie are just ridiculous. 

[mdn82]

“We are acting like Archie knows how to coach an offense” nice troll comment you worked in.

 

 

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You know the ultimate troll job would be if Joe is really Archie or Gradman was in fact Glass. I would have to take a step back and say well played.

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

There's no 3/4. The '3' is a wing spot, the '4' is a forward spot. They're different roles with different skill sets. Smith has the skill sets to play forward (4), not the wing (3). As mentioned, at the wing spot you're in a role where you're coming off ball screens handling the ball and creating. At the forward spot, where Smith played all of last season, like literally all of his minutes, you're on the perimeter but you're the one setting the ball screens and either diving to the basket to finish a play or fading for the perimeter shot. 
Smith is a forward in terms of skill set, not a wing. Your comments are Archie are just ridiculous. 

Well the 3 is typically a small forward. But I guess the word “forward” means nothing. And where do small forwards play at? The wing and out on the perimeter. Some are shooters and some are slashers. Smith is a guy who should be looking for lanes to cut when Phinisee and Green get in the lane. Sure you can be a 3 and be a shooting guard because Al and Romeo did it plenty last season. Both are considered SG’s and wings. Just like a SF is considered a wing. In fact, nowadays a 4, PF or small ball forward can be considered a wing depending on the type of offense you run and who that player is. Smith doesn’t play on the block. And plays the 3/4 depending on the personnel on the court.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

I’ve seen enough set plays work to know that Archie can coach offense.


This team lacks “basketball players.” We need better shooters. Better passers. Just better fundamental guys. Even Crean didn’t figure that out. He just loaded up on shooters and said “bombs away.”


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Archie can coach offense? Is that why so many of his teams haven’t been great offenses? Crean could coach an offense. We saw that. That’s yet to be seen from an Archie coached team. At Dayton or Indiana.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

How many of his teams have had a lot of good scorers?


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Well Romeo and Juwan were pretty good scorers.


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[Demo]

Usually skip conversations like this one, but sometimes it’s just unavoidable. Philosophically, Archie has never tripped my trigger. Have always preferred 2 guard fronts, motion and pace offensively and aggressive denials and forcing iso’s defensively. And Archie is obviously a pack line guy who runs pretty conventional ball screen stuff on offense. He’s a pretty connect the dots coach. Can’t remember many, or really any, times in the last couple of years where I ran a play back because something Archie ran made me think “woah, what was that?” He’s no Beilein or Randy Bennett or McKillop or one of the elite x’s and o’s guys. At least not to me.

But to suggest that he can’t coach offense is just dumb. If what you run gets the ball where you want it and creates an opportunity you’re happy with, then what you ran worked. What the player does with it is on the player. They were pretty successful getting the ball to the block for Morgan or Davis and getting it to Langford in attacking spots. The fact that teams could just clog or double off of guys like Smith or McRoberts isn’t a function of bad offense, it’s a function of bad offensive players. This team probably would have been better offensively with Beilein or Randy Bennett, but they wouldn’t have been good. 

This team will be an interesting test for Miller. I like this team’s offensive potential better than most on here. I think there is some interesting versatility and the potential to create a lot of favorable matchups if Archie is willing to get creative and stretch a bit. 

[BGleas]

56 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Well the 3 is typically a small forward. But I guess the word “forward” means nothing. And where do small forwards play at? The wing and out on the perimeter. Some are shooters and some are slashers. Smith is a guy who should be looking for lanes to cut when Phinisee and Green get in the lane. Sure you can be a 3 and be a shooting guard because Al and Romeo did it plenty last season. Both are considered SG’s and wings. Just like a SF is considered a wing. In fact, nowadays a 4, PF or small ball forward can be considered a wing depending on the type of offense you run and who that player is. Smith doesn’t play on the block. And plays the 3/4 depending on the personnel on the court.


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You’re still not understanding it. Yes, both the wings (2 and 3) and the forwards (4’s) are on the perimeter,  but their roles on the perimeter are much different. They are not interchangeable. The 2/3’s are, the 4 plays a different role in the offense.  

The slasher role you’re describing is not a wing, it’s a forward. The wings are coming off ball screens, handling it in traffic, and either shooting, attacking the basket and/or delivering the ball to the slasher. That is not Justin Smith’s skillset. 

Smith is a forward. The forwards reverse the ball and then set ball screens for the wings and then either slash/roll to the basket or flare. That is Smith’s role and skillset. 

[HoosierAloha]

You’re still not understanding it. Yes, both the wings (2 and 3) and the forwards (4’s) are on the perimeter,  but their roles on the perimeter are much different. They are not interchangeable. The 2/3’s are, the 4 plays a different role in the offense.  
The slasher role you’re describing is not a wing, it’s a forward. The wings are coming off ball screens, handling it in traffic, and either shooting, attacking the basket and/or delivering the ball to the slasher. That is not Justin Smith’s skillset. 
Smith is a forward. The forwards reverse the ball and then set ball screens for the wings and then either slash/roll to the basket or flare. That is Smith’s role and skillset. 

It’s not really worth it. What’s the saying? Never wrestle a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.


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[Bigred3588]

9 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I wouldn’t say Smith failed. But it seems he was likely relied on as a top scoring option. Which won’t be the case when Rob and Green are back.


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I’m not sure the thought of Green being a top scoring option is much more comforting tbh

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

You’re still not understanding it. Yes, both the wings (2 and 3) and the forwards (4’s) are on the perimeter,  but their roles on the perimeter are much different. They are not interchangeable. The 2/3’s are, the 4 plays a different role in the offense.  
The slasher role you’re describing is not a wing, it’s a forward. The wings are coming off ball screens, handling it in traffic, and either shooting, attacking the basket and/or delivering the ball to the slasher. That is not Justin Smith’s skillset. 
Smith is a forward. The forwards reverse the ball and then set ball screens for the wings and then either slash/roll to the basket or flare. That is Smith’s role and skillset. 

Forwards play on the wing. Smith plays on the wing. That is what best fits him. Why? Because you can’t be Karl Malone and be considered a slasher. And remember, Malone was a forward. What’s so hard to understand about the role of a slasher? Was Shaq a slasher just because he caught some passes down low and dunked it? When did Shaq ever start at the 3 point line and backcut for a jam? Malone? Duncan? Ewing? Never. Does Justin Smith fit into the same role and category of player as any of them? Or does he fit into a role like Mo Harkless, Andre Roberson or evening Luc Mbah a Moute? All 3 are wing players on offense.


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