IU at Illinois Game Thread (1/24 - 9pm - BTN)

[HoosierAloha]

From everything I have heard at games or from people I respect they were so far behind on their defensive fundamentals and terminology that is what they worked on early and often. Crean’s practices were also very different. Very demanding. I too feel they spent so much time on defense however this area of our team has failed us. The kids for the most part get good looks. Just not dropping.


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This is one bright spot I look at in a rather terrible season. We are getting open looks, inside and from behind the arc, but we're not hitting them. If we had just a few solid shooters they would thrive in this system. If we could be a good layup making team, I feel like this is another Crean thing, we could have a lot better offense. Our players glide or jump away from the rim to lay it in.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Archie is beating himself up for not bringing his vastly superior Dayton Recruiting class with him.

No room.

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[cbp4iu]

Last post before going to bed but what did Crean ever see in Freddie? I hate to put a kid down. He has no shot he’s way undersize. His defense is below average. I’ll give him that he’s a good rebounder when he actually catches the ball. But he travels every time under the basket. I would seriously want to know what made Crean recruit Freddie over a 5th year player or a Freshmen. I don’t think Freddie even played much last year so what’s the point of recruiting him. 

[mdn82]

This is one bright spot I look at in a rather terrible season. We are getting open looks, inside and from behind the arc, but we're not hitting them. If we had just a few solid shooters they would thrive in this system. If we could be a good layup making team, I feel like this is another Crean thing, we could have a lot better offense. Our players glide or jump away from the rim to lay it in.


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It’s weird cause Crean’s teams were always horrible in the half court. We have a collection of players that would tell you half court offense and defense was foreign to them before late October. I hope going into next year the current players we have will be more comfortable and we have an addition by subtraction situation while bringing in talent that is in areas of need.


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[Old Friend]

11 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

From everything I have heard at games or from people I respect they were so far behind on their defensive fundamentals and terminology that is what they worked on early and often. Crean’s practices were also very different. Very demanding. I too feel they spent so much time on defense however this area of our team has failed us. The kids for the most part get good looks. Just not dropping.


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I agree with all of this.  What I don't agree with is a coach spending that much time on defense with a team that has 5 seniors on it.  This season, our only chance - even WITH Davis - was to play solid defense but score in transition.  The whole roster save the freshmen had been taught that way; and to completely change it when really only one of the freshmen was going to play much, was counter-productive to THIS team.  I would have been on board with a younger team all or most of whom would be returning; but he has another off season with them.  Our offense is clearly behind our defense (and both have been terrible on occasion); and it's cost us a couple of games, now.

I am also no fan of force feeding one way of doing things.  The pack line defense, much like Knight's man to man, is limited in some ways by personnel; and will eventually be solved.  I am more a fan of being flexible and sound at a few things.

[DChoosier]

1 minute ago, cbp4iu said:

Last post before going to bed but what did Crean ever see in Freddie? I hate to put a kid down. He has no shot he’s way undersize.

You do not see the big picture.

Crean obviously realized he had a talented stretch 4 in Priller and knew he needed a bruiser to clean up things underneath.

[pumpfake]

7 minutes ago, cbp4iu said:

Last post before going to bed but what did Crean ever see in Freddie? I hate to put a kid down. He has no shot he’s way undersize. His defense is below average. I’ll give him that he’s a good rebounder when he actually catches the ball. But he travels every time under the basket. I would seriously want to know what made Crean recruit Freddie over a 5th year player or a Freshmen. I don’t think Freddie even played much last year so what’s the point of recruiting him. 

We've had mid-season walkon football players that were better basketball players than FM and TP.  Nothing against them, they play hard and all that, but something was very wrong with us having a coach that gave them scholarships.

[Bailey7878]

We had no room for him and no one knee he was going to be this good. His rankings if I recall were about the same as Durham.

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Sure it is but if I recall none of us were all that excited about getting him. He was ranked like 250 and in state Minnesota did not even go after him. Sometimes players just surprise at college. It's a crap shoot.

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[BGleas]

Since I’ve been defending Archie, I’ll also provide something I feel he could have done over the last 8 or so minutes when we struggled to even get an entry pass from the point to the wing, and therefore couldn’t get Juwan the ball. 

He could have inverted the offense and gotten Juwan out on top with the ball and let him go to work from there, with our guards screening for each other to get a guy like RoJo open. Since our guards struggle so much and Illinois puts so much pressure on, it could have mixed things up and gotten our guys in some different positions, instead of just watching our guards dribble side-to-side. 

[HinnyHoosier]

So.... 145 AM, just home from work, saw the score.... Is the sky falling or no? Too sleepy to read the thread.


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[TheWatShot]

1 minute ago, HinnyHoosier said:

So.... 145 AM, just home from work, saw the score.... Is the sky falling or no? Too sleepy to read the thread.


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The sky fell after the Fort Wayne game and we've just been trying not to trip over any of the pieces ever since.

[Trish]

So.... 145 AM, just home from work, saw the score.... Is the sky falling or no? Too sleepy to read the thread.


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Pretty much free throws. Poor play, foul trouble, and turnovers didn’t help. Would’ve been fine hitting a few more FT’s.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Sure it is but if I recall none of us were all that excited about getting him. He was ranked like 250 and in state Minnesota did not even go after him. Sometimes players just surprise at college. It's a crap shoot.

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Yep. Hind sight is 20/20

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[Hoosierfan2017]

Green makes some bonehead decisions but I'm not ready to give up on him. The loss definitely wasn't all on him but I like seeing him take responsibility  

 

[dbmhoosier]

I was honestly surprised we were in this one until the end.  Sunday should be much better.

[Whoozhers]

Whoosh..... just woke up. Went to bed with this terrible loss on my my mind and woke up the same way. Not bueno.
Amongst all the negatives mentioned above .....free throws etc. ....even sure handed Zach had a key turnover at a crucial time.

Lots of speculation of why we play so poorly at times and lots of arm chair hindsight we offer for remedies.

Seems like we’re really tired at times. Maybe Casey has the root cause....

Casey Stengel: “The trouble is not that players have sex the night before a game. It’s that they stay out all night looking for it.” [emoji15]

I mean they are in their late teens and early 20’s..... right? [emoji12]

Come on HOOSIERS..... Surprise us and lay one on Purdue on Sunday!!!!


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[tortex28]

Oh well, screw it.

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[A.j. Nigh]

Since I’ve been defending Archie, I’ll also provide something I feel he could have done over the last 8 or so minutes when we struggled to even get an entry pass from the point to the wing, and therefore couldn’t get Juwan the ball. 

He could have inverted the offense and gotten Juwan out on top with the ball and let him go to work from there, with our guards screening for each other to get a guy like RoJo open. Since our guards struggle so much and Illinois puts so much pressure on, it could have mixed things up and gotten our guys in some different positions, instead of just watching our guards dribble side-to-side. 

 

Don’t disagree and I too thought about that move. My reasoning was he didn’t because he feared Morgan would pick up another foul on a charging call driving the lane. Risk/reward kinda thing.

 

 

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[A.j. Nigh]

Green makes some bonehead decisions but I'm not ready to give up on him. The loss definitely wasn't all on him but I like seeing him take responsibility  
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I couldn’t tell if that tweet meant “my fault”. Or “I can’t believe everyone thinks it’s all my fault”. Regardless, I quit reading the replies when 1 of the first ones mentioned him being one of the best ball handlers in the big 10. Where’s RP’s eye roll tweet again?!


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[KB0]

Good lord. The amount of personal attacks on Indiana players is staggering. Critique how they play all you want, but some of the stuff here is over the top. 

Frustrating game. Most IU fans were nervous heading into last night. Had trap game written all over it. After the first half I was cautiously optimistic about pulling out a win, but man that second half was rough. 

IU turned the ball over way too much and settled for poor shots too often when they didn't. Free throws were abysmal. Defense struggled to contain the drive in the second half. The refs were all over the place. 

The team has obviously improved  since the start of the season, but there is a thin margin of error. They simply aren't good enough to survive a horrendous night at the free throw line or ~20 turnovers.

On the bright side, Smith, Durham and Green are all seeing plenty of court time. They may be taking their lumps, but they'll be better for it. Fire hardens steel.