They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[AH1971]

6 minutes ago, monskisprodigy said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3096709/2022/01/27/how-chris-mack-fell-so-hard-so-fast-at-louisville-he-just-didnt-handle-all-of-this-very-well/

Not being combative. But this article doesn't paint the picture that Mack would survive in the fish bowl here, if he couldn't at UL.

“Prickly,’’ is a word used by more than one person to describe the coach who could be combative and dismissive with the media, and appeared at times, uncomfortable if not downright overwhelmed with the level of attention and second-guessing he received. He bristled when things went poorly, and shrugged when pressed for explanations. “Well if I was an AD, at the top of the list of things I’d tell my coaches to never say is, ‘Well I don’t have an explanation for that,’’’ one person familiar with the program says. “And he said that a lot.’’

"Ultimately, insiders say the external issues combined with Mack’s combative personality combusted, creating so much turmoil that the Cards collapsed like a house of cards — except from within."

Should have hired him over Archie

[Chris007]

4 minutes ago, Scooter T Washington said:

Why isn’t he  coaching here now? Facts please, not b.s.

Got out voted by his family 3-1. Not sure how long you have been here but I have documented the whole thing many times. Actually, live posting the whole thing as it was happening during the last search. Tracy left Boca Raton last time with the contract in hand for Brad to sign, IU people celebrating that they had a verbal deal, them somehow making her mad, everything changing mid-flight, then him doing the interview he was a masshole. 

[IUFAN1976]

9 minutes ago, monskisprodigy said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3096709/2022/01/27/how-chris-mack-fell-so-hard-so-fast-at-louisville-he-just-didnt-handle-all-of-this-very-well/

Not being combative. But this article doesn't paint the picture that Mack would survive in the fish bowl here, if he couldn't at UL.

“Prickly,’’ is a word used by more than one person to describe the coach who could be combative and dismissive with the media, and appeared at times, uncomfortable if not downright overwhelmed with the level of attention and second-guessing he received. He bristled when things went poorly, and shrugged when pressed for explanations. “Well if I was an AD, at the top of the list of things I’d tell my coaches to never say is, ‘Well I don’t have an explanation for that,’’’ one person familiar with the program says. “And he said that a lot.’’

"Ultimately, insiders say the external issues combined with Mack’s combative personality combusted, creating so much turmoil that the Cards collapsed like a house of cards — except from within."

Sounds exactly like the current coach we have, NO THANKS!

[TheWatShot]

31 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Yes I absolutely believe Woodson deserved a 4th season even with hindsight. Firing a coach, especially an alum, after 3 years is terrible optics, considering Archie had just gotten 4 years. Now had Woodson finished with multiple losing seasons, no tournaments, etc it would have been a tougher conversation but you're getting 4 years at IU unless you have a Sampson level scandal. 

Archie only got a fourth year because of the pandemic. He really didn't even deserve a third year. Lucky for him he happened to be at the one blue blood program that lets "optics" dictate their decision-making. 

[str8baller]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Got out voted by his family 3-1. Not sure how long you have been here but I have documented the whole thing many times. Actually, live posting the whole thing as it was happening during the last search. Tracy left Boca Raton last time with the contract in hand for Brad to sign, IU people celebrating that they had a verbal deal, them somehow making her mad, everything changing mid-flight, then him doing the interview he was a masshole. 

How exactly does one get a commitable offer, leading IU to believe he’s theirs, and still have time to go home and get outvoted by his family?  That’s a weird timeline. 
 

And even is his kids are gone, he’s still at 1-1 tie with his wife. 

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, TheWatShot said:

Archie only got a fourth year because of the pandemic. He really didn't even deserve a third year. Lucky for him he happened to be at the one blue blood program that lets "optics" dictate their decision-making. 

Never going to build or sustain anything firing coaches every 2 years. And I think that's painfully obvious given the trajectory this program has taken dating back nearly 30 years. 

[Demo]

18 minutes ago, DoctorP said:

“players quit on their coach”

”a program with this kind of noise”

Always using language to subtly shift the onus away from Woodson and to either the players or fanbase. Just awful stuff.

Meanwhile we’re approaching a quarter century without seeing an E8. Crean and Archie, Woodson all received ample time to build a foundation and somewhat consistent winner. 
Surely UK has more “noise” than us and you definitely never would have thought last season that Pope could handle that noise. 
 

You use noise like Woody uses the term hump. 

I don’t get your point here at all. “players quit on their coach” is an indictment of the coach and not the players, and  “a program with this kind of noise” is like talking about Everest and “a mountain with this kind of snow.” It’s just a factually accurate statement of conditions that need to be dealt with as part of the climb. I don’t see any shift of onus in any way. 

[AH1971]

11 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Who cares? Probably everyone suffering through watching our team this year, man. Lol… his performance at Michigan seems like a good indicator we’d certainly be better. Not sure the list of coaches better than Dusty who we can also actually get is very long. Do you think it’s long - ballpark estimate? If not too many come to mind, seems we may have taken a risk in bringing him back, seeing how it’s played out and bad optics we hoped to avoid. If we do get a home run, I agree it’s worth the wait… but your posts haven’t sounded like you’re confident IU can make a good hire (fair).

I've given my three candidates, and I believe all three would accept if offered. But it's also not my job to give. 

[Bowhunter]

15 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

No way of substantiating that, but if I had to answer, probably better with Dusty. But who cares?

Dusty isn't my 1st, 2nd, or 3rd choice. If keeping Woodson a year too long means we get somebody better than Dusty, I'm all for it. 

Dusty going to make you eat your words!

[Chris007]

Just now, str8baller said:

How exactly does one get a commitable offer, leading IU to believe he’s theirs, and still have time to go home and get outvoted by his family?  That’s a weird timeline. 
 

And even is his kids are gone, he’s still at 1-1 tie with his wife. 

So we had met with the Stevens family multiple times at this point discussing numbers. So we knew where we needed to be. They made it seem to us if we met that number it would be a done deal. I don't think they felt we would and they have not talked it over as a family. So when Tracy met in Florida with our people we made our offer thinking it was a done deal. Then when our old boy system didn't like a strong woman in the room and made her mad, they went home talked it over as a family, and had the vote. Both kids were in school and didn't want to move back to Indiana. 

[TheWatShot]

3 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Never going to build or sustain anything firing coaches every 2 years. And I think that's painfully obvious given the trajectory this program has taken dating back nearly 30 years. 

Davis: 6 years

Sampson: 2 years (not fired for results)

Crean: 9 years

Miller: 4 years

Woodson: 4 years

 

 

The issue is we not only hire bad coaches, we keep them around too long. 

[maharkn]

6 minutes ago, str8baller said:

How exactly does one get a commitable offer, leading IU to believe he’s theirs, and still have time to go home and get outvoted by his family?  That’s a weird timeline. 
 

And even is his kids are gone, he’s still at 1-1 tie with his wife. 

Clearly not married, everyone knows the wife's vote counts for two or three

[realTomCrean]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

So we had met with the Stevens family multiple times at this point discussing numbers. So we knew where we needed to be. They made it seem to us if we met that number it would be a done deal. I don't think they felt we would and they have not talked it over as a family. So when Tracy met in Florida with our people we made our offer thinking it was a done deal. Then when our old boy system didn't like a strong woman in the room and made her mad, they went home talked it over as a family, and had the vote. Both kids were in school and didn't want to move back to Indiana. 

I believe what you're saying, but what specifically was done to cause her to back out? With a huge check already written and plans underway, what possibly could have been done by an IU member to disrupt the deal? 

[AZ Hoosier]

2 hours ago, mdiu28 said:

Wouldn't hate it but didn't he say no to UK?

Don't see him leaving unless he's made the highest paid coach in college basketball - just get those vibes from him. 

Maybe we take a look at baby brother, Bryce ... could very well end up with the better brother unlike the last time with Archie).

[Chris007]

Just now, realTomCrean said:

I believe what you're saying, but what specifically was done to cause her to back out? With a huge check already written and plans underway, what possibly could have been done by an IU member to disrupt the deal? 

I don't know the answer to that. Was just told that some of the older men in the room made her mad

[AH1971]

Just now, TheWatShot said:

Davis: 6 years

Sampson: 2 years (not fired for results)

Crean: 9 years

Miller: 4 years

Woodson: 4 years

 

 

The issue is we not only hire bad coaches, we keep them around too long. 

When you bail on a coach after two seasons (like you just admitted with Archie) it becomes next to impossible to survive here.

So you either:

a) win and win big out of the gate

b) have the stones to block out the noise

That's why hiring somebody who has never managed expectations like the ones that have been set here rarely work out.

[CSP]

8 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Never going to build or sustain anything firing coaches every 2 years. And I think that's painfully obvious given the trajectory this program has taken dating back nearly 30 years. 

Which hasn't happened, factually speaking. 

[realTomCrean]

31 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I used to read comics as a kid, And even then I always thought Lucy pulling the football was the dumbest trope. 
 

Now I get it…

Some say they won't believe it until they see it. I'm the opposite - Brad Stevens IUBB HC, Brady Stevens a 3-year player, and Papa Stevens a proud parent/grandparent. Eat it Charlie Brown

[IUFAN1976]

24 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

I get there are concerns about the optics of firing Woody after three years.

But, what about the optics of this season as a result of keeping him?  The 20+ point blowouts, ranked in the 60’s after huge NIL spend, empty AH, and significant national media criticism.  And we whiffed on another high school recruiting class, including top Indiana kids, which starts to compromise next year.  These optics are a lot worse than firing a bad coach after three years.

We have to quit thinking about the optics unless you look at the optics in the other direction.  It is clear the university only looked their direction and had no clue this was going to happen.  So which optic looks worse now, firing Woodson last year or what happened at the Illinois game?  I say the Illinois game was much worse!

[Jeff Flabjohns]

Just now, Demo said:

I don’t get your point here at all. “players quit on their coach” is an indictment of the coach and not the players, and  “a program with this kind of noise” is like talking about Everest and “a mountain with this kind of snow.” It’s just a factually accurate statement of conditions that need to be dealt with as part of the climb. I don’t see any shift of onus in any way. 

I’ll answer this and then be done responding to him or questions on his posts.
 

The first one might be me reading too much into it. But when you consider the source, “players quit on their coach” was taken by me to continue to shift blame away from CMW. Not to be pedantic, but the words literally are putting the active verbiage of quitting on the players. 
 

I take issue with the repeated highlighting of IUBB “noise”. I find it insulting to what’s been a consistently patient and knowledgeable fanbase. We’ve given every previous coach ample time to get it going. We haven’t been to an E8 since 2002. We aren’t asking for much given the resources a coach has at their disposal here. We want effort, a team that understands the fundamentals and a foundation for somewhat consistent success.
He repeatedly keeps bringing up “noise” as a reason coaches would/should either be turned off or wouldn’t be able to handle the job when the “noise” is the only thing this damn program has left for it.
 

In any way blaming the noise or fans in general for current or future issues continues to be the laziest take. Any program thats endured what we have this century and with fan interest, desire to win, and $$$ like this would have as much if not more noise.