IUBB vs #2 Kansas - Saturday, 12.16.23 @ 12:30 on CBS

[Hornsby 3,870]

“Just hating to hate” get real dude. We just played a freshman Gabe Cupps 37 minutes against the #2 team in the country because we don’t have serviceable guards. Woodson chose to leave a scholarship open and not bring in another guard. Gunn and Leal are unplayable. Xavier is frequently injured. When our lack of guards blows up in his face, that’s on Woodson. 

Yep 100% on woodson.

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[Scotty R 3,403]

22 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

In fairness would expect that to come around. He didn’t forget how to shoot, he is a very good shooter 

He is 7/20 in his last 5 games

[str8baller 7,264]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

what a sad state the program is in. 

Well…yeah. Lol

 It’s been an awful 20+ years. I’d argue that consistently making the tourney is a small step towards getting back to a good or even great program. 

[Scotty R 3,403]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If simply making the tournament is meeting expectations at IU then what a sad state the program is in. 

That is where we are at. Why would anyone think our expectations should be what it was 30 years ago. Probably half of the posters on here haven't seen IU win a championship so why would they expect a championship.

[MikeRoberts 7,885]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

Name them then.  Who would you have gotten.  I’m even giving you the benefit of hindsight. 
 

But, now they have to meet your criteria: “guards that can lead a team, that can create off the dribble, get others involved and create for themselves and stay in front of their man on D.”  That’s a bit more than “serviceable.”

I already answered this. The description above is what we need to be a good team. We aren’t even close to being a good team, therefore even having a serviceable guard that can do any of those things well is a plus to having nobody.

here: https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/TransferPortalTop/

I would take any of about 20 guards that were in the portal but if you need a name, max abmas but I have kids so I know how this will go, I’m sure you can find something about him that isn’t perfect

 

[AZ Hoosier 10,653]

43 minutes ago, Whoozhers said:

Class of 66 and I remember watching the Van Arsdale twins in the “Big 10 Game of the Week” in black and white early 60’s. Actually, Class of 66 probably got to see them in person at the IU Fieldhouse. 

Seems like yesterday. (Almost)

I guess I'm old too, then. I remember watching the Van Arsdales, Jimmy Ray and Jon McGlocklin with my dad on a little b/w tv... 

[AZ Hoosier 10,653]

36 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If simply making the tournament is meeting expectations at IU then what a sad state the program is in. 

Well, I have the expectation that they make the tournament every year... so yeah, let's meet it... but there has to be higher expectations for the program. As Woody said, win the league and then win the national championship... but wishing and dreaming aint gonna get it done.

[Golfman25 6,605]

29 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If simply making the tournament is meeting expectations at IU then what a sad state the program is in. 

Welcome to 2023.  We last sniffed a banner in 2002.  21 years ago - 2 freaking decades.  Most posters here hadn't hit puberty yet and many were probably still in diapers.  Then we most recently went 6 years without sniffing the tournament (maybe covid, but was cancelled).  Yes the program was/is in a sorry state.  The world passed us by.  A lot more competition now too.  Many of today's players have no clue about the IU of yesteryear.   You don't go from that to winning national championships overnight. 

You start by being at the top of the Big 10 -- say top 3.  Make the tournament every year.  Build a culture of winning.  Then start popping sweet 6 and elite 8 runs.  Once you hit Elite 8, it's a bit of luck to break thru to the final four -- but you have to be in it to win it.  Consistency is key.  

[go iu bb 8,959]

47 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

In fairness would expect that to come around. He didn’t forget how to shoot, he is a very good shooter 

The point being that with freshmen you don't know what to expect. Even if they live up to their promise, it usually isn't from the start. So bringing in someone that has already shown he can make shots in college would be preferable to another freshman.

[JSHoosier 22,182]

44 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If simply making the tournament is meeting expectations at IU then what a sad state the program is in. 

It should be a bare minimum expectation, it's a 68 team field so not that difficult any more. Definitely shouldn't be seen as some sort of real accomplishment.

[WayneFleekHoosier 50,937]

That is where we are at. Why would anyone think our expectations should be what it was 30 years ago. Probably half of the posters on here haven't seen IU win a championship so why would they expect a championship.

The easy answer is we put top 10 resources into basketball. We can now incentivize the players we want and the staff we want. We are 1b blue blood status as a program with top 5 fanbase and a top 10 NIL program.

 

My question is why can’t we expect top 10, top 20 results? Build the roster that makes us a top 10 team. Resources are there. I know it’s not as easy as that, but Money in should eventually equal results out and everyone knows it.

 

This year the error was trusting our backcourt and not getting the dog they needed. I am sure the staff right now will say that guy is X. I hope it is but he wasn’t proving it pre-injury.

 

Anyway, it’s not college basketball of the 1970s and 80s and the top spenders should have a gigantic competing advantage.

 

 

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[JSHoosier 22,182]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

The easy answer is we put top 10 resources into basketball. We can now incentivize the players we want and the staff we want. We are 1b blue blood status as a program with top 5 fanbase and a top 10 NIL program.

My question is why can’t we expect top 10, top 20 results? Build the roster that makes us a top 10 team. Resources are there. I know it’s not as easy as that, but Money in should eventually equal results out and everyone knows it.

This year the error was trusting our backcourt and not getting dog they needed. I am sure the staff right now will say that guy is X. I hope it is but he wasn’t proving it pre-injury.

Anyway, it’s not college basketball of the 1970s and 80s and the top spenders should have a gigantic competing advantage.


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Johnson is a hot or cold player, he can be really good or unplayable. You don't know which he'll be from one game to the next or even one half to the next.

[BGleas 8,967]

31 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

That is where we are at. Why would anyone think our expectations should be what it was 30 years ago. Probably half of the posters on here haven't seen IU win a championship so why would they expect a championship.

Prettt sure Mike Woodson said his expectations are Big Ten and National titles, and he said that under the backdrop of admitting he didn't have a lot of time to get there. 

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

I have mentioned this or some versions of this in several of my posts.  We have 10 new players on this team in which they are all learning a new system, role, and teammates.  I think we are exactly where this team should be.  Other than TG and X, which is where you want your experience at, everyone one else is really young.  This team will keep getting better and better, once X returns, if he does, then what we seen with Kansas should be our expectations going forward and with a down B10, we should finish in the top 5 and that should get us in.  
 

I realize we fans should have high expectations every year at IU but when you add 10 new players to your program, it is hard for any team to beat top 5 teams and win conference titles unless everything goes perfectly.  Losing X and Mgbako’s developing slower we’re two things that didn’t go perfectly, then throw in Newton, Trey’s 3 point shot, etc…. That is where we are.  The ship hasn’t sunk, we have a 2-0 start in the B10, no bad loses, we beat everyone we we’re supposed to on our schedule, and based on what I seen from this team in the Kansas game, there is no reason why this team can’t compete for a B10 title, or least finish in the top 4 or 5, have a minimum B10 record of 12-8, and have a minimum win total of 22 wins.  Let’s please stop the sky is falling chicken little attitude and get back to a more positive attitude.  Let’s keep the glass half full please!

[Golfman25 6,605]

30 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I already answered this. The description above is what we need to be a good team. We aren’t even close to being a good team, therefore even having a serviceable guard that can do any of those things well is a plus to having nobody.

here: https://247sports.com/season/2023-basketball/TransferPortalTop/

I would take any of about 20 guards that were in the portal but if you need a name, max abmas but I have kids so I know how this will go, I’m sure you can find something about him that isn’t perfect

 

Not going to get an argument from me.  Would have been a good pickup, regardless of who was on our roster.  Question then is why wasn't he a target?  Was hardly mentioned on the transfer portal page (came up 3 times in passing).  Seems nobody here was really gunning for him.   Seems like he was set on his home state school, Texas, from day one. 

See that wasn't that hard.  Fire Mike Woodson.  :)  

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

12 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Prettt sure Mike Woodson said his expectations are Big Ten and National titles, and he said that under the backdrop of admitting he didn't have a lot of time to get there. 

As well the coach and staff should.  I don’t think any coaching staff tells their players that I hope we are a bubble team this year and finish 8th in the B10.  Duuuuh!

[Rico 3,502]

Tamar Bates with 11 points late in the 1st half for Mizzou.  <sigh> lol

[BGleas 8,967]

5 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

As well the coach and staff should.  I don’t think any coaching staff tells their players that I hope we are a bubble team this year and finish 8th in the B10.  Duuuuh!

He didn't only tell the players that. He told the fans and the media. He set the expectations publicly. 

[str8baller 7,264]

18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Prettt sure Mike Woodson said his expectations are Big Ten and National titles, and he said that under the backdrop of admitting he didn't have a lot of time to get there. 

Woody doesn’t sign his paycheck and he surely isn’t going to fire himself. It’s the administration and donor class’s expectations that lead.  As fans we always want to believe the coach’s “rah rah” press conference speeches, but they don’t reflect reality. In reality, if we make the tourney again, Woody will be congratulated by most on turning the ship and heading in the right direction. 
 

KU,* UNC, UK…?  Yea, they’ll bounce you at the first sign of weakness. IU likes to give people time to improve or something.   
 

 

*I’m just guessing with KU since they are extremely good at hiring coaches. 

[Alford Bailey 13,189]

Pretty good showing for recruits even though we lost. Next year maybe make or break.