Maryland vs Indiana - Game Thread, Fri., 12/1 @ 7 BTN

[cthomas]

CJ can be so much more than he is currently. I keep waiting for the light to come on. He doesn't need to hunt shots or make highlight reel plays to the team better. In my opinion his niche right now should lockdown defense and offense from that and rebounds. If he just did that his value would go way up. So much about the success of this team is guys finding what they can do best and just doing that.

[Stuhoo]

20 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Not that anything we say here matters or what fans think matters but….

for those saying CJ shouldn’t see the floor and Leal/Cupps need his minutes, CJ (based on stats that I know some don’t like) actually had a better game than both. The more Leal and Cupps play, the worse their efficiency stats get. 

CJ can also defend  (3 steals even with a couple missed switches) when Cupps and Leal can’t stay in front of guys. With X out, I would probably take more Leal with Trey running offense rather than more Cupps.  Once again shows how important X is and how we have zero guard depth.

I get CJ is frustrating but the ability is there. Other guys don’t have the ability he does. Not saying shooter either but ability to be a great defender and efficient scorer by driving. Very similar to Trey honestly. He needs to make it easier on himself as someone else said. He makes the easy play, hard. Liked trying to tomahawk a dunk rather than just lay it up or dunk it with 2 hands. But the other 2 can’t score at all. I think Woodson sees it too and why they are so hard on him. They know he could be so much more. The others give what they have but they can only do so much. 

^^. One million%. ^^

[go iu bb]

4 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

Gunn will be alright given time. So will Sparks and Banks. I'm more worried about Cupps at this point. He seems a bit tentative and overwhelmed.

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Cupps is also just a freshman only 7 games into the season.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Gunn will be alright given time. So will Sparks and Banks. I'm more worried about Cupps at this point. He seems a bit tentative and overwhelmed.

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He’s exactly what I was expecting from him at this point. Every team trying to attack him has to fuel the fire. He’ll grind and get better but his expectations were inflated from our fanbase. He’s playing exactly the way he’s scouted. I think he’s a better shooter than he’s demonstrated, but he wasn’t really a shooter in HS either.




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[J34]

2 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Not that anything we say here matters or what fans think matters but….

for those saying CJ shouldn’t see the floor and Leal/Cupps need his minutes, CJ (based on stats that I know some don’t like) actually had a better game than both. The more Leal and Cupps play, the worse their efficiency stats get. 

CJ can also defend  (3 steals even with a couple missed switches) when Cupps and Leal can’t stay in front of guys. With X out, I would probably take more Leal with Trey running offense rather than more Cupps.  Once again shows how important X is and how we have zero guard depth.

I get CJ is frustrating but the ability is there. Other guys don’t have the ability he does. Not saying shooter either but ability to be a great defender and efficient scorer by driving. Very similar to Trey honestly. He needs to make it easier on himself as someone else said. He makes the easy play, hard. Liked trying to tomahawk a dunk rather than just lay it up or dunk it with 2 hands. But the other 2 can’t score at all. I think Woodson sees it too and why they are so hard on him. They know he could be so much more. The others give what they have but they can only do so much. 

He definitely seems to be making the game more difficult on himself. Love the 3 steals and his buy in on the defensive end, but quit pressing on the offensive end. He can get his shots within the natural flow of the offense. Especially if Malik learns to kick the ball out.lol

These guys are starting to figure out how to play with each other. We saw glimpses last night, of how relentless and dominant this frontcourt could potentially be. Really starting to like this team, although it will be frustrating at times.

[Dhop]

I woke up today and was suddenly more excited to see our next game.

I’m happy to go with that for now as my sentiments on our team.

[Stuhoo]

Six and one BAYBEEEEE!!

[coonhounds]

Six and one BAYBEEEEE!!

Just hoping we're not 6 and 4 here soon!

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[J34]

2 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

For Gunn, playing with the 2nd unit, there's not a lot of shot creators in the game. He tries too much to fill that role, even if it's a poor or untimely shot.

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That's exactly why CJ and Kaleb are so important to this group. They need to get comfortable/confident with being able to create for themselves and others. The ability is definitely there. I honestly do believe they are starting to get it on the defensive end. That will get them the minutes they need to figure it out on O.

[Stuhoo]

12 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

Just hoping we're not 6 and 4 here soon!

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Seven and three would be nice enough.

Then three cupcakes to 10-3.

Then ten out of 18 in the B1G and on to the NCAAs without needing a B1G tourney win or two.

[str8baller]

3 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

I get CJ is frustrating but the ability is there.

Same is true with regards to Geronimo. And many on this site went on and on about how great Geronimo was going to be. Potential is great for the future but worthless in the present.  
 

If you’re relying on stats that tell you Gun is better than Cupos currently you can confidentially toss those stats. Because nobody believes it, including the coaches making the decisions. 

[Hovadipo]

I’ll be in the other room sobbing. 

[Stuhoo]

9 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Same is true with regards to Geronimo. And many on this site went on and on about how great Geronimo was going to be. Potential is great for the future but worthless in the present.  
 

If you’re relying on stats that tell you Gun is better than Cupos currently you can confidentially toss those stats. Because nobody believes it, including the coaches making the decisions. 

But CJ is not Geronimo.

He might be end up never developing like Geronimo, but he also might end up like Rod Wilmont or  Troy Williams; talented athletes that the light went on for. And if CJ doesn’t get enough run we’ll never find out.

And I say that as someone who is fairly certain that Cupps will be a plus player for us.

[str8baller]

11 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

But CJ is not Geronimo.

No, he’s not. In the metaphysical sense I believe that is impossible. That’s why I made a simple comparison. 
 

Comparing their sophomore seasons they played (so far for CJ) about the same minutes. Geronimo’s numbers were better.  
 

But my post wasn’t really about either player but about how some fans tend to focus on promise over production.
 

Gunn has a lot of talent and I’m hopeful he fulfills it here at IU. But he’s not so brimming with physical talent that he needs to play through his numerous mistakes. And Cupps isn’t so devoid of physical talent that he won’t improve or needs his actual contribution currently cut short. It seems the staff understands that.
 

 Cupps is also a year younger and given where he’s at now, it’s more likely he’ll contribute to winning basketball over the next three years moreso than Gunn. Of course, it’d be nice if they’re both ready to be starters next year. 

[str8baller]

12 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

They play different positions and different roles. 

If that part of the comparison was confusing you, substitute Steve Hart for Jordan Geronimo.  
 

The overall point remains the same, but there’s a little more parallel in positions for those that like that sort of thing. 

[OliviaPope40]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Six and one BAYBEEEEE!!

Dick Vitale is that you?

[BGleas]

Here's my thing on the Cupps, Gunn, Leal stuff. 

Yes, Cupps and Leal are going to give up some points due to lack of size and/or athleticism. They just are. Cupps will add size/bulk as he develops and will be fine, but yes right now his strength is an issue. 

Neither really contribute much offensively, though Cupps does provide a reliable ballhandler that can give Galloway/XJ a break. But, they also don't really take anything off the table offensively. 

With all of that said, I'll take the above and I think most coaches would too, over Gunn right now. Gunn has the length and athleticism, yet constantly gets out of position and beat defensively. 

I'll take the guys that are mostly in good position but get beat because of athleticism over the the guy that has the tools but is causing our defense stress because he's out of position and flying by shooters, going for pump fakes that allow penetration, etc. 

I'll take the guys that might not be adding much offensively vs the guy taking things away offensively. I'll take Cupps 0-for-1 in 20 minutes while providing extra ball handling over Gunn going 1-for-4 in 12 minutes with three bad shots. 

Gunn and Cupps both have upside, but a coach is always going to pick the guy he can trust more. 

[Stuhoo]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Here's my thing on the Cupps, Gunn, Leal stuff. 

Yes, Cupps and Leal are going to give up some points due to lack of size and/or athleticism. They just are. Cupps will add size/bulk as he develops and will be fine, but yes right now his strength is an issue. 

Neither really contribute much offensively, though Cupps does provide a reliable ballhandler that can give Galloway/XJ a break. But, they also don't really take anything off the table offensively. 

With all of that said, I'll take the above and I think most coaches would too, over Gunn right now. Gunn has the length and athleticism, yet constantly gets out of position and beat defensively. 

I'll take the guys that are mostly in good position but get beat because of athleticism over the the guy that has the tools but is causing our defense stress because he's out of position and flying by shooters, going for pump fakes that allow penetration, etc. 

I'll take the guys that might not be adding much offensively vs the guy taking things away offensively. I'll take Cupps 0-for-1 in 20 minutes while providing extra ball handling over Gunn going 1-for-4 in 12 minutes with three bad shots. 

Gunn and Cupps both have upside, but a coach is always going to pick the guy he can trust more. 

If I’m the staff I’m rolling with Cupps and Leal for the next three games, and then giving Gunn way more run against the cupcakes.

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

If I’m the staff I’m rolling with Cupps and Leal for the next three games, and then giving Gunn way more run against the cupcakes.

Agree. He needs to watch for awhile and get to a place where the game slows down for him. 

He also needs to find or understand his role offensively. He is not a shooter whatsoever. 

[IU - Kaulie]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Here's my thing on the Cupps, Gunn, Leal stuff. 

Yes, Cupps and Leal are going to give up some points due to lack of size and/or athleticism. They just are. Cupps will add size/bulk as he develops and will be fine, but yes right now his strength is an issue. 

Neither really contribute much offensively, though Cupps does provide a reliable ballhandler that can give Galloway/XJ a break. But, they also don't really take anything off the table offensively. 

With all of that said, I'll take the above and I think most coaches would too, over Gunn right now. Gunn has the length and athleticism, yet constantly gets out of position and beat defensively. 

I'll take the guys that are mostly in good position but get beat because of athleticism over the the guy that has the tools but is causing our defense stress because he's out of position and flying by shooters, going for pump fakes that allow penetration, etc. 

I'll take the guys that might not be adding much offensively vs the guy taking things away offensively. I'll take Cupps 0-for-1 in 20 minutes while providing extra ball handling over Gunn going 1-for-4 in 12 minutes with three bad shots. 

Gunn and Cupps both have upside, but a coach is always going to pick the guy he can trust more. 

This is so spot on.

I will take it one step further that Leal looked good on offense.  When he was bringing up the ball he was really pushing it.  He also had a couple nifty passes. The 3 he took didn’t go down but it looked really good with him putting it up.  A lot better than anything Gunn is hoisting up.

All of your takes on Gunn are 100% correct right now.  I like him but this is just where we are right now.

On an unrelated note, I wish (beg) CMW would find some more minutes for Kaleb Banks somewhere.

I think he can play a couple different spots.  He looked comfortable even bringing the ball up the court but I wouldn’t want him to do that against pressure but this is a kid that needs to play and I think he really helps us with just his movement and activity level.  There is a reason he is always around the ball making plays.  I see him being able to do a little bit of everything including the ability to hit the 3 and score ‘junk’ points.  He should still be getting more minutes.