Braylon Mullins (2025) SG - to UConn

[steubenhoosier]

12 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Nobody has blown off this year's roster, they've said it's very talented constantly.

"As a one off" ... do you agree this is Woody's most talented team yet? Regardless of how they came to IU - who cares (to your point) - I think everyone can agree it is. They're in Bloomington, so credit for that... how much credit is in the eye of the beholder. Until proven otherwise - the burden of proof is on the coach to show his plan works. We have missed on most of the recruits we prioritized in the fall, so whether the portal was the strategy again or not, we have to rely on it. 

This is not mutually exclusive with being dissatisfied with Woody or minimizing his personal impact.

Good for you. He's burned through a lot of good will with people, whether warranted or not. That's the state of things. People are going to be less forgiving coming off the season we had and the way it ended.

Just win

I did not say that anyone has blown off the roster. I said, or meant to say, that many on here have blown off this way of building a roster. There have been many comments that the purse strings were only loosened this one time, to save Woodson. And there have been multiple comments that buying “mercenaries “ won’t work long term. No one knows that. No one can predict what the deep pocketed boosters are going to do. Back to my analogy, if this team provides the return on investment we all hope for, why wouldn’t they continue on? Conversely, if this team bombs, why would they chase a bad investment?

As far as Woodson burning off good will, again who cares? A bunch of butthurt fans looking for excuses. So what if he had a glass of wine with his guys after a loss. So what if he said some things that didn’t sit well. Didn’t affect my life one bit and can’t imagine it did anything to turn anyone’s life upside down. Plenty of examples of coaches who were/are a**holes. Woodson didn’t get hired to make friends.

As far as the whole recruiting thing goes… just my opinion but the whole star rating thing is a joke. Basically the opinions based on competing at a lower level of competition. Until a guy gets on the court against other college athletes, the true value of the player is all conjecture. Getting 5 star players is awesome for the fanbase. Allows them to puff their chests and brag a bit. But give me a proven, experienced portal player 10 times out of 10 over a player who has 5 star potential.

And yes, I agree. All my opinions are predicated on winning. None of this matters if we don’t meet the expectations we all have 

[AH1971]

55 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Amazing! You must be able to see the future since this team hasn't played a single game this year.

Will we beat Southern Illinois University Edwardsville by more than we did Florida Gulf Coast last year (6 points)? 

What should we expect? B10 title and FF run - minimally - right? 

Thank you for your service clarifying what the standards are for IU under Mike Woodson. 

I’ve given my expectations for this team on multiple occasions and they haven’t changed.

[AH1971]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I’m not a stockholder of IU, I’m an alum. I root for the team because it’s where I went to school and it’s the school I feel a connection toward. If we become a school that just swaps in a team full of new mercenaries each year, what connection do they really have to the school? At that point you’re the Bloomington minor league basketball team, not the Indiana University Hoosiers.

 

You rooted for IU to lose and declared you weren’t watching this year. Your opinion should be valued the same as a Purdue or Kentucky fan.

[Home Jersey]

3 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I’ve given my expectations for this team on multiple occasions and they haven’t changed.

Not even being a smart a$$ when I say I haven't seen your expectations for this year amid all the other things you post about. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Just now, AH1971 said:

You rooted for IU to lose and declared you weren’t watching this year. Your opinion should be valued the same as a Purdue or Kentucky fan.

Put me on ignore then. You responding to every post of mine is weird, frankly, and contradicts your claim that my opinion “should be valued the same as a Purdue or Kentucky fan.”  

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Put me on ignore then. You responding to every post of mine is weird, frankly, and contradicts your claim that my opinion “should be valued the same as a Purdue or Kentucky fan.”  

I have no shame calling a Purdue or Kentucky fan a clown. Doesn’t take much effort to read through your nonsense and call it out as such.

[steubenhoosier]

23 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I’m not a stockholder of IU, I’m an alum. I root for the team because it’s where I went to school and it’s the school I feel a connection toward. If we become a school that just swaps in a team full of new mercenaries each year, what connection do they really have to the school? At that point you’re the Bloomington minor league basketball team, not the Indiana University Hoosiers.

I can’t stand Purdue, but it must be nice as hell to be a fan of that school’s basketball team.  You get to have a great coach, you get to win a ton, and you get to do it with a roster full of Indiana kids who come for the school, not the paycheck. We get none of those things.

I would argue that you are an investor. You’re emotionally invested in the program or you wouldn’t care enough to express your opinions here.

 I would also argue that if IU were to win at the highest levels, conference, tournament or you name it, you wouldn’t care if the team was made up of 1 year guys, 5 year guys, walk-ons from the local CYO league.

I would also argue that if this team wins at that level, you wouldn’t care that the team is comprised of almost entirely non-Indiana guys.

And finally, I’d argue that if the portal and NIL continues as it is, Painter’s model won’t continue to succeed. It took a once in a generation talent, not from Indiana by the way, for him to get to his first FF. Without Edey, that team of Indiana guys was a first weekend flameout.

 

[Home Jersey]

5 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

I did not say that anyone has blown off the roster. I said, or meant to say, that many on here have blown off this way of building a roster. There have been many comments that the purse strings were only loosened this one time, to save Woodson. And there have been multiple comments that buying “mercenaries “ won’t work long term. No one knows that. No one can predict what the deep pocketed boosters are going to do. Back to my analogy, if this team provides the return on investment we all hope for, why wouldn’t they continue on? Conversely, if this team bombs, why would they chase a bad investment?

As far as Woodson burning off good will, again who cares? A bunch of butthurt fans looking for excuses. So what if he had a glass of wine with his guys after a loss. So what if he said some things that didn’t sit well. Didn’t affect my life one bit and can’t imagine it did anything to turn anyone’s life upside down. Plenty of examples of coaches who were/are a**holes. Woodson didn’t get hired to make friends.

As far as the whole recruiting thing goes… just my opinion but the whole star rating thing is a joke. Basically the opinions based on competing at a lower level of competition. Until a guy gets on the court against other college athletes, the true value of the player is all conjecture. Getting 5 star players is awesome for the fanbase. Allows them to puff their chests and brag a bit. But give me a proven, experienced portal player 10 times out of 10 over a player who has 5 star potential.

And yes, I agree. All my opinions are predicated on winning. None of this matters if we don’t meet the expectations we all have 

Nobody cares about the goodwill. I am saying, that's the reality of the climate. Not sure why you expect disgruntled people to be all sunshine and roses before the team has played a game yet... doesn't make any sense to me. 

I generally agree on preferring portal talent. Building an entire roster from it doesn't seam sustainable but we'll see how much turnover there is next year ... IF they win this year. All of these opinions are predicated on winning. If they don't win, they won't be back. 

If they do win... great! Fantastic! I hope we can use the portal effectively, as we have this past offseason, to win again.

It does not give me any comfort knowing the portal is there when we miss out on long term recruitments we've prioritized. Pair that with not making the tournament last season and it's pretty obvious why the FMW thread is over 1000 pages... why would people's attitude be different before they see the team play. Getting 5 stars is cool, until you miss the tournament. Missing 5 stars you've spent a lot of time on, and missing the tournament, is a bad combination. 

If this year goes well, he'll have earned another year and we will see if he can do it again. If the year does not go well, he won't get another opportunity (whatever deity you pray to, willing). 

[Shooter]

37 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

I think in the age of NIL. and pay to play, this analogy is applicable.

If I’m a stockholder of a company, I don’t care where the profits come from, as long as they’re legitimate and legally obtained. Doesn’t matter if they come from the standard, tried and true product, or the new development. It all goes to the same bottom line.

Similarly, who cares how guys end up wearing the Candy Stripes? As long as they are here under the rules as they currently exist, what matters? If the product is a great one, if this team performs to the level we expect them to, I can’t imagine anyone on here who doesn’t have an agenda is going to care how a player became a contributor to the success of the team.

The question becomes, is Woodson’s method of building a team sustainable? Yet to be seen, but some here want to blow off this year’s roster as a one off. Until proven otherwise, what proof is there that he can’t continue to build high quality teams his way?

As the old saying goes, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. NIL and the portal are fairly new concepts. Traditional methods of building a team are a thing of the past. Recruiting high schoolers and expecting them to stay at beloved IU for 4-5 years is a fairy tale. Yes we need a mix, and Woodson’s teams have had one. I can’t wait to see what these guys do as a team. Will be much more interested in the product on the floor in March than the one who starts play in a few weeks. But I am going to hold judgment and not crucify a guy until the process plays out.

This is the mix of our projected top 8 in Woodson's fourth season:

1 kid recruited as a high schooler by the prior coach.

3 kids recruited by Woodson in the spring of their senior year HS after they decommitted from elsewhere.

4 transfers new to the program this season.

I do agree the best programs moving forward will have a combination of veteran "culture guys", high level freshmen, and impact transfers. But I don't see an overarching plan with Woodson. He is not identifying prospects who fit his program, landing them and developing them - he's scrambling for whatever talent becomes available in the spring. That directly led to our mess of a roster last season.

[steubenhoosier]

3 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Nobody cares about the goodwill. I am saying, that's the reality of the climate. Not sure why you expect disgruntled people to be all sunshine and roses before the team has played a game yet... doesn't make any sense to me. 

I generally agree on preferring portal talent. Building an entire roster from it doesn't seam sustainable but we'll see how much turnover there is next year ... IF they win this year. All of these opinions are predicated on winning. If they don't win, they won't be back. 

If they do win... great! Fantastic! I hope we can use the portal effectively, as we have this past offseason, to win again.

It does not give me any comfort knowing the portal is there when we miss out on long term recruitments we've prioritized. Pair that with not making the tournament last season and it's pretty obvious why the FMW thread is over 1000 pages... why would people's attitude be different before they see the team play. Getting 5 stars is cool, until you miss the tournament. Missing 5 stars you've spent a lot of time on, and missing the tournament, is a bad combination. 

If this year goes well, he'll have earned another year and we will see if he can do it again. If the year does not go well, he won't get another opportunity (whatever deity you pray to, willing). 

I don’t expect anyone to be sunshine and roses. However I also don’t understand the burying of Woodson before the season starts. The FMW thread continues on end. There are posters there who don’t say anything but FMW.

 I don’t know if Woodson is the guy or not. I don’t think he’s done anything yet that warrants him being fired, and I choose to hold my opinion until this season plays out. If this team plays to or above its potential, meets or exceeds our expectations, he deserves to stay. If it doesn’t, then it’s time to move on.

If that’s viewed as sunshine pumping, so be it. I’m content with my stance as a rational and realistic way to enter the season.

[steubenhoosier]

2 minutes ago, Shooter said:

This is the mix of our projected top 8 in Woodson's fourth season:

1 kid recruited as a high schooler by the prior coach.

3 kids recruited by Woodson in the spring of their senior year HS after they decommitted from elsewhere.

4 transfers new to the program this season.

I do agree the best programs moving forward will have a combination of veteran "culture guys", high level freshmen, and impact transfers. But I don't see an overarching plan with Woodson. He is not identifying prospects who fit his program, landing them and developing them - he's scrambling for whatever talent becomes available in the spring. That directly led to our mess of a roster last season.

And if they win, no one will care 

[Hoosierfan2017]

15 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

I would argue that you are an investor. You’re emotionally invested in the program or you wouldn’t care enough to express your opinions here.

 I would also argue that if IU were to win at the highest levels, conference, tournament or you name it, you wouldn’t care if the team was made up of 1 year guys, 5 year guys, walk-ins from the local CYO league.

I would also argue that if this team wins at level, you wouldn’t care that the team is comprised of almost entirely non-Indiana guys.

And finally, I’d argue that if the portal and NIL continues as it is, Painter’s model won’t continue to succeed. It took a once in a generation talent, not from Indiana by the way, for him to get to his first FF. Without Edey, that team of Indiana guys was a first weekend flameout.

 

Time will tell with Painter. No team will be completely filled with Indiana guys, but 3 of his 5 starters were Indiana guys and a fourth was from Illinois. He has a system/identity, and he fills his teams with guys who fit that identity. 

IU has no identity as a program. Maybe I wouldn’t care if we didn’t have any Indiana players if we were winning all the time, but I would still want the players to have an “Bob Knight basketball” mentality. Tough, hard nosed, hardworking, law-abiding. You don’t have to be from Indiana to be a Hoosier. Victor Oladipo was from the DMV but he was a Hoosier through and through.

We’re going into the fourth year of the Mike Woodson experience and I have absolutely no idea what a Mike Woodson basketball player is supposed to look like. Frankly, I don’t think Mike Woodson does either.

[Home Jersey]

1 minute ago, steubenhoosier said:

I don’t expect anyone to be sunshine and roses. However I also don’t understand the burying of Woodson before the season starts. The FMW thread continues on end. There are posters there who don’t say anything but FMW.

 I don’t know if Woodson is the guy or not. I don’t think he’s done anything yet that warrants him being fired, and I choose to hold my opinion until this season plays out. If this team plays to or above its potential, meets or exceeds our expectations, he deserves to stay. If it doesn’t, then it’s time to move on.

If that’s viewed as sunshine pumping, so be it. I’m content with my stance as a rational and realistic way to enter the season.

I don't view it as sunshine pumping.

I was ready to move on after last year. He's the coach so I want him to win.

Don't think our views are too drastically far apart.

I do have the stereotypical Italian-American short-fused temper, though. 

[Shooter]

4 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

And if they win, no one will care 

Yes "if" they win. Woodson tried to build a roster the same way last year, and we were terrible

[AH1971]

Just now, Shooter said:

Yes "if" they win. Woodson tried to build a roster the same way last year, and we were terrible

BS.

Woodson added one transfer who made any kind of impact and he was a lottery pick. Woodson’s biggest failure last year by far was not using the portal ENOUGH. Needed a guard or two to compliment the front court.

[Hoosierfan2017]

6 of the 12 players on last year’s roster were new. 7 of the 13 players on this year’s roster are new. You’re not going to build continuity/a system when half your guys each year are new to the program. 

[Shooter]

5 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

BS.

Woodson added one transfer who made any kind of impact and he was a lottery pick. Woodson’s biggest failure last year by far was not using the portal ENOUGH. Needed a guard or two to compliment the front court.

Yes he entered last spring with a roster that had several needs. Added two of his top players in Ware and Mgbako, but struck out on his guard targets. Overall result was the team he built stunk.

This year he seems to have done better in the portal which I am very happy with. Results are still pending. But there is a risk with waiting until the spring. It would be foolish to assume it will always go like this offseason, and not like last offseason.

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

6 of the 12 players on last year’s roster were new. 7 of the 13 players on this year’s roster are new. You’re not going to build continuity/a system when half your guys each year are new to the program. 

Of the 7 new players, 1 is a freshman and only 4 are expected to be apart of the rotation. Nobody plays 12 or 13 guys. You’re crazy if you think adding 4-5 new faces a year is outside the norm. It’s standard practice in this climate. 

[AH1971]

10 minutes ago, Shooter said:

Yes he entered last spring with a roster that had several needs. Added two of his top players in Ware and Mgbako, but struck out on his guard targets. Overall result was the team he built stunk.

This year he seems to have done better in the portal which I am very happy with. Results are still pending. But there is a risk with waiting until the spring. It would be foolish to assume it will always go like this offseason, and not like last offseason.

The way he constructed his roster last year isn’t remotely close to the way he constructed his roster this last year. Last year he added two Freshman and 3 transfers; Ware, an unproven but ultra-high ceiling prospect, along with Sparks and Walker who were never intended to be anything more than depth/rotational pieces.

This year he added 3 high-level, productive P4 transfers who all have a legitimate chance to play in the NBA and one of the better shooters in the country in Luke Goode. And that doesn’t even include 5* freshman Bryson Tucker. The way the two rosters were constructed are so far apart that they aren’t even comparable.

Striking out on Fland, Queen, and McNeely means we’re starting 21 year old Myles Rice, 23 year old Ballo and 20 year old returning B10 FOY Mgbako instead of starting three 18-19 year olds. I’ll take that all day long.

[rcbowla]

5 hours ago, HinnyHoosier said:

It's Forum Fight Friday!!! Let's get a live look at AH1971 & Hoosierfan2017:

Biggest fear at Ft.Wayne zoo.....one of the kangaroos deciding to jump the 3 ft rope and force me to fist fight for the honor of my family.  Pretty sure the roo would kick my @$$ I'm not gonna lie.