Style of Play

[HoosierAloha]

14 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

It did with respect to the fact we didn't have consistent outside threats around him.  If we had two or three guys outside who could shoot and slash, would likely have made a difference.  

That's my point. Woody chose to build the offense around throwing it into the post, he didn't have to. How much did TJD's draft stock improve because he got paint touches? How many NBA teams toss it on the post to a big and have them go to work? Ignoring TJD won't be a "big" at the next level. He built the offense around post touches because he didn't bring in the personnel and implement a modern offense. It's pretty much that simple. TJD and JHS are fantastic pieces to build a modern offense around. We didn't.

[HoosierInParadise]

That's my point. Woody chose to build the offense around throwing it into the post, he didn't have to. How much did TJD's draft stock improve because he got paint touches? How many NBA teams toss it on the post to a big and have them go to work? Ignoring TJD won't be a "big" at the next level. He built the offense around post touches because he didn't bring in the personnel and implement a modern offense. It's pretty much that simple. TJD and JHS are fantastic pieces to build a modern offense around. We didn't.

I agree with this. Another dimension that probably that went into the decision about the offense was who was able to be on the floor for defense. Woody didnt trust the defense of the guys that could help run a modern offense. Either way....IU is a mess that needs to be cleaned up.

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[Stuhoo]

57 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

That's interesting and convenient. There are plenty of good to great teams with a 5 that can't/won't shoot from outside. Actually, TJD would be amazing in plenty of those offenses getting easy buckets from PnR, handoffs/lobs from dribble drive, etc. It wasn't TJD that stopped us from implementing a modern offense.

 

100%.

TJD is an example of what could be with a more modern style of play. But without any slashing guards or wings we couldn't use Trayce as much away from the post. 

We had Trayce setting high screens for JHS and diving off of the JHS curl, but other than that we had Trayce in the post as the other offensive set that consistently paid off. With slashing guard/wings Trayce could have done the dive to the rim thing far more often.

Race, Miller, Trey, Tamar, Malik? The rest of our top seven had little or no ability to open up slashing lanes for Trayce. X had that ability better than anyone else but ah well...no Xavier. 

 

16 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

That's my point. Woody chose to build the offense around throwing it into the post, he didn't have to. How much did TJD's draft stock improve because he got paint touches? How many NBA teams toss it on the post to a big and have them go to work? Ignoring TJD won't be a "big" at the next level. He built the offense around post touches because he didn't bring in the personnel and implement a modern offense. It's pretty much that simple. TJD and JHS are fantastic pieces to build a modern offense around. We didn't.

 

Nope. Because other than JHS, we had our next five players that had little (Gallo) or no ability to play modern offense. Roster construction for modern offense matters. And if we're going to blame Woody I'd blame him more for a roster where most of the rotation players could not effectively do so. JG has the ability but has not developed. I question whether Tamar has that ability. Gunn and Banks may, but they were too young and raw. He inherited Leal, Duncomb, and Race, none of who can create offense. 

[go iu bb]

40 minutes ago, hoosiersoxfan said:

Losing Xavier Johnson this year didn't help either.  I'm not sure what happened with Geronimo, maybe it was health, but he took a major step back from the way he played at the end of last season.  He seemed to always be getting caught out of position and leaving the man he was guarding wide open.  The way he played at the end of last season he would have been a perfect fit last night to try to slow down Miami's athletic wings.

It's not unusual for players to show flashes of promise but are then never able to consistently play that well. An example is Justin Smith. It seems like he'd improve at the end of each season but would be right back to square one when the next season began.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

That's interesting and convenient. There are plenty of good to great teams with a 5 that can't/won't shoot from outside. Actually, TJD would be amazing in plenty of those offenses getting easy buckets from PnR, handoffs/lobs from dribble drive, etc. It wasn't TJD that stopped us from implementing a modern offense.

I don’t think Woody was necessarily saying that.  The fact that TJD was fifth in the conference in assists speaks to the fact it wasn’t simply throw it in to Trayce.  Post touches includes what you are talking about.  But ultimately we needed better guys around him.

[Golfman25]

34 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

That's my point. Woody chose to build the offense around throwing it into the post, he didn't have to. How much did TJD's draft stock improve because he got paint touches? How many NBA teams toss it on the post to a big and have them go to work? Ignoring TJD won't be a "big" at the next level. He built the offense around post touches because he didn't bring in the personnel and implement a modern offense. It's pretty much that simple. TJD and JHS are fantastic pieces to build a modern offense around. We didn't.

There is no magic wand which automatically gets players.  It was a choice between some continuity or blowing it up.  He had no college track record to “impress” recruits/transfers.  He does now.  This year and next will really tell where he is taking the program.  

[HoosierAloha]

14 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

It's not unusual for players to show flashes of promise but are then never able to consistently play that well. An example is Justin Smith. It seems like he'd improve at the end of each season but would be right back to square one when the next season began.

Absolutely, after XJ was done for the season he became a lot of things that he never was consistently. Just like the "last coach's players" line it's easy and convenient.

[HoosierAloha]

11 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I don’t think Woody was necessarily saying that.  The fact that TJD was fifth in the conference in assists speaks to the fact it wasn’t simply throw it in to Trayce.  Post touches includes what you are talking about.  But ultimately we needed better guys around him.

Which is my point, TJD wasn't the issue in implementing a modern offense. TJD had a pretty complete game outside of shooting. There are plenty of 5s on good to great teams that can't do what TJD can but he can do what they can. We chose not to implement that offense because of other reasons not TJD.

Better players would go a long way. That can be done through recruiting/portal or developing. I hope we land some portal players that can play in a modern offense.

[HoosierAloha]

12 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

There is no magic wand which automatically gets players.  It was a choice between some continuity or blowing it up.  He had no college track record to “impress” recruits/transfers.  He does now.  This year and next will really tell where he is taking the program.  

Completely agree with that. We took some baby steps in the first few years under Coach Woody. We need to take that giant leap soon which includes a few things we haven't seen consistently from his team yet. I'm cautiously hopeful.

[Muskie for three]

I really think IU . Is in a position to change style of play in the big . Break out the bags and buy or rent . The dogs to win the hunt . Just freaking out spend everybody . Get nothing but sec dogs and run the table . Oh and get your 24 25 guys .

[Hoosierfan2017]

Team needs shooters. We only took 15.5 a game. That’s 352nd in the country, last in the conference. You’re fighting an uphill battle taking so few threes in 2023 basketball. 

[Hoosier Roots]

42 minutes ago, Muskie for three said:

I really think IU . Is in a position to change style of play in the big . Break out the bags and buy or rent . The dogs to win the hunt . Just freaking out spend everybody . Get nothing but sec dogs and run the table . Oh and get your 24 25 guys .

Absolutely, someone needs to do it and with the resources IU has devoted to basketball it might as well be us. 
 

I think part of the reason the Big Ten has become so pigeonholed into a slow brooding unathletic style of basketball is because it’s the only style of basketball most of the conference can hope to produce at a high level. Our reputation seems to have scared away a lot of other types of players and turned into a self fulfilling prophecy. 
 

Penn st. had the right idea this season switching to a style of basketball that can succeed in the post season but I think they likely hit their ceiling. Someone else like MSU, UM, or IU will have to take the lead and hopefully it will be us. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

48 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Team needs shooters. We only took 15.5 a game. That’s 352nd in the country, last in the conference. You’re fighting an uphill battle taking so few threes in 2023 basketball. 

So much of this.  I guarantee offensive rebounding improves too if we let it fly.  

[Chris007]

If what's being said is true I think we will see a different style next season. I think the coaches want 4 guys on the court at all times who can take someone off the dribble. We'll see. It's going to be a different team for sure. I think the asking price by some of the players will be too high and IU will tell them to hit the road. 

[Golfman25]

7 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

So much of this.  I guarantee offensive rebounding improves too if we let it fly.  

As long as we find the guy who hit's them from the mid court sticker I'm in.  :) 

[bigrod]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

I think the asking price by some of the players will be too high and IU will tell them to hit the road. 

I'm not sure what this means. Are you saying current IU players or portal players or neither?

[Muskie for three]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

If what's being said is true I think we will see a different style next season. I think the coaches want 4 guys on the court at all times who can take someone off the dribble. We'll see. It's going to be a different team for sure. I think the asking price by some of the players will be too high and IU will tell them to hit the road. 

Sometimes you just got to eat it and spend some money . To much depends on 24 and 25 . To have a damn loser .

[Chris007]

Just now, bigrod said:

I'm not sure what this means. Are you saying current IU players or portal players or neither?

Current

[WayneFleekHoosier]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

If what's being said is true I think we will see a different style next season. I think the coaches want 4 guys on the court at all times who can take someone off the dribble. We'll see. It's going to be a different team for sure. I think the asking price by some of the players will be too high and IU will tell them to hit the road. 

For the love of all things, We need to keep Reneau.  So, so much potential.  I think he was underused at the end of this season when he finally started to settle down.  

[Chris007]

Just now, Muskie for three said:

Sometimes you just got to eat it and spend some money . To much depends on 24 and 25 . To have a damn loser .

I think we will pay transfer portal guys, I'm just saying what I'm hearing about bench guys coming back is crazy high