IUBB vs POTFB - Saturday, 2/4/23 @ 4:00 on ESPN

[hoosierbgh]

17 hours ago, southsidehoosier said:

Arizona comes to my mind 

That was the first team I thought of while I was typing my comment. 

 

There would be some poetic justice in seeing both Edey and the big guy for Arizona slamming elbows into each other all game long... and then both complain about what the other was doing. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Here is the photo ESPN used on Facebook... Is it just me or does this look very 80s?

And I love it

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[iu eyedoc]

1 hour ago, Hovadipo said:

TJD makes this stuff look so easy. I said it a month or so ago…his combine testing results will be something else. 

His big hit is going to come on his outside shooting. I think Woodson definitely wanted to expand his game, but he either has zero confidence in it or he just doesn't have it. He is literally 0/3...3... in his career from 3 pt range, I mean when they were pounding Bethune-Cookman or Jackson State, get some outside shots on tape.  I think he sorta has  Horace Grants game, but those guys are the running backs of the NBA, stars of old with little value in this era.

[DChoosier]

2 hours ago, Banksyrules said:

Do you get the impression that the staff are very conservative with playing the young freshman? I get Malik or JHS playing but for the sake of development do you think they hold the others back a bit? 

No. Not at all.

We are an “old” team but 2 of our top 7 players in the rotation are freshmen and if Gunn, who I think will be a good player, hit his shots and played good D he would be playing more. Whose minutes should Gunn and Leal have taken yesterday?
 We must lead the nation in worrying about how many minutes our 9-12 guys get. People complained about Lander not getting time, with 2 different coaches, and here he is barely playing now at WKU and shooting 30% (ie maybe there is a reason he didn’t play more here).

Gunn has the 9th most minutes on the team. I wasted 5 minutes and looked at the minutes played by the 9th man in other  programs including UW, UV and PU which are known as programs that develop guys:

9th in rotation

Gunn - 139 minutes

Purdue - 136

UVA - 101

Wiscy - 111

Zags - 99

Rutgers - 143

UNC - 116

Illinois - 317

UK - 146

You have to win games and there are only so many minutes available.

[str8baller]

6 hours ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

Enjoy him while he is here. :) ESPN has him at #20 on their '23 draft rankings. I have a feeling he may be a lottery pick before it's all said and done. 

And CBS has him at 35th. He’s not on nbadraft.nets board (I find that odd). 
 

So that’s exactly my point. His highest spot is 20th and if things hold he may not get a grade of guaranteed first round pick. In which case he’ll have a decision to make. 

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, iu eyedoc said:

His big hit is going to come on his outside shooting. I think Woodson definitely wanted to expand his game, but he either has zero confidence in it or he just doesn't have it. He is literally 0/3...3... in his career from 3 pt range, I mean when they were pounding Bethune-Cookman or Jackson State, get some outside shots on tape.  I think he sorta has  Horace Grants game, but those guys are the running backs of the NBA, stars of old with little value in this era.

The feedback he got from the NBA folks is that they are not concerned with his outside shooting, they wanted to see more P&R and finishing with either hand against rim protection, transition game, footwork, putting it on the floor, rebounding and blocks — what he’s been doing is what the GM’a/coaches wanted to see

[str8baller]

3 hours ago, realTomCrean said:

Think about from his perspective. Millions to play and develop in NBA. One injury and the dream could be gone 

Or he slips to the second round signs for about 1-2mil a year, only part of that is guaranteed, gets that same injury and the dream is gone.  Over half the guys drafted in the second round are in the g league on two way deals or overseas.  There will be guys staying making NIL more than that and in the spot light.  
 

Hopefully someone is giving him that perspective too, if he’s not getting first round guarantees from a bunch of teams out of the lottery. 

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, DChoosier said:

No. Not at all.

We are an “old” team but 2 of our top 7 players in the rotation are freshmen and if Gunn, who I think will be a good player, hit his shots and played good D he would be playing more. Whose minutes should Gunn and Leal have taken yesterday?
 We must lead the nation in worrying about how many minutes our 9-12 guys get. People complained about Lander not getting time, with 2 different coaches, and here he is barely playing now at WKU and shooting 30% (ie maybe there is a reason he didn’t play more here).

Gunn has the 9th most minutes on the team. I wasted 5 minutes and looked at the minutes played by the 9th man in other  programs including UW, UV and PU which are known as programs that develop guys:

9th in rotation

Gunn - 139 minutes

Purdue - 136

UVA - 101

Wiscy - 111

Zags - 99

Rutgers - 143

UNC - 116

Illinois - 317

UK - 146

You have to win games and there are only so many minutes available.

I’ll push back a bit but won’t keep the discussion going bc I know I’m beating my dead horse. (Lol)

Staff started and played Kopp and Stewart all year last year bc of exp and the “threat” of their virtually nonexistent outside shooting. They were and really have been focused on experience over talent/developing talent in game.
 

Race is the big example this season. Despite how well — much better than any other time this year — we played during that run without him, and how poorly he played his first game back, he was injected into the starting group again ag Minn and played 24-25 min and we almost lost. It’s still clear he’s not 100 percent, even Vitale was commenting on it yesterday, the mobility is not there, he was the first player in the game to 4 fouls, he wasn’t contributing much offensively and was at best ok defensively. This is not me disrespecting or not appreciating Race, we’re better with him playing, he is a smart, experienced player and his experience helped when he was put back in late, he was in perfect position when the PU player left his feet and had to throw a pass baseline leading to the steal, and then the inbounding — but Malik was clearly the better all around player yesterday, he looks to be getting past his foul issues, and during our big run of games it was JG, including a 30 min excellent game, and Malik that had us going with TJD up front - but then just stick Race right back in despite that bc he can play again? That’s not a good decision, it’s over-reliance on experience. However, Malik logged 20 min yesterday — 20 impactful, important minutes, so progress. I’m looking forward to seeing more of that and, hopefully, more of JG with TJD and/or Malik. The athletic, attacking play is better with them — and I don’t want to see us punked again by Rutgers

[DChoosier]

49 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I’ll push back a bit but won’t keep the discussion going bc I know I’m beating my dead horse. (Lol)

Staff started and played Kopp and Stewart all year last year bc of exp and the “threat” of their virtually nonexistent outside shooting. They were and really have been focused on experience over talent/developing talent in game.
 

I also got tired of the Kopp/Stewart “dependency” last year but we did not have positive alternatives.

[Josh]

22 hours ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Hah, sure. We are ranked. We were favored. Don’t ever refer to them as little brother again. 

I think your definition of little brother is flawed.

I grew up with an older brother who beat me up all the time.  After he'd play the bongo drums on my head he would always celebrate afterwards.  Celebrating the beating is what big brothers do

[HoosierHoopster]

26 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I also got tired of the Kopp/Stewart “dependency” last year but we did not have positive alternatives.

Yeah I understand that impression just don’t know if it was true — the staff didn’t try to develop anyone in game experience to try. Bates, for example,  wasn’t ready out of the gates, but Stewart? Gallo?  I would’ve rather seen either, and probably Gallo, developing rather than that terrible backcourt. Anyway, jmo —

[HoosierHoopster]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

I think your definition of little brother is flawed.

I grew up with an older brother who beat me up all the time.  After he'd play the bongo drums on my head he would always celebrate afterwards.  Celebrating the beating is what big brothers do

Ahh that explains a lot

 

:) :)

[realTomCrean]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

Or he slips to the second round signs for about 1-2mil a year, only part of that is guaranteed, gets that same injury and the dream is gone.  Over half the guys drafted in the second round are in the g league on two way deals or overseas.  There will be guys staying making NIL more than that and in the spot light.  
 

Hopefully someone is giving him that perspective too, if he’s not getting first round guarantees from a bunch of teams out of the lottery. 

Totally possible. We will know in the later Spring, until then I am okay with just enjoying what we have right now 

[Alford Bailey]

I feel pretty good about several of our guys shooting threes now ( even Galloway) IF our feet are set. We took some off balance  threes in the second half that were bad shots. If Gunn is the odd man out so be it. It’s gonna happen.

[Golfman25]

8 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

 

The entire Archie era with no tourney, to 9-11 in conference with a tourney barely, to 7-5 and top 20-ish. With all four freshman showing real signs of being key pieces.

In my opinion? If you cannot see the current trajectory of the program then what does it take to be satisfied?

New uniforms man.  It's the uniforms.  :) 

[Golfman25]

7 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I had a friend who spoke to CJ’s dad before the Illinois game and he got the impression CJ is not happy here either. I’m hoping he knows there is a lot of playing time up for grab’s next season plus more NIL money.

Whatever.  I know the kids want to play, but come on man.  Ideally, most freshmen should sit and learn.  You need them around 3-4 years to build a team and a program. 

[CSP]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yeah I understand that impression just don’t know if it was true — the staff didn’t try to develop anyone in game experience to try. Bates, for example,  wasn’t ready out of the gates, but Stewart? Gallo?  I would’ve rather seen either, and probably Gallo, developing rather than that terrible backcourt. Anyway, jmo —

That would have happened if Trey had a healthy summer, or season last year. 

It was easier to roll with what they had and sprinkle TG in with that. The messing with lineups isn't really something that should be done game to game. 

[Golfman25]

6 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

I wouldn’t like that. I never like to see anyone transfer, let alone Indiana kids. Doesn’t send a great message

Frankly, at this point it would say more about the player than the program.  Simply ask the kid -- who sits if I play you?  

[CSP]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The feedback he got from the NBA folks is that they are not concerned with his outside shooting, they wanted to see more P&R and finishing with either hand against rim protection, transition game, footwork, putting it on the floor, rebounding and blocks — what he’s been doing is what the GM’a/coaches wanted to see

Exactly. I'm glad you mentioned that. I don't think he really needs a shot at all to stick. 

He won't be doubled in the pros, ever. 

The PnR stuff and defending the rim were TJD keys. 

[CSP]

6 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

I wouldn’t like that. I never like to see anyone transfer, let alone Indiana kids. Doesn’t send a great message

Meh, thats addition by subtraction if they are those type of people. This program isn't centered around CJ Gunn and his playing time because quite frankly, in the mins he's gotten, he's been bad to awful. 

He can transfer and I'll take Essegian.