They Fired Tom Allen!

[Naturalhoosier]

13 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

1. Urban Meyer

2. Kliff Kingsbury

3. Kane Wommack

4. Antwaan Randle El

 

If you're gonna throw 5M at a dude... it isn't Tom Allen. It's Urban Meyer. If you actually care to ever win in football, it's Urban Meyer.

Is ARE coaching at this point?  Legit question. I don’t know his status. 

[Stuhoo]

13 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

1. Urban Meyer

2. Kliff Kingsbury

3. Kane Wommack

4. Antwaan Randle El

 

If you're gonna throw 5M at a dude... it isn't Tom Allen. It's Urban Meyer. If you actually care to ever win in football, it's Urban Meyer.

1. Urban Meyer is an excellent, winning football coach.
2. Urban Meyer, in my opinion, is a dirtbag.
3. There are excellent, winning football coaches that are not dirtbags.

Summary takeaway? A school does not need to hire a dirtbag to get an excellent, winning football coach.

[rayl456]

11 minutes ago, Naturalhoosier said:

Is ARE coaching at this point?  Legit question. I don’t know his status. 

ARE is the wide receivers coach for the Detroit Lions.

[go iu bb]

11 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

1. Urban Meyer is an excellent, winning football coach.
2. Urban Meyer, in my opinion, is a dirtbag.
3. There are excellent, winning football coaches that are not dirtbags.

Summary takeaway? A school does not need to hire a dirtbag to get an excellent, winning football coach.

Moot point because Urban Meyer wouldn't even consider coaching at IU. The only way that might happen is for an absolutely ridiculous amount of money, waaaaay more than IU is willing to spend on football. And even then he probably wouldn't be interested in this train wreck.

[Stuhoo]

And while Kingsbury would also not have interest in IUFB,  I am not sure why he is an attractive option for any team.

Kingsbury's head coaching record? 

• College: 36-38, 19-35 in conference.
• Pro: 28-37

Wommack makes $772k/$1.7m after bonuses. That could work.

Randle El has never been a head coach but he truly has a Mike Woodson affection for IU, and while he would be a dice roll as a P5 head coach, that could also work.

[Lebowski]

Folks, Meyer isn't going to coach IUFB. Nor is any big time established winning HC. It's a pipe dream to think this. This job isn't that kind of job. Nor is ARE a Coach Prime type hire. Come back down here on Earth 1 and evaluate the current and overall picture of IUFB.

Serious question, if, and it's a big if, this year's IUFB team goes bowling and wins said bowl; those advocating the termination of CTA still want him gone? Follow up questions, if you still think he should go, what are your expectations for IUFB? If you think he shouldn't go, is it as simple as bowl or bust for you?

[MemphisHoosier]

12 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

And while Kingsbury would also not have interest in IUFB,  I am not sure why he is an attractive option for any team.

Kingsbury's head coaching record? 

• College: 36-38, 19-35 in conference.
• Pro: 28-37

Wommack makes $772k/$1.7m after bonuses. That could work.

Randle El has never been a head coach but he truly has a Mike Woodson affection for IU, and while he would be a dice roll as a P5 head coach, that could also work.

I highly doubt Womack comes back to Bloomington to replace his friend and mentor while the seat is still warm.

[Hoosierfan2017]

28 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Serious question, if, and it's a big if, this year's IUFB team goes bowling and wins said bowl; those advocating the termination of CTA still want him gone? Follow up questions, if you still think he should go, what are your expectations for IUFB? If you think he shouldn't go, is it as simple as bowl or bust for you?

Honestly? Yes. I don’t like Allen’s personality. I find it embarrassing, to be frank. I think he’s bad at holding people accountable. His in-game management is not good. Far too often he plays ‘not to get blown out,’ versus playing to win. The OSU game this year, for example. No one can convince me that he went into that game with a game plan designed to win. 

As for expectations, I don’t really have any at this point. 6-7 wins more often than not would be nice. 

[LamarCheeks]

1 hour ago, rayl456 said:

I have often thought that Allen being hired as HC by IU was a really, really bad imitation of Gerry Faust being hired by Notre Dame back in 1981.  

I see your point, but it never felt that way to me. CTA actually did have have some college experience and even a little success -- but as a coordinator. Faust hadn't coached one second of college ball when he got the ND gig. 

To me, hiring CTA felt like the hirings of Bill Lynch and Mike Davis. Rather than perforn their due dilligence and conduct a national search, the ADs just took the path of least resistence and hired the interim coach. Clearly, neither was ready for a job like IU. 

When Glass announced the parting of the ways wth Wilson and Allen was there, I thought -- "That makes sense, he's gonna be the interim coach." But when Freddy said he had hired Allen for the permanent gig, I thought -- "Oh, no -- here we go again." 

 

[rayl456]

21 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

I see your point, but it never felt that way to me. CTA actually did have have some college experience and even a little success -- but as a coordinator. Faust hadn't coached one second of college ball when he got the ND gig. 

To me, hiring CTA felt like the hirings of Bill Lynch and Mike Davis. Rather than perforn their due dilligence and conduct a national search, the ADs just took the path of least resistence and hired the interim coach. Clearly, neither was ready for a job like IU. 

When Glass announced the parting of the ways wth Wilson and Allen was there, I thought -- "That makes sense, he's gonna be the interim coach." But when Freddy said he had hired Allen for the permanent gig, I thought -- "Oh, no -- here we go again." 

 

Good point!  I knew he'd been a coordinator prior to IU... but still thought of him as a high school coach.  Ofc, Notre Dame didn't waste time moving on from Gerry when it became obvious he wasn't going to lead them back to the land of milk and honey.  No forty years wandering in the desert with him for ND.

[Lebowski]

41 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Honestly? Yes. I don’t like Allen’s personality. I find it embarrassing, to be frank. I think he’s bad at holding people accountable. His in-game management is not good. Far too often he plays ‘not to get blown out,’ versus playing to win. The OSU game this year, for example. No one can convince me that he went into that game with a game plan designed to win. 

As for expectations, I don’t really have any at this point. 6-7 wins more often than not would be nice. 

Thanks for sharing and there's a lot to unpack here. I don't want to discuss the specifics of that OSU game because I don't think it's really necessary in the grand scheme of things. I'll just say that I don't agree with you about his game plan. But like you said, no one can convince you and I'm certainly not going to try. I'd rather discuss the bigger picture if that makes sense. You're definitely bring up some valid points about accountability. I've already mentioned on here that his loyalty will most likely be the reason for him ultimately getting let go. That trait is something you want in a friend but when it comes to performing a job sometimes being loyal to a friend doesn't work and makes matters worse. As it did for him. 

Your expectations are actually pretty fair considering the history of IUFB.

Is it safe to say you never liked the hire to begin with? If so, did you still feel the same way when they were ranked 11th in 2020 and had 8 wins in 2019?  Basically asking if you felt the same when IUFB reached well beyond your own expectations. Like way above your ceiling. If you did like the hire, when did it change for you? Like when the wheels fell off after 2020?

Again, thanks for sharing and appreciate it. 

[Lebowski]

19 minutes ago, rayl456 said:

Good point!  I knew he'd been a coordinator... but still thought of him as a high school coach.  Ofc, Notre Dame didn't waste time moving on from Gerry when it became obvious he wasn't going to lead them back to the land of milk and honey.  No forty years wandering in the desert with him for ND.

Not that any of this matters but Coach Prime was also a high school coach with zero experience coaching at the college level when he got hired at Jackson State. To this day, he still has less college coaching experience than CTA. I'm just pointing that out because personally, I don't think it matters if someone coached high school football. What matters is what kind of other coaches you surround yourself with and how you manage your staff. X's and O's don't change at any level. Just my two cents. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

1. Urban Meyer is an excellent, winning football coach.
2. Urban Meyer, in my opinion, is a dirtbag.
3. There are excellent, winning football coaches that are not dirtbags.

Summary takeaway? A school does not need to hire a dirtbag to get an excellent, winning football coach.

Sure he can be a scumbag... find a football coach that doesn't have skeletons in their closet... or I should say, find a good football coach without any.

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

And while Kingsbury would also not have interest in IUFB,  I am not sure why he is an attractive option for any team.

Kingsbury's head coaching record? 

• College: 36-38, 19-35 in conference.
• Pro: 28-37

Wommack makes $772k/$1.7m after bonuses. That could work.

Randle El has never been a head coach but he truly has a Mike Woodson affection for IU, and while he would be a dice roll as a P5 head coach, that could also work.

As for Kingsbury, he just brings a fun offense. And Indiana needs that again IMO. Kevin Wilson brought an excitement to Indiana football. God awful defenses that ruined multiple seasons, but something seemed to be building before he was fired with back to back bowl games. And how many 5 win teams can boast a top offense in the nation? That's my only reason for Kingsbury.

[NashvilleHoosier]

I can't believe Urban Meyer's name is even being brought up, for so many different reasons. So I'll just take it as a joke.

If this season ends up another clunker, regardless of money, I think we have to move on. If we end up in a bowl game, he rightfully stays. Since I felt like the UofL game was pretty much a must have to make it to a bowl game, I'm now assuming this will be another clunker.

Looking around the rest of CFB, it seems fairly likely there will be fewer power 5 jobs open this offseason that most. Which makes it even more important for us to move on, where we'd have less competition for a decent coach, like Kane Wommack. He's been here, he's seen you can have success here, he's seen you can recruit here, and (provided he paid attention at least to a the first couple of games the season after he left) he's seen fans will show up. He's going to get a better job than South Alabama so why not take that shot?

[LamarCheeks]

Of names of potential candidates should we part ways with CTA, we're missing an obvious one ... 

BRING COACH O TO B-TOWN!!! 
 

 

[JSHoosier]

Eh, regardless of how anyone feels about Urban Meyer IU wouldn't make that call and he'd probably set a record time hanging up if they did.

Not to defend Allen, I've called for his termination more than a few times, but any coach is going to have their work cut out for them here.  It takes something special to be the first to 700 losses.

[craigyv88]

3 hours ago, Lebowski said:

Folks, Meyer isn't going to coach IUFB. Nor is any big time established winning HC. It's a pipe dream to think this. This job isn't that kind of job. Nor is ARE a Coach Prime type hire. Come back down here on Earth 1 and evaluate the current and overall picture of IUFB.

Serious question, if, and it's a big if, this year's IUFB team goes bowling and wins said bowl; those advocating the termination of CTA still want him gone? Follow up questions, if you still think he should go, what are your expectations for IUFB? If you think he shouldn't go, is it as simple as bowl or bust for you?

That's a fair question, I think it depends on what fashion that bowl appearance would come by.  If it's taking care of Akron then barely beating the four worst teams the rest of the way and going to the Quick Lane Bowl, my mind doesn't change.  However if the defense is more consistent, Tayven continues to improve, and the team wins at least one game they really weren't supposed to I would reconsider.  

Rather than expecting a specific win total, I just want to see the team play consistent, competitive, smart, and be fun to watch.  The program feels pretty flat under Allen and finishing 123rd in 2021 and 100th in 2022 in total offense will do that (115th so far this year).  Allen is a good defensive mind and I appreciate his passion for the program but I feel the sample size amply points to it not working out.  And in context 2019 and 2020 seem to mostly indicate what can happen with top notch coordinators, actually getting a break in the schedule, and some other non-recurring factors.  Micah Parsons opting out of the 2020 PSU game didn't hurt anything either.

Also, not directly related to your post but I disagree with the general notions that IU can't do any better or that we should throw our hands up in the air because no one else has won here either.  For various reasons I think Justin Frye, Manny Diaz, Kane Wommack, Jason Candle, Sean Lewis, Tyson Helton, and Ryan Grubb would all be upgrades imo that would realistically take the IU job.  I would also be in favor of trying Randle El purely for the buzz it could inject into the program.

 

[Lebowski]

19 hours ago, craigyv88 said:

That's a fair question, I think it depends on what fashion that bowl appearance would come by.  If it's taking care of Akron then barely beating the four worst teams the rest of the way and going to the Quick Lane Bowl, my mind doesn't change.  However if the defense is more consistent, Tayven continues to improve, and the team wins at least one game they really weren't supposed to I would reconsider.  

Rather than expecting a specific win total, I just want to see the team play consistent, competitive, smart, and be fun to watch.  The program feels pretty flat under Allen and finishing 123rd in 2021 and 100th in 2022 in total offense will do that (115th so far this year).  Allen is a good defensive mind and I appreciate his passion for the program but I feel the sample size amply points to it not working out.  And in context 2019 and 2020 seem to mostly indicate what can happen with top notch coordinators, actually getting a break in the schedule, and some other non-recurring factors.  Micah Parsons opting out of the 2020 PSU game didn't hurt anything either.

Also, not directly related to your post but I disagree with the general notions that IU can't do any better or that we should throw our hands up in the air because no one else has won here either.  For various reasons I think Justin Frye, Manny Diaz, Kane Wommack, Jason Candle, Sean Lewis, Tyson Helton, and Ryan Grubb would all be upgrades imo that would realistically take the IU job.  I would also be in favor of trying Randle El purely for the buzz it could inject into the program.

 

Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. 

So a bowl qualification for only the fourteenth time (four of those being coached by CTA - 30.7% of IUFBs total bowl count) and winning only its fourth in IUFBs 136 year history would still want you to remove a coach that actually accomplished this for the program. Read that sentence again. 

I'm not clear on your expectations for IUFB but I'm under the assumption based on your response that your expectations is maybe something like an Iowa; where bowl appearances, winning more than 7 games is a consistency, every now and then top 20 rankings and in a conference championship race? If that's the case, that has never happened under any coach throughout IUFB's entire 136 years of existence. Read that last sentence again. The winningest coach in program history, Bob McMillin, had 7 winning seasons out of 14 and was not consistent. Those 7 win seasons were ebb and flow and spread out throughout his career. If it's just you want a team that 'plays consistent, competitive, smart, and fun to watch' than I've got nothing for ya because all of that is completely subjective. For example, I think this season alone IUFB has played consistent, competitive, smart, and I have enjoyed watching them. Personally, I don't think that's a valid reason to terminate CTA. But that's just me. I mean the most consistent thing IUFB has been the last 6 years is having a head coach with bowl appearances multiple times. 

I get it though. All of us probably get it. All of us want a coach that will come in and create something magical that we've never had in 136 years. But a coach that does that will not coach here for 4 years yet alone 14 years. A coach that accomplishes bowl consistency here at IUFB is getting hired somewhere else because that coach will not stay at a historically bad school like IUFB. That's just the way it is, unfortunately. Unless. Unless, of course there's a coach that considers IUFB a dream job.

EDIT: IUFB has 13 total bowl appearances. Making corrections to stats regarding bowl games. 

[TTT]

33 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. 

So a bowl qualification for only the eleventh time (four of those being coached by CTA - 36% of IUFBs total bowl count) and winning only its fourth in IUFBs 136 year history would still want you to remove a coach that actually accomplished this for the program. Read that sentence again. 

I'm not clear on your expectations for IUFB but I'm under the assumption based on your response that your expectations is maybe something like an Iowa; where bowl appearances, winning more than 7 games is a consistency, every now and then top 20 rankings and in a conference championship race? If that's the case, that has never happened under any coach throughout IUFB's entire 136 years of existence. Read that last sentence again. The winningest coach in program history, Bob McMillin, had 7 winning seasons out of 14 and was not consistent. Those 7 win seasons were ebb and flow and spread out throughout his career. If it's just you want a team that 'plays consistent, competitive, smart, and fun to watch' than I've got nothing for ya because all of that is completely subjective. For example, I think this season alone IUFB has played consistent, competitive, smart, and I have enjoyed watching them. Personally, I don't think that's a valid reason to terminate CTA. But that's just me. I mean the most consistent thing IUFB has been the last 6 years is having a head coach with bowl appearances multiple times. 

I get it though. All of us probably get it. All of us want a coach that will come in and create something magical that we've never had in 136 years. But a coach that does that will not coach here for 4 years yet alone 14 years. A coach that accomplishes bowl consistency here at IUFB is getting hired somewhere else because that coach will not stay at a historically bad school like IUFB. That's just the way it is, unfortunately. Unless. Unless, of course there's a coach that considers IUFB a dream job.

Dream job… and that would be none other than T.A. because he considered it a dream to land in any power 5 job….if he could just turn the corner with his on the job training.

[JSHoosier]

1 hour ago, Lebowski said:

Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. 

So a bowl qualification for only the eleventh time (four of those being coached by CTA - 36% of IUFBs total bowl count) and winning only its fourth in IUFBs 136 year history would still want you to remove a coach that actually accomplished this for the program. Read that sentence again. 

I'm not clear on your expectations for IUFB but I'm under the assumption based on your response that your expectations is maybe something like an Iowa; where bowl appearances, winning more than 7 games is a consistency, every now and then top 20 rankings and in a conference championship race? If that's the case, that has never happened under any coach throughout IUFB's entire 136 years of existence. Read that last sentence again. The winningest coach in program history, Bob McMillin, had 7 winning seasons out of 14 and was not consistent. Those 7 win seasons were ebb and flow and spread out throughout his career. If it's just you want a team that 'plays consistent, competitive, smart, and fun to watch' than I've got nothing for ya because all of that is completely subjective. For example, I think this season alone IUFB has played consistent, competitive, smart, and I have enjoyed watching them. Personally, I don't think that's a valid reason to terminate CTA. But that's just me. I mean the most consistent thing IUFB has been the last 6 years is having a head coach with bowl appearances multiple times. 

I get it though. All of us probably get it. All of us want a coach that will come in and create something magical that we've never had in 136 years. But a coach that does that will not coach here for 4 years yet alone 14 years. A coach that accomplishes bowl consistency here at IUFB is getting hired somewhere else because that coach will not stay at a historically bad school like IUFB. That's just the way it is, unfortunately. Unless. Unless, of course there's a coach that considers IUFB a dream job.

I'd prefer we cross that bridge if/when we came to it.  At least than we'd have something to try and sell and build off of.