IU Basketball News and Notes

[Brass Cannon]

9 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Yeah, I agree. You can only get away with it so long. To me it’s been amazing how long and strong the fanbase has tried to propel this program. I’ve been proud of that.

Seems like enough is enough. I DO think if DeVries put together a top 10 roster in the off-season the hype machine would have been in action and fans woulda been ready to go. As it’s gone, most have lowered their expectations and settled into a wait and see approach.

Imo, it’s a good setup for DDV, but for the program overall it’s a drop to normalcy.


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I don’t know if enough people follow recruiting rankings for that to be enough.  Certainly would have helped though and if the football team was disappointing maybe.  
 

Now I do think the fans come back real quick if we start looking good. 

[str8baller]

56 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I always felt the woody hire was the last one the team would get the benefit of the doubt with.  Now a coach has to earn the fans. 
 

I feel like that’s the official confirmation that we are no longer a basketball school. And that would have happened regardless of how the football team did 

I don’t think Woody got the benefit of the doubt. He was temporarily buoyed by things like Knight publicly coming back, making the tourney, and then TJDs final year. Archie killed the remaining goodwill for the program.

[Brass Cannon]

37 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I don’t think Woody got the benefit of the doubt. He was temporarily buoyed by things like Knight publicly coming back, making the tourney, and then TJDs final year. Archie killed the remaining goodwill for the program.

Knight coming back and TJDs final year came after woody got started.  There was excitement for an IU legend returning to campus as Ill founded as that was 

[Home Jersey]

58 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Yeah, I agree. You can only get away with it so long. To me it’s been amazing how long and strong the fanbase has tried to propel this program. I’ve been proud of that.

Imo, it’s a good setup for DDV, but for the program overall it’s a drop to normalcy.

IMO the "drop to normalcy" became a given with Archie's 20 point loss to IPFW. Fans have found a few glimmers of hope since then, but on the whole it's been a slow and painful descent for decades. That felt like a moment that really deflated the fanbase though. 

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I always felt the woody hire was the last one the team would get the benefit of the doubt with.  Now a coach has to earn the fans. 
 

I feel like that’s the official confirmation that we are no longer a basketball school. And that would have happened regardless of how the football team did 

IU is absolutely a football school now. Ask any student there... they'll tell you.

We are a football school with a rich basketball history. We have the potential to be an "everything" school if DDV can get us on the right track on the basketball side.

[8bucks]

16 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

IMO the "drop to normalcy" became a given with Archie's 20 point loss to IPFW. Fans have found a few glimmers of hope since then, but on the whole it's been a slow and painful descent for decades. That felt like a moment that really deflated the fanbase though. 

IU is absolutely a football school now. Ask any student there... they'll tell you.

We are a football school with a rich basketball history. We have the potential to be an "everything" school if DDV can get us on the right track on the basketball side.

Not just the students. We get a top 50 bball recruit and even this board spends little time discussing. That thread is not even on the front page when I pull up the site. 

[HoosierHoopster]

34 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

IMO the "drop to normalcy" became a given with Archie's 20 point loss to IPFW. Fans have found a few glimmers of hope since then, but on the whole it's been a slow and painful descent for decades. That felt like a moment that really deflated the fanbase though. 

IU is absolutely a football school now. Ask any student there... they'll tell you.

We are a football school with a rich basketball history. We have the potential to be an "everything" school if DDV can get us on the right track on the basketball side.

I don’t think we’re a football school because of a 2 year run with new coach. Current students  will say so bc that’s sll they know, after Woody. We start winning well again in bball, and we’re immediately a recognized bball program getting noise again. 

[Home Jersey]

3 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I don’t think we’re a football school because of a 2 year run with new coach. Current students  will say so bc that’s sll they know, after Woody. We start winning well again in bball, and we’re immediately a recognized bball program getting noise again. 

I think the students who make up the university community today are the best authority to say if it's currently a basketball or football school. Fun but meaningless distinction, really. Agree if we do well in bball again we will be recognized for that. But I think it'll make us seen as an "everything" school. I don't see IU football taking a backseat to basketball anytime soon.

[Hoosierfan2017]

It’s been a decade since our last legitimately good basketball season. It’s been over two decades since we last made it past the sweet 16 (which we’ve done only once in the past 32 years). The Woodson hire showed IU wasn’t serious about winning, and the Devries hire showed that an established coach isn’t coming to save the program. 

Meanwhile we’re 20-2 over our last 22 football games and on the verge of our second straight playoff appearance. Add in the fact that college football is far more popular than college basketball, and I’d say we’re definitely a football school. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Not just the students. We get a top 50 bball recruit and even this board spends little time discussing. That thread is not even on the front page when I pull up the site. 

Football is riding high and having a historic season and just rolling with confidence.

Basketball is hoping to be a tournament team and that’s a 50/50 situation.

Both recruits we’ve landed are long term assets with hard to envision immediate impact at the level we want to achieve. We lose basically all of our starters this year again. It’s just not a vision of a top winning program to an outsider. Maybe the prove people wrong, but the vision is we are years off of being hyper competitive. None of this helps.


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[HoosierHoopster]

23 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I think the students who make up the university community today are the best authority to say if it's currently a basketball or football school. Fun but meaningless distinction, really. Agree if we do well in bball again we will be recognized for that. But I think it'll make us seen as an "everything" school. I don't see IU football taking a backseat to basketball anytime soon.

I tend to think Cig stays because he’s fully supported and has us already winning on a big level, but you have to know the real football schools will come calling. If he leaves IU crashes back down fast. If he stays the U could be s strong fb program for some time. Disagree students determine whether we’re a football or bball program but it’s all just discussion and for fun.

The bball program remains a slesping giant. It wasn’t that long ago that Obama was picking IU to win it all on national tv, Cody and Vic were huge, and a mediocre coach in Crean had the U with the nation’s longest #1 ranking. All it takes is the right coach with support from the AD. It looks like we may have that again but we’ll know in a couple seasons or so whether that looks to pan out.

Hell we’re already a long-time elite soccer school, Moren has the women’s program working its way onto the national stage, Cig is legit, and maybe, just maybe we’re on the cusp with DeVries. He looks to be cut from the same cloth as Cig

[Home Jersey]

29 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I tend to think Cig stays because he’s fully supported and has us already winning on a big level, but you have to know the real football schools will come calling. If he leaves IU crashes back down fast. If he stays the U could be s strong fb program for some time. Disagree students determine whether we’re a football or bball program but it’s all just discussion and for fun.

The bball program remains a slesping giant. It wasn’t that long ago that Obama was picking IU to win it all on national tv, Cody and Vic were huge, and a mediocre coach in Crean had the U with the nation’s longest #1 ranking. All it takes is the right coach with support from the AD. It looks like we may have that again but we’ll know in a couple seasons or so whether that looks to pan out.

Hell we’re already a long-time elite soccer school, Moren has the women’s program working its way onto the national stage, Cig is legit, and maybe, just maybe we’re on the cusp with DeVries. He looks to be cut from the same cloth as Cig

Yeah, I guess it depends how you view what makes a school one or the other. Is it the history? Is it the fan engagement? Is it being prioritized by the university administration? Does it depend on inherent advantages, like being located in a fertile recruiting ground? 

I'd say you can make a case for IU football over IU basketball in all those categories. More high level football success in these two years than basically the past 30 years of basketball. Fan enthusiasm way higher for IUFB. Indiana has good high school basketball and a great culture around that, but Bloomington is also within a 4 hour driving radius of a lot of good high school football. And, in terms of financial/administrative support... I think it's pretty clear the AD has prioritized football for the foreseeable future. Long term that should benefit basketball too, but short term, when push comes to shove, football is going to get the discretionary dollars.

That said, I agree that DDV may be exactly the kind of coach the basketball program needs to become relevant again. No doubt the excitement will be there for basketball if the product is clearly improved. 

[cthomas]

14 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I tend to think Cig stays because he’s fully supported and has us already winning on a big level, but you have to know the real football schools will come calling. If he leaves IU crashes back down fast. If he stays the U could be s strong fb program for some time. Disagree students determine whether we’re a football or bball program but it’s all just discussion and for fun.

The bball program remains a slesping giant. It wasn’t that long ago that Obama was picking IU to win it all on national tv, Cody and Vic were huge, and a mediocre coach in Crean had the U with the nation’s longest #1 ranking. All it takes is the right coach with support from the AD. It looks like we may have that again but we’ll know in a couple seasons or so whether that looks to pan out.

Hell we’re already a long-time elite soccer school, Moren has the women’s program working its way onto the national stage, Cig is legit, and maybe, just maybe we’re on the cusp with DeVries. He looks to be cut from the same cloth as Cig

I've been a basketball guy since the late '50's. I also followed IU football. Since Cignetti got here I have shifted my main interest to football. Part of the reason was the never ending negatively in the various fire the coach threads. Most of it, however, was the overwhelmingly positive momentum that Coach Cignetti brought to what had been a dismal IU football program. I haven't followed much relating to IU basketball and I probably won't until this glorious football season is over. Coach Cignetti is to IU football what Coach Knight was to IU basketball and I'm just happy that I am here for it.

[HoosierHoopster]

5 minutes ago, cthomas said:

I've been a basketball guy since the late '50's. I also followed IU football. Since Cignetti got here I have shifted my main interest to football. Part of the reason was the never ending negatively in the various fire the coach threads. Most of it, however, was the overwhelmingly positive momentum that Coach Cignetti brought to what had been a dismal IU football program. I haven't followed much relating to IU basketball and I probably won't until this glorious football season is over. Coach Cignetti is to IU football what Coach Knight was to IU basketball and I'm just happy that I am here for it.

I hear you. Cig has certainly brought a great deal of fresh air to a program that was just crap for many years (though worth remembering IU did go to the Rose Bowl once, I’m sure you remember). 
I’m a IU bball lifer. When you grow up watching 3 NC teams, the last while you were at IU, and even roughly a decade after of IU as the cream of men’s basketball, that’s your compass. It’s great that IU is suddenly winning in football over 2 seasons but that doesn’t change the landscape for me. Our AD picked DeVries with the same approach Cig was picked. I expect we’ll see IU winning again pretty soon, and with that cones the spotlight, the uptick in recruiting, the uptick in portal and blam IU will quickly be “back” imo.
That Bilas is already out there saying DeVries was one of the top hires speaks volumes. The negativity has been around for a long time, a lot of ut was deserved with the crap Miller and then Woody put on the floor, but a lot of it started with the whole RMK firing fallout, and that just is what it is. I think with an actual bball mind, the first since Sampson, things will trend positive soon

[cthomas]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I hear you. Cig has certainly brought a great deal of fresh air to a program that was just crap for many years (though worth remembering IU did go to the Rose Bowl once, I’m sure you remember). 
I’m a IU bball lifer. When you grow up watching 3 NC teams, the last while you were at IU, and even roughly a decade after of IU as the cream of men’s basketball, that’s your compass. It’s great that IU is suddenly winning in football over 2 seasons but that doesn’t change the landscape for me. Our AD picked DeVries with the same approach Cig was picked. I expect we’ll see IU winning again pretty soon, and with that cones the spotlight, the uptick in recruiting, the uptick in portal and blam IU will quickly be “back” imo.
That Bilas is already out there saying DeVries was one of the top hires speaks volumes. The negativity has been around for a long time, a lot of ut was deserved with the crap Miller and then Woody put on the floor, but a lot of it started with the whole RMK firing fallout, and that just is what it is. I think with an actual bball mind, the first since Sampson, things will trend positive soon

I hope you are right. I started watching IU basketball in the McCracken years with Jimmy Rayl and those guys. Then the VanArsdale years were great. I saw the entire Coach Knight tenure. I think Coach DeVries has a chance to be the "guy". It's going to take me a while to get my enthusiasm back for IU basketball. For now, I'm enjoying the hell out the Cig era.

[Pagoda]

I've never been happier with IU athletics, at least in the modern era -- let's call that after the late 90's so we don't debate old eras that were different.

Are we a BB or FB school?  Doesn't really matter.  I'd say BB, that's still what we know best.  Can FB be the dominate focus at a BB school?  Yes.  CFB is 4-5x bigger than CBB.  IU fans fundamentally love FB like the whole country does, so when IUFB is good it's very easy to get very into CFB and the magnitude of the games and the huge gameday experiences.  

As long as IUFB is a ranked program in the playoff mix (I know we're a bit more than that right now!), it's going take fan attention away from MBB until the IUFB season ends.  But the trade off is worth it.  CFB makes basically all the money and creates the most exposure, and if you want to be a relevant school in college sports it's 95% down to your CFB program.  And IUBB will have enough support to get by.

I'm pretty pleased with what's happening with MBB.  Okay, first off, Scott and IU have somehow turned our football program into a good one that competes with programs that have 2x our resources.  Absolutely amazing.  Literally.  And to do that, IU is putting a lot more into the IUFB staff and donors are putting more into FB NIL.

Now, despite doing all that, work is still being done on MBB.  It's pretty clear there was a political struggle, and when he could, Scott fired Woody's sorry behind midseason(!) and paid him a $6.5M lump sum to get out (that was the negotiated buyout).  Then he selected CDD and paid a $6M buyout to cryin' West Virginia to get him.  He's paying CDD 5th most in the conference and he gave CDD a top-5 or 10 staff budget (definitely tops the conference) and ~$10M for players (#10-20 in the country).  That's enough to build a strong program.  This is serious effort on MBB, especially given what's happening across the parking lot in the most important college sport.

Of course the jury is still out on CDD.  I'm not sure how well he'll do here.  And some of our fans more interested in MBB may want more resources poured into MBB and a faster turnaround.  But, with CFB being the dominant sport and IU still being a fairly small athletic department in the P4, that's unlikely.

What I see right now with our MBB program is our AD appears to be more in control, it's been given legit resources, and the new coach appears to be good at coaching.  This could work, not sure I can ask for more than that.  Fixing 30 years of mediocrity and four recent years of serious Woody damage is going to take two to three years.  I get some don't like that timeline, but rebuilding any sort of organization, be it a company or a sports program, takes a few years 99% of the time.

The last 30 years of IU athletics have stunk and I complained a lot and often grew apathetic.  I don't know the future, I'm sure there will be ups and downs, but overall I see an athletic dept being run pretty darn well.  I don’t want to be someone never happy with IU sports, so my approach here is I may as well enjoy this and hopefully it lasts a long time.

[str8baller]

10 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Knight coming back and TJDs final year came after woody got started.  There was excitement for an IU legend returning to campus as Ill founded as that was 

I don’t remember any excitement when Woody was hired. Last year  I went back through the thread on here from when he was hired. “Excitement “ is definitely not the term I would use. I do remember a lot of crowing about Archie when he was hired.  
 

In any event, it isn’t about one single person. IU is just currently a trash program from a results standpoint that’s an accumulation of 25 years of crap. I think some of us on here are blind to it because we watch anyways. I seriously doubt any supposed “blue blood” in any sport has went through a 25 yr run as bad as IU basketball. Reading online the other day I saw an Arizona fan joke about how perpetually “disappointing “ their program is—they haven’t been to a FF in almost 25 yrs. And all I could think to myself is “buddy, you have no idea…”

[str8baller]

8 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The bball program remains a slesping giant. It wasn’t that long ago that Obama was picking IU to win it all on national tv, Cody and Vic were huge, and a mediocre coach in Crean had the U with the nation’s longest #1 ranking.

That was over a decade ago. 
 

Also, I have to say that our high point in the last 25 yrs being the one time we were ranked #1, a celebrity picked us to win the tourney, and we flamed out in the S16 is kind of sad. That would be something a school like Nebraska or Florida St would look back fondly on. Schools like UConn, Duke, UK, etc…would consider that a low-light. 
 

I don’t know what we are, but it’s hard to make the case we’re a basketball school. I kind of think we nominally are based on facilities/budget, etc… but I am not sure that’s even the case. We’re pouring a ton of money into football. If Cig and CDD get into a battle of resources, I am not sure wins out. I think probably Cig, which is a notion that would’ve been laughable 5-10yrs ago. 

[Uspshoosier]

21 minutes ago, str8baller said:

but it’s hard to make the case we’re a basketball school

Still leading the B1G in attendance the last couple years and top 6 nationally despite being a middle of the pack B1G team on the court and no tournament success shows me  IU is still a basketball  school. Either way,  call it a football school or basketball school but the outside perception will be IU is a basketball school.   During their football games, announcers go out of their way to bring up the basketball history.  For me IU will always be a basketball school first (shocker I know) 

[Pagoda]

Just my opinion, but in terms of analogies, I’d say IUBB is more like a dilapidated abandoned mansion or awesome sports car that has been left in a barn for 30 years.  There is still something unique and great here, but a lot of difficult restoration work is needed.  And probably some modern upgrades.

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

That was over a decade ago. 
 

Also, I have to say that our high point in the last 25 yrs being the one time we were ranked #1, a celebrity picked us to win the tourney, and we flamed out in the S16 is kind of sad. That would be something a school like Nebraska or Florida St would look back fondly on. Schools like UConn, Duke, UK, etc…would consider that a low-light. 
 

I don’t know what we are, but it’s hard to make the case we’re a basketball school. I kind of think we nominally are based on facilities/budget, etc… but I am not sure that’s even the case. We’re pouring a ton of money into football. If Cig and CDD get into a battle of resources, I am not sure wins out. I think probably Cig, which is a notion that would’ve been laughable 5-10yrs ago. 

Bad rear view read from imo. We won Big 10 championships under Crean, had 3 SW16’s and multiple future NBA players, the program was in good shape it just wasn’t consistently at the level where it could contend at a FF level team so the U canned Crean in favor of a terrible coach in Miller, mistake #1. 
Of course it was a decade plus ago we just suffered through 8 years of Miller and Woodson. But immediately before Sampsongate we were 24-4 and clearly dominant - why? Because we had a great coach (basketball not ethics). That’s the point. Cig and Dev won’t be battling for resources, not happening. It’s so easy to wallow in the wake of Miller/Woodson, but that era is over.
There’s every reason to believe the bball program will he dominant again with the right coach and staff. I think we just may finally have that again.