(2023) - PF Arrinten Page to USC

[DChoosier 9,490]

23 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Just look at the last 10 champions and get back to me to see where there recruiting rankings were.  I will take how Villanova built their team over how Cal does.  If Cal gets the best players every year why hasn't he won more championships.

You keep going to Cal. He has a special place in your head.

WE ARENT GOING TO RECRUIT LIKE CAL (partially because we couldn’t land all those one and dones even if we wanted to).

We are saying we need top tier talent, not 13 one and dones. 

[Uspshoosier 53,585]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The Villanova approach is great when you have a top 3 coach in college basketball. Mike Woodson is not that. As for Calipari, the tournament is a bit of a crapshoot. But he gets his team in contention. In 7/12 seasons he’s been to the elite eight. Playing for a final four spot more than half the time isn’t so bad…

Unless your fan base and you yourself expect winning more then he has with the resources and the kids he has coming in every year.    Compared to any normal program that is an amazing accomplishment but for that program and the expectations they have each and every year probably disappointing to a large group of their fan base they only have 1  ring to show for all of it.    I can still think the guy is a piece of crap and want nothing to do with the way he runs a program and still acknowledge that his way has worked out for him 

[Stuhoo 88,399]

8 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Unless your fan base and you yourself expect winning more then he has with the resources and the kids he has coming in every year.    Compared to any normal program that is an amazing accomplishment but for that program and the expectations they have each and every year probably disappointing to a large group of their fan base they only have 1  ring to show for all of it.    I can still think the guy is a piece of crap and want nothing to do with the way he runs a program and still acknowledge that his way has worked out for him 

And even NBA teams have significantly less roster turnover than UK. So if I'm going to root for a basketball team that has very little connection to a university, I'll root for the Miami Heat.

[IU Scott 2,375]

39 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The Villanova approach is great when you have a top 3 coach in college basketball. Mike Woodson is not that. As for Calipari, the tournament is a bit of a crapshoot. But he gets his team in contention. In 7/12 seasons he’s been to the elite eight. Playing for a final four spot more than half the time isn’t so bad…

Don't get me wrong you have to have really good players to win but I don't think you have to have top 10 players from a class either. If you build your roster full of players ranked 25-80 you will be fine. Also how do you know how good of a coach that Woodson will be in college since it is only his second year.

If it is just about recruiting then Duke and IK would win every year.

[Demo 22,942]

Well, this thread has certainly……evolved.

 

[DChoosier 9,490]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Don't get me wrong you have to have really good players to win but I don't think you have to have top 10 players from a class either. If you build your roster full of players ranked 25-80 you will be fine. Also how do you know how good of a coach that Woodson will be in college since it is only his second year.

If it is just about recruiting then Duke and IK would win every year.

Good recruiting is having a lot of top 25-80 players on the roster  (with maybe 1 or 2 top 20’s sprinkled in).  This year we will have 7 guys in that range with 4 of them being in the 20’s and we are favored to win the BT.

These types of discussions almost always veer into “rankings aren’t everything”,  “Vic was a 3 star” comments. . I agree 100% that rankings are not everything as some of our most important pieces (Race, X, Trey) were not top 100 guys but the odds of success (not a guarantee ) are definitely higher if you have a good proportion of ranked guys. IU, as an example, tended to be better when Crean and RMK had highly rated guys.

[DChoosier 9,490]

12 minutes ago, Demo said:

Well, this thread has certainly……evolved.

 

Is Page still going to USC :)

[Hoosierfan2017 24,550]

41 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Unless your fan base and you yourself expect winning more then he has with the resources and the kids he has coming in every year.    Compared to any normal program that is an amazing accomplishment but for that program and the expectations they have each and every year probably disappointing to a large group of their fan base they only have 1  ring to show for all of it.    I can still think the guy is a piece of crap and want nothing to do with the way he runs a program and still acknowledge that his way has worked out for him 

UK fans think anything less than a title every year is unacceptable. Since Calipari went to UK in 2009, Duke has 2 titles to Calipari’s 1, but Calipari’s been to more final four’s (4 to 3) and elite eight’s (7 to 6), and the same number of sweet sixteen’s (8).

Calipari’s done better than Kansas during the same period. 1 NC each, more final four’s (4 to 3), more elite eight’s (7 to 6, and more sweet sixteen’s (8 to 7).

Same story with UNC. 1 title each, more final four’s (4 to 3), more elite eight’s (7 to 5), and more sweet 16s (8 to 7). 

Calipari compared to Villanova is similar to him and Duke. Nova has more titles (2 to 1), but Calipari has more final four’s (4 to 3), more elite eight’s (7 to 3), and sweet sixteen’s (8 to 4). 

UK fans can be disappointed in only having one ring during that span, but their results look good when you put them up against other blue blood programs.

[Josh 13,210]

I never really post in the recruiting threads because I don't let recruiting hijack my emotions (I save that for coaches and gameday lol).  But I sure am glad it gets a lot of posters so emotional one way or the other.  This is great entertainment, thanks!

[J34 1,619]

So what we're saying is CMW can't coach or recruit?

The 22-23 season hasn't even started yet, and we are talking about recruiting failures for next season. 

The common sense approach, would be to see how this season plays out, and then see who we end up with, once the dust settles.

Put a winning product on the floor, and players will come.

[J34 1,619]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

I never really post in the recruiting threads because I don't let recruiting hijack my emotions (I save that for coaches and gameday lol).  But I sure am glad it gets a lot of posters so emotional one way or the other.  This is great entertainment, thanks!

Pure entertainment 

[Hoosierfan2017 24,550]

41 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Don't get me wrong you have to have really good players to win but I don't think you have to have top 10 players from a class either. If you build your roster full of players ranked 25-80 you will be fine. Also how do you know how good of a coach that Woodson will be in college since it is only his second year.

If it is just about recruiting then Duke and IK would win every year.

Guys ranked 25-80 are great too, but guys in the top 25 have lower bust potential. Here are the IU guys we’ve gotten in the top 25.

Eric Gordon - #1

Langford - #7

Zeller - #10

Vonleh - #11

DJ White - #15

JBJ - #20

Thomas Bryant - #20

Yogi - #21

JHS - #23

Some of those guys had more team success than others, but all were very good players at IU.

How would a team with, say, Eric Gordon, DJ White, Cody Zeller, and Yogi Ferrell do on it? Not an exact comparison, but those rankings are what a school like Duke brings in year after year. You’re going to win a lot of games with that level of talent. 

[Stuhoo 88,399]

56 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Guys ranked 25-80 are great too, but guys in the top 25 have lower bust potential. Here are the IU guys we’ve gotten in the top 25.

Eric Gordon - #1

Langford - #7

Zeller - #10

Vonleh - #11

DJ White - #15

JBJ - #20

Thomas Bryant - #20

Yogi - #21

JHS - #23

Some of those guys had more team success than others, but all were very good players at IU.

How would a team with, say, Eric Gordon, DJ White, Cody Zeller, and Yogi Ferrell do on it? Not an exact comparison, but those rankings are what a school like Duke brings in year after year. You’re going to win a lot of games with that level of talent. 

Well sure!

The problem is, of those guys that were one and done or would be in today’s environment, it’s almost impossible to stockpile enough of them to have them appear together at once. And when a largely one-and-done roster is assembled, it’s with the team that’s almost entirely freshman, thereby negating their ability to win a title.

Of all of those you listed, Yogi Ferrell was pretty much the perfect college basketball player. Talented enough to lead a team to great heights, but short enough to not leave for the NBA.

I’d be curious what the collective composite rankings were for last year‘s Kansas team and the champions that preceded it.

 

[IU Scott 2,375]

40 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Guys ranked 25-80 are great too, but guys in the top 25 have lower bust potential. Here are the IU guys we’ve gotten in the top 25.

Eric Gordon - #1

Langford - #7

Zeller - #10

Vonleh - #11

DJ White - #15

JBJ - #20

Thomas Bryant - #20

Yogi - #21

JHS - #23

Some of those guys had more team success than others, but all were very good players at IU.

How would a team with, say, Eric Gordon, DJ White, Cody Zeller, and Yogi Ferrell do on it? Not an exact comparison, but those rankings are what a school like Duke brings in year after year. You’re going to win a lot of games with that level of talent. 

I go back to 92 and 93 where we were filled with a lot of good players and compare it to the Fab 5. If you just look at the two years the Fab 5 was together they went to two national championship games but lost.  In those two years they never won the big ten where IU finished 2nd in 92 and first in 93. In 92 we got to the final 4 and in 93 got to the elite. Even though UM went farther I take our roster because they were all 4 year players.

[Hardwood83 4,986]

45 minutes ago, J34 said:

So what we're saying is CMW can't coach or recruit?

The 22-23 season hasn't even started yet, and we are talking about recruiting failures for next season. 

The common sense approach, would be to see how this season plays out, and then see who we end up with, once the dust settles.

Put a winning product on the floor, and players will come.

The maturity and logic you are providing is NOT appreciated! 

I'm hardly a sun-shine pumper, but I'm not too worried about 2023 recruiting. First, I am much more interested in IU living up to the hype for this season. Second, as has been pointed out, Woodson has done very well in the spring the last couple years. If he fails, then pile on, but wait until it's a finished product. 

[Hoosierfan2017 24,550]

55 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Well sure!

The problem is, of those guys that were one and done or would be in today’s environment, it’s almost impossible to stockpile enough of them to have them appear together at once. And when a largely one-and-done roster is assembled, it’s with the team that’s almost entirely freshman, thereby negating their ability to win a title.

Of all of those you listed, Yogi Ferrell was pretty much the perfect college basketball player. Talented enough to lead a team to great heights, but short enough to not leave for the NBA.

I’d be curious what the collective composite rankings were for last year‘s Kansas team and the champions that preceded it.

 

But you don’t always know if your one and done talent will actually be one and done. Some kids like college. Some aren’t the projected lottery picks they expected to be. I’d wager that it’ll be even more common with NIL + kids being able to go pro out of high school. Your one and dones will turn into none and dones, and the elite recruits who come to college won’t have as much financial pressure to go pro before they’re ready. 

Before, guys were choosing between coming back to play for free for a second season or going pro and making millions. Now, if you’re at that level, you could make millions in college (or at least very high six figures). It probably won’t be enough to keep a top 5 or 10 pick from going pro, but a late first rounder? Maybe. Different sport, but Jordan Addison’s reportedly making more playing for USC this year than JuJu Smith is making playing for the Chiefs. 

Not every top 10 recruit is a Cody Zeller who comes back after a great freshman season. But Cody Zellers may become more common when they’re getting $500k or more to return. Ideally I’d like our recruiting to focus on the top 60ish recruits, primarily on the top 35ish, while maybe dipping outside of the top 60 for a guy or two per class, depending on the class’s size.  A player like CJ Gunn may end up succeeding at IU, but players with his ranking (174 on 24/7 composite) would ideally be few and far between in our classes. With the transfer portal the need to take chances on players is decreased. If a low ranked player blows up, you can always try poaching them down the road.

[HoosierHoopster 8,089]

I'm in the camp that's enjoying the entertainment of this thread.

So... we just got back into the tourney in Woodson's first year, and we have 2 five-star level frosh his staff brought in together with other promising players and our already noted host of ranked returning players to go along with the somewhat overlooked high-impact players (JG, Galloway) and are projected to with the B1G, and both NIL and the whole transfer thing are in full swing. And we just had that Pro Day with what, 25 NBA teams in attendance?

So, the team has to do well this year, whether or not it wins the B1G, it has to perform / run deep in conf and move forward in the NCAA tourney (I think it will check all boxes). 

The recruiting will continue on the heels of team success, the natural pull of Pro Day and the vibe the revamped Hoosier Hysteria just provided, and we should be returning at least Bates, Ren, JG, Galloway,  Duncomb, Banks, Gunn and just maybe JHS. 

Not. Worried.

[J34 1,619]

29 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I'm in the camp that's enjoying the entertainment of this thread.

So... we just got back into the tourney in Woodson's first year, and we have 2 five-star level frosh his staff brought in together with other promising players and our already noted host of ranked returning players to go along with the somewhat overlooked high-impact players (JG, Galloway) and are projected to with the B1G, and both NIL and the whole transfer thing are in full swing. And we just had that Pro Day with what, 25 NBA teams in attendance?

So, the team has to do well this year, whether or not it wins the B1G, it has to perform / run deep in conf and move forward in the NCAA tourney (I think it will check all boxes). 

The recruiting will continue on the heels of team success, the natural pull of Pro Day and the vibe the revamped Hoosier Hysteria just provided, and we should be returning at least Bates, Ren, JG, Galloway,  Duncomb, Banks, Gunn and just maybe JHS. 

Not. Worried.

Brady Quinn endorses this message!

[BtownStrength 1,466]

3 hours ago, Demo said:

Well, this thread has certainly……evolved.

 

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 50,992]

If it weren't for the transfer portal we should panic.  Therefore, Transfer Portal could be phenomenal for us and I hope it is. 

 

We officially have missed every recruiting target we've had since summer.  5 to 8 guys.  Good news is we haven't gone Tom Crean and signed Tim Priller and Jeremiah April.  However, Crean didn't have the luxury of going transfer portal hunting otherwise I hope he would have.  Our staff has had a very Crean-like swing and miss recruiting season.  There is virtually no difference besides the transfer portal.  

 

Either way, This season should be a lot of fun.  I understand the idea of worry about next season, next season, but that's just not my style.  lol

Again, Thanks goodness for the Transfer Portal and I think the staff has learned some lessons this off-season.  2024 recruiting will answer those questions.  

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by WayneFleekHoosier