Game Thread: vs. Eastern Michigan 11/9 - 6 pm - BTN

[darB s'tI]

I don't see anything all that alarming. CMW was trying out different lineups all night. Most of our guys played well. Do we have a few guys chucking up 3s that shouldn't be? Yes. Will we use crazy rotations like this all season? No. I'll tell you all one thing I did notice: With around 2 minutes left, we had given up a 20 point lead and EMU was running. At that time, CMW coached this team to a win. CAM and CTC would have lost that game, and you all know it. CMW deserves credit, and he also totally owned that we were a "C" last night. Until we see that he's not willing to make adjustments the way our previous coaches handled things, we have little to worry about. I'm not always glass half full, but the guy deserves a bit more leash than he's being given by some.

[Uspshoosier]

5 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

It seems like someone always has a career night against IU

His was basically a 4 minute hot streak where he couldn’t do anything wrong in that timeframe.   Rest of the game before and after that stretch he was no bueno 

[IU - Kaulie]

5 hours ago, IUc2016 said:

I am with you. I want to root for the kid, but I have no idea what Galloway brings to this team that it doesn't already have. Yes he can handle the ball, but this team doesn't struggle in that area. He isn't some great defender that he is billed to be (maybe he is in the right spot but he does get beat often).

And last, this team doesn't have shooting and galloway is among the worst. Please play anthony leal, I am not saying he is going to light it up, but he can shoot and is a fine defender. Galloway imo is what he is unfortunately.

Trey brings a lot to the team.  He is a good defender that’s usually in the right spot (I disagree that he gets beat often.  Did you see Lander/Leal and their on the ball defense last year?).  I like Leal but his defense was not good last year although he does make an effort.  He’s not Zeisloft.  He is a good enough shooter but nowhere near great.  

Trey can handle the ball really well.  Everything he does on the court he does with purpose.  He moves really well with and without the ball.  He makes crisp passes.  He will be the first guy on the floor getting after it and the kind of guy you want to go to war with.  I think Archie said something last year that he is the guy you want with you in a dark alley.  He also had a nice little running floater in the game that looks easy but not a lot of kids can make that play.
 

Bottom line is Coach Woodson is going to prioritize defense 1st which I agree with 100 percent.  I believe he has also said he wants it to be 9 deep rotation maybe 10 in some cases and Trey is a part of that.  I see some people on here clamoring for certain guys to play or play more.  I think Coach knows what he is doing and sees it everyday in practice.  Trey is going to play and I’m all for it.  

[Brass Cannon]

25 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I read on Peegs where Slick Leanord use to say you don't know anything about your team till 25% of the season has been played. So let's get through the holidays first.

True. I do strongly suspect some stuff though 

[Hoosierfan2017]

30 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

Trey brings a lot to the team.  He is a good defender that’s usually in the right spot (I disagree that he gets beat often.  Did you see Lander/Leal and their on the ball defense last year?).  I like Leal but his defense was not good last year although he does make an effort.  He’s not Zeisloft.  He is a good enough shooter but nowhere near great.  

Trey can handle the ball really well.  Everything he does on the court he does with purpose.  He moves really well with and without the ball.  He makes crisp passes.  He will be the first guy on the floor getting after it and the kind of guy you want to go to war with.  I think Archie said something last year that he is the guy you want with you in a dark alley.  He also had a nice little running floater in the game that looks easy but not a lot of kids can make that play.
 

Bottom line is Coach Woodson is going to prioritize defense 1st which I agree with 100 percent.  I believe he has also said he wants it to be 9 deep rotation maybe 10 in some cases and Trey is a part of that.  I see some people on here clamoring for certain guys to play or play more.  I think Coach knows what he is doing and sees it everyday in practice.  Trey is going to play and I’m all for it.  

I don’t agree with prioritizing defense. Archie prioritized defense and look how that worked out for him. It leads to giving up only 48 points to Purdue but still losing because you can’t buy a basket. 

You need to be able to score points. If you can bomb threes you can play with anyone. My all time favorite IU game that I’ve been to was when a 17-2, #13 Maryland came into assembly hall and we were absolutely unconscious from 3. We went 15-22 from 3, with Yogi going 7-8. Beat them by 19 points. If you can’t score teams will stick around no matter how good your defense is. Between a great offense/average defense and an average offense/great defense, give me the former every time. You can’t afford to play 4 on 5 on offense, and that’s how it is when Galloway is on the court. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

The players need to not dwell on the shooting. No need to manifest destiny.  Losing confidence doesn’t help shooting. 
 

Instead, put that energy in EVERYTHING ELSE.  Defend with pride, hustle to every loose ball, crash the boards within the system. 
 

Shooters shoot, baby!  
 

The cloud concerning shooting has hung around long enough. 

[IUc2016]

47 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

Trey brings a lot to the team.  He is a good defender that’s usually in the right spot (I disagree that he gets beat often.  Did you see Lander/Leal and their on the ball defense last year?).  I like Leal but his defense was not good last year although he does make an effort.  He’s not Zeisloft.  He is a good enough shooter but nowhere near great.  

Trey can handle the ball really well.  Everything he does on the court he does with purpose.  He moves really well with and without the ball.  He makes crisp passes.  He will be the first guy on the floor getting after it and the kind of guy you want to go to war with.  I think Archie said something last year that he is the guy you want with you in a dark alley.  He also had a nice little running floater in the game that looks easy but not a lot of kids can make that play.
 

Bottom line is Coach Woodson is going to prioritize defense 1st which I agree with 100 percent.  I believe he has also said he wants it to be 9 deep rotation maybe 10 in some cases and Trey is a part of that.  I see some people on here clamoring for certain guys to play or play more.  I think Coach knows what he is doing and sees it everyday in practice.  Trey is going to play and I’m all for it.  

I never mentioned lander. But we will disagree I guess. Leal can shoot, and I specifically said he wouldn’t light it up at this point. But he has the potential to be a 40% shooter for this team down the road. 
 

galloway can continue to drive the lane get in the air and turn it over but hey he has great basketball IQ and hustle. Play him no matter what (dws) 

[IU - Kaulie]

8 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I never mentioned lander. But we will disagree I guess. Leal can shoot, and I specifically said he wouldn’t light it up at this point. But he has the potential to be a 40% shooter for this team down the road. 
 

galloway can continue to drive the lane get in the air and turn it over but hey he has great basketball IQ and hustle. Play him no matter what (dws) 

I was just pointing at that Woodson prioritizes defense which I think is the right approach.  I don’t see Leal getting a lot of minutes.  He is an average to good shooter with defensive limitations.  We obviously view Galloway differently.  I think his minutes are justified and I think he will continue to get playing time.

[RaceToTheTop]

42 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don’t agree with prioritizing defense. Archie prioritized defense and look how that worked out for him. It leads to giving up only 48 points to Purdue but still losing because you can’t buy a basket. 

You need to be able to score points. If you can bomb threes you can play with anyone. My all time favorite IU game that I’ve been to was when a 17-2, #13 Maryland came into assembly hall and we were absolutely unconscious from 3. We went 15-22 from 3, with Yogi going 7-8. Beat them by 19 points. If you can’t score teams will stick around no matter how good your defense is. Between a great offense/average defense and an average offense/great defense, give me the former every time. You can’t afford to play 4 on 5 on offense, and that’s how it is when Galloway is on the court. 

That same team lost 10 of their last 14 games and didn't play great defense.  It's not an all-or-nothing approach -- you can play both good defense and offense.  And it certainly wasn't fun watching that same put up 17 points in the first half en route to a 50 point performance against Michigan State.  Consistency is the key.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, IU-DL said:

I don't see anything all that alarming. CMW was trying out different lineups all night. Most of our guys played well. Do we have a few guys chucking up 3s that shouldn't be? Yes. Will we use crazy rotations like this all season? No. I'll tell you all one thing I did notice: With around 2 minutes left, we had given up a 20 point lead and EMU was running. At that time, CMW coached this team to a win. CAM and CTC would have lost that game, and you all know it. CMW deserves credit, and he also totally owned that we were a "C" last night. Until we see that he's not willing to make adjustments the way our previous coaches handled things, we have little to worry about. I'm not always glass half full, but the guy deserves a bit more leash than he's being given by some.

I like Race's energy but it is still going to be a little concerning that neither he nor TJD are really perimeter shooters.  Like that TJD knocked down the 18 footer, but we know that if he is taking many of those shots each game then we aren't getting him the ball in prime position.  If Race is going to shoot threes, he has to give opponents a legitimate reason to guard him there.  Right now he isn't.

[Hoosierfan2017]

32 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

That same team lost 10 of their last 14 games and didn't play great defense.  It's not an all-or-nothing approach -- you can play both good defense and offense.  And it certainly wasn't fun watching that same put up 17 points in the first half en route to a 50 point performance against Michigan State.  Consistency is the key.

That’s because it was an incredibly flawed team with zero post play. We were starting stone hands Hanner Petra at center. When he was injured/suspended, we started a Hartman/Williams front court. Despite that, we managed to make the tournament in large part because we shot 40.6% from 3 as a team, good for 6th in the NCAA. We added Thomas Bryant, and the next year we won the Big 10 and were  5th in the NCAA in 3 pt percentage at 41.5%. Certainly I’d prefer both a good offense and a good defense. But if I had to pick one I’d pick a good offense.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

That’s because it was an incredibly flawed team with zero post play. We were starting stone hands Hanner Petra at center. When he was injured/suspended, we started a Hartman/Williams front court. Despite that, we managed to make the tournament in large part because we shot 40.6% from 3 as a team, good for 6th in the NCAA. We added Thomas Bryant, and the next year we won the Big 10 and were  5th in the NCAA in 3 pt percentage at 41.5%. Certainly I’d prefer both a good offense and a good defense. 

I'd prefer to watch a great offense with an average defense than vice versa.  I'm just saying that I don't think a great offense with average defense is more likely to win than vice versa.  Great defenses are consistently great, but even great offenses have nights where the ball doesn't go in the basket.

[Hoosierfan2017]

23 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

I'd prefer to watch a great offense with an average defense than vice versa.  I'm just saying that I don't think a great offense with average defense is more likely to win than vice versa.  Great defenses are consistently great, but even great offenses have nights where the ball doesn't go in the basket.

The viewing pleasure of a good offense versus a good defense is definitely part of it for me. All the talk of Woody ‘prioritizing defense’ right now just brings me back to the days of people convincing themselves that Archie’s anemic offenses weren’t a big deal because he was focused on defense and that the offense would come around later. 

[Josh]

I have really exciting news for some of you.  Archie Miller is gone!  Woody ain't Archie.  Don't worry that he's going to turn into that incompetent turd.  Prioritizing defense is a good thing.  Bobby Knight did it too.

[HoosierInParadise]

I am super excited about only having 8 turnovers for the game and only 4 in the last 34 or 35 min. I hope that is the norm for how we prioritize taking care of the ball.

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[DWB]

9 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Noah Farrakhan ended up with 18 points on 5-21 shooting. (3-7 from 3pt.)

True. But he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn until about 6 minutes left. Had quite a few open shots in the first half and into the 2nd half. Just couldn't hit 'em. (good for us). You don't make 27 points by mistake. I don't care if it was exhibition or not.

Phin only took 11 shots. X only took 9. 

I still think the kid is an offensive player. To each his own. Guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[HoosierInParadise]

I am glad we have Dane Fife who knows a little bit about going in and out of shooting slumps...

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[IUFAN1976]

Pertaining to prioritizing defense.  CMW is doing it now because he knows if we play good D, it should give us a chance to compete and give us a chance to win!  His offense is more complex and it takes much longer for the players to catch on, in the meantime defense is the name of the game right now!

Let me ask any of you a question!  If you hold a team to 0 points, can you lose the game?  That’s why the emphasis on defense first.  The offense will come around, I will give it about 8 games and we will see a big difference with this team!

[HoosierAloha]

We’re also not going to experience a hot streak like Farrakhan put on in the 2nd half every night. He was hitting contested shot after contested shot that he wasn’t making in the first half. Also, Eastern Michigan is a very well coached team who can recruit and attract transfers 

It took one player to get a little warm to put a scare into us coming down the stretch. Our defense was above average until one player started hitting from outside, one!

What does that say?

When we were playing above average defense our offense couldn’t create enough separation to put it away. Against a good team in conference, they’ll have 2-3 players that get buckets. Our defense will have to play lights out or our offense will have to make the shots to win against good teams.


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[Hoosierfan2017]

39 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Pertaining to prioritizing defense.  CMW is doing it now because he knows if we play good D, it should give us a chance to compete and give us a chance to win!  His offense is more complex and it takes much longer for the players to catch on, in the meantime defense is the name of the game right now!

Let me ask any of you a question!  If you hold a team to 0 points, can you lose the game?  That’s why the emphasis on defense first.  The offense will come around, I will give it about 8 games and we will see a big difference with this team!

Holding a team scoreless has literally never happened during the shot clock era. This exact same thing could have been (and probably was) said during the beginning of the Archie era. A great defense is great, certainly. But you need to be able to score. If you can’t score then teams will still be in the game no matter how good your defense is. We held EMU scoreless for the first 7:15 of last night’s game. However, we could only score 10 points during that period. Two minutes later it was a two point game. 

I'm not saying that the offense won’t get it together. I really hope that it does. But last night felt a lot like what we saw over the past four years.