General Coach Candidate News

[str8baller 6,211]

What time is the Docu-signing today?
 

Hopefully this morning so I can justify some celebratory drinks at lunch! 

[12345Brad 311]

1 hour ago, Pagoda said:

I don't think that's quite how this is playing out.

- First off, I don't get the frustration with Scott.  Last year he was the only person at IU that wanted to move on from Woody.  The BoT, the key donors, and Pam didn't want to move on.  Scott was the one guy at IU on our side, he would have fit in well in the Fire Mike Woodson thread. 

- If we miss on Dusty, it's going to be blamed on Quinn and Ferguson.  There is a whole IndyStar article, among other reports, detailing how those two protected Woody last year.  That will be referenced.  And everyone knows Quinn effectively hired Woody to begin with. 

- The BoT controls approvals for big hires like a new coach.  In reality, Scott can't just do whatever he wants because he is Woody's boss.  And it sucks, but Scott also has to factor in when our biggest donor likes Woody, we need those many millions of dollars for the athletic dept and to be a bball NIL powerhouse into the future.

- Maybe there is room for criticism on how Woody is being let go.  I don't know.  While the letter is annoying, Woody still has a lot of powerful friends at IU, and Scott still managed to shitcan him midseason.  Things behind the scenes are very political and Scott will need people onside for the next hire, so maybe consider Scott has to work that bigger picture angle.  Plus of course Woody is a total @$$ to deal with which makes this separation 100x harder.

- I doubt this next bball hire makes or breaks Scott's job.  His job rides on football, which is 3x+ bigger than bball and drives basically the entire athletic dept.  If football does well, Scott probably survives a bad bball hire.  The tens of millions of extra dollars Scott is bringing in from football is what IU really notices and cares about.  If football declines, a good bball hire may not save Scott.  But let's hope it doesn't come down to this...

- The next bball hire is all Scott as far as I'm concerned.  Scott is the guy to blame good or bad.  He seems to be leading this process thanks to the political capital and influence from building up football, plus it helps Quinn and the donors were proven to be 100% wrong on Woody and clearly incompetent.  

Scott isn't perfect, but I defend him on here because big picture he has done some very good things while having to work with a lot of difficult people at IU.  And when I look around IU and the athletic dept, when it comes to making hires, he is quite literally all we've got.  Hopefully he gets this bball hire right.

And of course, it is a free country, so if anyone wants to dislike Scott, that's up to you.  This is just how I look at it.

Great input.  Also, if I’m not mistaken, firing Archie was a quid pro quo too? ‘I’ll give you the $10mm to fire Archie and you recruit Stevens.  If Brad says no, you hire Woodson’.   If that is true, I don’t know where Dolson went along and essentially hired Matta and iu had two coaches?  Did Dolson think he could get the $10mm and get Matta approved?

Either way, I agree. This sounds like Doldons hire 100% without any interference. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,999]

59 minutes ago, Asha’man said:

Iowa if they move in from Fran. 

No way they'll move on from Fran. He's one of the best coaches in their history.

[Pagoda 2,132]

40 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

Athletic Director a "middle man" for the department he is the director? I will go further, Whitten, who is his actual boss should have provided interference for Dolson. That is the job of the chief executive. The board should not be dictating the actions of a director level employee. I think we all agree on that. Good leadership does not do that. They trust who they have hired. 

Again, for the third time, I am not saying our administration is not a mess with outsized power given to those who should not have it, but Pam and Scott are not helpless lackeys either. I tend to believe if he and Pam really wanted to fight it, Woody could have been canned last season. Merely my opinion, but because the grand slam "Brad hire" was not there, they did not want to risk their careers on Dusty. That now looks like a MASSIVE mistake, and my guess is Scott regrets not forcing the issue. 

I will pose a reason you should hope that I am right. If Dolson and Whitten were completely helpless, and had 0% power in any decision making for the Woody era, we should be terrified about the next hire.

Dolson being a puppet and AD in name only four years ago would not magically stop being true because of a football hire no one cared about at the time or Woodson ineptitude. If things like the HH meeting are really true (I hope it was hyperbole in part), we should be very concerned with how this goes if Brad is a no again. In my experience, puppet directors being micromanaged by folks above their supervisor do not suddenly get full control after having none. Hence, I have to believe he was against a Woody fourth year or Woody hire, and could have risked his neck but ultimately signed off on it for it to happen in the interest of self-preservation. 

Interesting debate for sure. Cheers.

I really hope our org chart is fixed with Quinn on the way out and he and his pals also discredited.  No more meddling.  Scott makes the athletics calls, of course Pam works with Scott, but she also has to provide cover for him when trustees and donors can’t helped themselves and start yapping.  She has to tell them to F off.  Hopefully the next BoT Chair understands how this should work and contributes to everything running like a proper organization.

We really want to Scott in charge of the whole athletic dept.  That way if results are good or bad, it’s clear who is responsible and we can change out Scott if he doesn’t meet the goals he agrees to with Pam and the Board.  Management 101.

We had serious upper level meddling with the AD’s job in 2001, 2006, 2021, and 2024.  It has killed our bball program, the meddlers are either clueless on how to hire/fire coaches or they’re outrageously conflicted.

[Pagoda 2,132]

9 minutes ago, 12345Brad said:

Great input.  Also, if I’m not mistaken, firing Archie was a quid pro quo too? ‘I’ll give you the $10mm to fire Archie and you recruit Stevens.  If Brad says no, you hire Woodson’.   If that is true, I don’t know where Dolson went along and essentially hired Matta and iu had two coaches?  Did Dolson think he could get the $10mm and get Matta approved?

Either way, I agree. This sounds like Doldons hire 100% without any interference. 

I’m not sure on the specifics.  I only know Quinn was pushing for Mike as far back as 2017.  Exactly what was agreed to I don’t know.

[MrBBall 405]

7 hours ago, Hoosierfanyuh said:

Enough i have notifications for their posts

That person is very reliable. 

[Motley's 193]

28 minutes ago, str8baller said:

What time is the Docu-signing today?
 

Hopefully this morning so I can justify some celebratory drinks at lunch! 

Unfortunately, the contract was on this truck. Today’s a holiday and the printers in the IU athletic department are out of toner. It will now be next week.3

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 12:17 PM by Motley's

[Motley's 193]

15 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

No way they'll move on from Fran. He's one of the best coaches in their history.

I think he may retire 

[OKHOOSIER 4,453]

1 minute ago, Pagoda said:

I really hope our org chart is fixed with Quinn on the way out and he and his pals also discredited.  No more meddling.  Scott makes the athletics calls, of course Pam works with Scott, but she also has to provide cover for him when trustees and donors can’t helped themselves and start yapping.  She has to tell them to F off.  Hopefully the next BoT Chair understands how this should work and contributes to everything running like a proper organization.

We really want to Scott in charge of the whole athletic dept.  That way if results are good or bad, it’s clear who is responsible and we can change out Scott if he doesn’t meet the goals he agrees to with Pam and the Board.  Management 101.

We had serious upper level meddling with the AD’s job in 2001, 2006, 2021, and 2024.  It has killed our bball program, the meddlers are clueless on how to run a bball program.

All great points, and I think it lends itself to those here who are really concerned about the administration screwing this hire up too. I hope and believe it will be different this time, but the more I have chewed on this whole Woody era (retirement nonsense included) the more I have a hard time giving zero blame to Scott and Pam.

People do not relinquish that power or stop meddling because it didn't work before-- as you stated. It has happened over and over. If Scott was has been completely neutered when it comes to Men's Bball, it is hard for me to believe that does a complete 180.

If it is true he is and has been powerless, and Scott cannot land Brad or Dusty, it doesn't seem like much of stretch to see the "adults" pushing him aside again to make the hire. "You tried for your guys, now we are in charge." Absolute nightmare scenario lol**

**Disclaimer, I do not think this happens, but not too difficult to squint and see it happening given our history. 

[Hoosier Guy 7,841]

1 hour ago, Asha’man said:

Iowa if they move in from Fran. 

I could definitely see that.

[Golfman25 6,163]

5 hours ago, HoosierDYT said:

It’s all probably meaningless but the one thing I don’t logically understand is forcing Woodson to retire when we still may have had a chance at making the tournament. I really don’t think you do that unless you have your guy lined up, and if your guy is locked up he probably isn’t coaching at the moment. I’m sure there are trivial reasons, such as not fans not booing, but still doesn’t make much sense to me. And then obviously our insiders shared what they were hearing which made us all feel optimistic, but for me it was their comments coupled with the logic of the overall timing that made the possibility of Stevens plausible, and it’s why I haven’t fully given up even if that makes me crazy.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you believe Cathy, Woodson asked for assurances about year 5 which forced Dolson’s hand.  Otherwise everything was supposed to take place at the end of the season.  

[Pagoda 2,132]

1 hour ago, OKHOOSIER said:

All great points, and I think it lends itself to those here who are really concerned about the administration screwing this hire up too. I hope and believe it will be different this time, but the more I have chewed on this whole Woody era (retirement nonsense included) the more I have a hard time giving zero blame to Scott and Pam.

People do not relinquish that power or stop meddling because it didn't work before-- as you stated. It has happened over and over. If Scott was has been completely neutered when it comes to Men's Bball, it is hard for me to believe that does a complete 180.

If it is true he is and has been powerless, and Scott cannot land Brad or Dusty, it doesn't seem like much of stretch to see the "adults" pushing him aside again to make the hire. "You tried for your guys, now we are in charge." Absolute nightmare scenario lol**

**Disclaimer, I do not think this happens, but not too difficult to squint and see it happening given our history. 

I get what you’re saying.  You may be right and it’s fair to have concerns the meddling won’t stop.  I can’t look at the last 25 years and be super confident lol.  The Woody firing was a bit alarming for sure.

Scott and Pam need to step up, hopefully with some self aware trustees/donors.  So far it sounds like Scott is in charge, but it’s possible the meddlers may try to step in again (cringe).  If that happens we are in deep sh1t.

Of course there is also risk Scott hires the wrong person on his own.  Perilous times!

[MrBBall 405]

1 minute ago, Pagoda said:

I get what you’re saying.  You may be right and it’s fair to have concerns the meddling won’t stop.  I can’t look at the last 25 years and be super confident lol.  The Woody firing was a bit alarming for sure.

Scott and Pam need to step up, hopefully with some self aware trustees/donors.  So far it sounds like Scott is in charge, but it’s possible the meddlers may try to step in again (cringe).  If that happens we are in deep sh1t.

Scott is in control. President is supportive. He runs the show. No interference and that’s a fact. He knows what he is doing and is a very good AD. Personally I have full confidence in him. 

[Pagoda 2,132]

1 minute ago, MrBBall said:

Scott is in control. President is supportive. He runs the show. No interference and that’s a fact. He knows what he is doing and is a very good AD. Personally I have full confidence in him. 

I love to hear that as much as possible.  I have confidence in him too.

[MrBBall 405]

Just now, Pagoda said:

Love it.  I have confidence in him too.

By the way that may be the best profile picture anyone could have. Fond memories. 

[Golfman25 6,163]

Not to sound like Cathy but some of you don’t understand how organizations work.  Scott isn’t the king.  The overall direction of the athletic department is provide by Pam and the Board.  He has to work within those parameters.   They can dictate criteria to Scott like no dudes with off court issues (Fitzgerald, Beard, etc.).  If Quinn wants Woodson, guess what, it’s Woodson.  It’s an abuse of power by Quinn, but Scott’s only choice is to comply or resign.  Basically, Scott makes recommendations, the Board makes decisions.   When you have meddlers at the Board and President level, you get what we have got the past 20+ years.  

[ib4iu 441]

10 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

If you believe Cathy, Woodson asked for assurances about year 5 which forced Dolson’s hand.  Otherwise everything was supposed to take place at the end of the season.  

If that’s true, holy cow. The ego that man has. Totally self absorbed. 

[Chris007 51,965]

9 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I replied, see my message to you! I accepted your bet!  

Sorry I fell asleep. It's a deal we will figure out something. We can always just do bragging rights or your favorite drink

[Chris007 51,965]

9 hours ago, Ryno6284 said:

You are firm on that again this time? Let's Go!

I'm not firm on anything other than those are my two favorite candidates. I'm privy to a little info and the money were throwing around we'll get one of the two

[Chris007 51,965]

9 hours ago, IUHoosierJoe said:

If I took both and gave you the field, who would win?

Me, but IUFAN is also possible. Honestly don't know for sure. We'll see