IUBB @ Illinois - 12/26/20 @ 4:00 ET on FS1-TV

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Treesh said:

It’s the business of coaching. At the end of the day, the players decide how long the coach will be at a school. Our players are given every opportunity to win here at Indiana. I wouldn’t say it’s an excuse when players are missing point blank layups and your all American acts like he doesn’t want to be there. It’s basketball. 

He chose the players. It’s all on him 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

It’s the business of coaching. At the end of the day, the players decide how long the coach will be at a school. Our players are given every opportunity to win here at Indiana. I wouldn’t say it’s an excuse when players are missing point blank layups and your all American acts like he doesn’t want to be there. It’s basketball. 

Couldn’t disagree with you more.

Let’s continue to blame the players year after year when there is a clear common denominator within the problem. Makes sense to me.


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[Trish]

7 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

We have youth but we have a senior guard who has a ton of experience and is a captain. A junior guard also with a ton of expertise. Race does not have the game experience but has been with the program for such a long time. Hunter has been around a ton as well and even though he could not play a lot he brings experience with the program and should be more reliable. 
 

Even our primary youth are sophomores and played a lot last year. 
 

I don’t think we can use youth as an excuse 

Experience on paper is different than actual experience. This will be Race second year playing. Rob has been completely out of what anyone could’ve predicted. Al is Al, he’s inconsistent like most of Crean’s players. 
 

Then you bring all freshman of of the bench.. that’s pretty young to me. Rob and Al are the only ones with true experience. 

[Alford Bailey]

Today was a great example of why TJD HAS to develop that jumper. 

[RaceToTheTop]

2 minutes ago, Treesh said:

It’s the business of coaching. At the end of the day, the players decide how long the coach will be at a school. Our players are given every opportunity to win here at Indiana. I wouldn’t say it’s an excuse when players are missing point blank layups and your all American acts like he doesn’t want to be there. It’s basketball. 

In TJD's defense, I wouldn't say he's been disinterested.  And truth be told, he hasn't had many bad games.  He started very poorly today but it wasn't lack of aggresiveness -- he was 0 of 5 pretty quickly.

[Trish]

3 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Couldn’t disagree with you more.

Let’s continue to blame the players year after year when there is a clear common denominator within the problem. Makes sense to me.


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Being involved in collegiate basketball coaching myself, I'd say the players are the main reason we see coaching changes. Why do you think coaches cheat at this level? We want the "best" players correct? Now of course it doesn't always work out that way (UK who is 1-6) but having great players will keep the fan base at ease and save our ***** more times than often.

We can fire Archie and bring in five star recruits or whatever, but if they don't finish the plays like our current players aren't, then that blame needs to be considered on the players. Too many times that coaches get blamed and it's a casual basketball fans excuse most of the time. Of course coaches cost themselves the job (Tom Crean) but from talking to people in the B1G coaching a lot of these fellow coaches would agree that Archie is doing a great job.

Tell the boys to make a layup. 

[Alford Bailey]

A game we coulda used Brunk. We had no answer for Cockburn when TJD went out.

[kreigh8]

14 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Rob Phinissee is now fourth on the team in assists.

The ball just doesn’t move when he has it. He dribbles a lot and really without much purpose. At one point Illinois sagged off of him in the first half as they knew he wasn’t a threat to shoot so they clogged the lane and were able to pick Franklin once from it. So disappointing as I was hoping a healthy Rob would finally take a leap forward

Edit: He did play much better and more aggressive in the second half which this team needs more of, as the PG position is a glaring weak spot

[Trish]

Just now, Alford Bailey said:

A game we coulda used Brunk. We had no answer for Cockburn when TJD went out.

I agree. TJD got caught several times jogging back after the hard-hedge and UI made us pay with a simple over the top entry pass. Brunk has the experience and basketball IQ to at the very least spring back after the hedge. 

 

[JSHoosier]

33 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

For the game? Maybe, maybe not.

For this season? Previous seasons? 2021 recruiting.  
 

The coach at Indiana is paid and expected to produce a top 25 team in the country.  At some point the excuses have to stop.  It’s a bottom line business and Archie isn’t holding up his end of the bargain.  
 

If players aren’t playing well, it’s your job as a coach to have reserves that can do what it takes to win basketball games. I’m sick and tired of hearing all the excuses every single year. 

Exactly.  It's not one game, it's one games that's part of a larger trend.  It's yet another season where the team can't shoot, a constant problem that Miller has failed miserably to correct.

[Hoosierfan2017]

11 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Being involved in collegiate basketball coaching myself, I'd say the players are the main reason we see coaching changes. Why do you think coaches cheat at this level? We want the "best" players correct? Now of course it doesn't always work out that way (UK who is 1-6) but having great players will keep the fan base at ease and save our ***** more times than often.

We can fire Archie and bring in five star recruits or whatever, but if they don't finish the plays like our current players aren't, then that blame needs to be considered on the players. Too many times that coaches get blamed and it's a casual basketball fans excuse most of the time. Of course coaches cost themselves the job (Tom Crean) but from talking to people in the B1G coaching a lot of these fellow coaches would agree that Archie is doing a great job.

Tell the boys to make a layup. 

Of course other Big Ten coaches are going to say Archie is doing a great job. They know we’ll be a W on their schedule as long as he’s here. They don’t want him to go anywhere.

Coaches get the blame because they’re the ones getting paid millions of dollars to get results. Archie recruits the players. He develops the players. He controls practice. He develops the system. He makes the substitutions and the adjustments. Yet the players should get the blame?

Archie’s IU team this year is having the same problems year 1, 2, and 3’s teams had. We still have no shooters. We still have a putrid offense. We still don’t play hard for 49 minutes a night. When the players cycle in and out and the same problems persist, that’s on coaching. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Being involved in collegiate basketball coaching myself, I'd say the players are the main reason we see coaching changes. Why do you think coaches cheat at this level? We want the "best" players correct? Now of course it doesn't always work out that way (UK who is 1-6) but having great players will keep the fan base at ease and save our ***** more times than often.
We can fire Archie and bring in five star recruits or whatever, but if they don't finish the plays like our current players aren't, then that blame needs to be considered on the players. Too many times that coaches get blamed and it's a casual basketball fans excuse most of the time. Of course coaches cost themselves the job (Tom Crean) but from talking to people in the B1G coaching a lot of these fellow coaches would agree that Archie is doing a great job.
Tell the boys to make a layup. 

I can agree that players win games. Talent wins generally. But this is college. You have nearly full control over the talent you get and how you use it. Stop blaming the players. Blame Archie for not getting a guy like Cockburn or Dosunmu. If you don’t like your own players there is exactly one person to blame.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Didn't get to watch the game. But I see Dosunmu scored half what we did. Did Phinisee not start? Lander should be starting over Durham next. 

[Trish]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Of course other Big Ten coaches are going to say Archie is doing a great job. They know we’ll be a W on their schedule as long as he’s here. They don’t want him to go anywhere.

Coaches get the blame because they’re the ones getting paid millions of dollars to get results. Archie recruits the players. He develops the players. He controls practice. He develops the system. He makes the substitutions and the adjustments. Yet the players should get the blame?

Archie’s IU team this year is having the same problems year 1, 2, and 3’s teams had. We still have no shooters. We still have a putrid offense. We still don’t play hard for 49 minutes a night. When the players cycle in and out and the same problems persist, that’s on coaching. 

Well.. the players are the ones shooting the basketball and attempting 2 foot lay-ups. The players are indeed the ones who control their effort on rebounds, sprinting back after hard-hedging, knowing the sets (HUNTER/LEAL confusion today). If Archie has mind control of all these boys then that's quite impressive. 

Archie without a doubt deserves some blame but at the end of the day it's the athletes that are on the court finishing simple basketball moves and shots. 

Franklin improved his jumper and driving ability, why didn't Rob or Al? This isn't all on Archie folks. 

[Josh]

25 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Experience on paper is different than actual experience. This will be Race second year playing. Rob has been completely out of what anyone could’ve predicted. Al is Al, he’s inconsistent like most of Crean’s players. 
 

Then you bring all freshman of of the bench.. that’s pretty young to me. Rob and Al are the only ones with true experience. 

Experienced players getting most of the minutes while bringing the freshmen off the bench is not young.  Sorry, but that excuse has to go

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

2 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Well.. the players are the ones shooting the basketball and attempting 2 foot lay-ups. The players are indeed the ones who control their effort on rebounds, sprinting back after hard-hedging, knowing the sets (HUNTER/LEAL confusion today). If Archie has mind control of all these boys then that's quite impressive. 

Archie without a doubt deserves some blame but at the end of the day it's the athletes that are on the court finishing simple basketball moves and shots. 

Franklin improved his jumper and driving ability, why didn't Rob or Al? This isn't all on Archie folks. 

The players are also the ones consistently put in a place to fail thanks to a terrible system. 

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Well.. the players are the ones shooting the basketball and attempting 2 foot lay-ups. The players are indeed the ones who control their effort on rebounds, sprinting back after hard-hedging, knowing the sets (HUNTER/LEAL confusion today). If Archie has mind control of all these boys then that's quite impressive. 

Archie without a doubt deserves some blame but at the end of the day it's the athletes that are on the court finishing simple basketball moves and shots. 

Franklin improved his jumper and driving ability, why didn't Rob or Al? This isn't all on Archie folks. 

Well then why does every Archie recruit struggle with this?

[Trish]

Just now, Josh said:

Experienced players getting most of the minutes while bringing the freshmen off the bench is not young.  Sorry, but that excuse has to go

Trey (F) - 32 minutes

Arman (So) - 32 Minutes

Race (JR-2nd Year) - 29 minutes

TJD (So) - 31 minutes

Al (Senior) - 28 minutes

So you have 1 senior at 28 minutes and the rest sophomores and freshman getting the rest. I'm sorry dude but that's young lmao

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Just now, Treesh said:

Trey (F) - 32 minutes

Arman (So) - 32 Minutes

Race (JR-2nd Year) - 29 minutes

TJD (So) - 31 minutes

Al (Senior) - 28 minutes

So you have 1 senior at 28 minutes and the rest sophomores and freshman getting the rest. I'm sorry dude but that's young lmao

As a Sophomore, you're a vet in today's game. You get one year of "freshmen mistakes." Problem is that we have Senior guards making high school freshman mistakes. 

[Josh]

1 minute ago, Treesh said:

Trey (F) - 32 minutes

Arman (So) - 32 Minutes

Race (JR-2nd Year) - 29 minutes

TJD (So) - 31 minutes

Al (Senior) - 28 minutes

So you have 1 senior at 28 minutes and the rest sophomores and freshman getting the rest. I'm sorry dude but that's young lmao

Young and experienced are two different things.

TJD has started for two years.  Al is a senior.  Race is in his 3rd year in Archie's system.

This team is experienced.