Negativity Thread

[IUc2016]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

After the fact.

Plant the seed of blame and let it grow. Everyone wants to believe it’s a bad seed or 2. Planting that seed allows people to think things get better when that seed is gone. Blame naturally goes there.

Losing Romeo was going to make things better this year, remember?

Then Green.

Now Smith.

I’ve never liked Smith as a player. I’ve been very hard on him.

To me, this is still one hundred percent on th coach.

Who knows, maybe Smith has good reason to be difficult.

Who knows, next year we find out, and therein lies the hope people can have like I mentioned in the first post.


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This is what everyone else here is doing. But apparently it is okay for you to do so. 

If Archie fails, it will 100% be on Archie like everyone has said. Doesn't mean there won't be reasons for that failure, including players who didn't buy in and weren't dealt with. 

[BlueDevil]

I do agree with what Jerrod Odle said that they had a cancer on the 2001 team and when he left it was much better. I think this year is better without, Romeo but I think it could be better for sure.
I'm the biggest Archie supporter on here and I think this is his fault for not pushing people out or just not playing them, let alone starting them every game. 

That’s what I don’t get as well. I was big on the Archie hire but just don’t understand what he’s doing right now. I want to see this team sans any Crean leftovers or see some guys on the pine. Everyone knew this season was going to be a challenge beforehand. If these same guys are back next year I believe we will still be talking about the same story this time next year.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

This is what everyone else here is doing. But apparently it is okay for you to do so. 

If Archie fails, it will 100% be on Archie like everyone has said. Doesn't mean there won't be reasons for that failure, including players who didn't buy in and weren't dealt with. 

Critiquing a players play on the court isn't the same blaming him for chemistry problems and losses.  

The second part is true.  Recruit better, coach better, and deal with Smith if he is the problem.  

Again, these are CAM problems in the end and I don't want to lose sight on that.

 

If Archie turns this around this year or next, I'll be his biggest cheerleader.  Because in my opinion that is the beauty of college sports, the coach has SO much control.  You pick your players.  You pick your style.  You play who deserves it.  You kick players that don't fit.  It's got to be an incredibly stressful position when you are losing because internally you know it all falls back on you.  In pro sports (NBA), you have salary caps and drafts.  GMS.  You have to deal with who you have and maybe they listen to you and maybe they don't.  College coaches have full control on their programs.  That is the beauty of it and why the right guy can win quickly.  

 

[Brass Cannon]

34 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Anyone who’s ever managed people has dealt with interpersonal challenges. Letting the problem fester (for years!) is the leader’s problem. He has plenty of power short of dismissal and at least the public-facing options like benching haven’t happened.

He’s in charge, they’re his responsibility. If he can’t see that it’ll never work for him.

(btw this is a good argument against letting captains be selected by their peers.)

I have managed teams for years and agree whole heartedly. I inherited a team of 19 that was dysfunctional but capable.  There were a handful of people brining the team down thru various behaviors.  
 

My third day somebody who I knew was a problem before I took over committed a fireable offense I dealt with it. 
 

Somebody else was causing issues by not following process.  I talked with him coaches him. It took longer than I would have liked but he’s now helping the team. 
 

Recently somebody was abandoning the team everyday that the work was difficult and then abusing the company bereavement policy.  They were killing morale. I fought with HR to get them to stop bending the policy for them. They are gone. 
 

Team is down 6 people from when I took over. They are happier and just as if not more effective. 
 

It took me making changes and taking actions to accomplish that.  

[Bowhunter]

I’m guessing here, but maybe Archie thinks that keeping the talent of the 3 trouble makers this season gives us a a better chance to make the tournament and less chance of him losing his job .

 

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Yes none of the players deserve any of the blame for giving up 90 points to Wisconsin and Michigan. Especially those who haven't bought in. DWS
Besides the fact that last years defense was top 30 and Justin Smith was already allegedly causing these problems. 

As a player it’s incredibly frustrating and hard to buy into a system that clearly doesn’t work. Been there and done that multiple times throughout school. Both sides are to blame for it.


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[mdn82]

As a player it’s incredibly frustrating and hard to buy into a system that clearly doesn’t work. Been there and done that multiple times throughout school. Both sides are to blame for it.


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You mean to tell me you went into a situation where you felt you knew more than the coach? I am shocked it didn’t work.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

You mean to tell me you went into a situation where you felt you knew more than the coach? I am shocked it didn’t work.


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Went into it thinking that? No. Walked out it knowing that? Yes. We were an odd group of kids that were all best friends. For whatever reason during school ball, we’d go 4-12 or something and it seemed like we sucked while being robots to terrible offenses and guys who couldn’t coach us. But in AAU we’d go 15-5 looking like a well oiled machine. The only times we looked bad is when we would get screwed up at the sports plex in Bloomington because they’d always throw us into the 4A tourneys and moving one of their Bloomington teams into the 2A tourneys. Which we quit going there because of it being rigged like no other. But certain systems just don’t work for kids and that’s frustrating and it can snowball. I don’t think these players are that dumb and probably see what fans say and feel the system Archie runs doesn’t work, and it doesn’t. Archie’s offensive system is god awful.


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[lillurk]

46 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

I’m guessing here, but maybe Archie thinks that keeping the talent of the 3 trouble makers this season gives us a a better chance to make the tournament and less chance of him losing his job .

 

 

 

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If he thinks this he’s correct (certainly once the season has begun and they couldn’t be easily replaced on this year’s roster). He has tools to lead with that he clearly isn’t using, and unlike last year, there are healthy alternatives you can reasonably expect to produce.

[HoosierFan1994]

3 hours ago, Chris007 said:

Coach Schilling told me last season that there was one player who disrupted practice, was not a locker room guy, not a team guy last season. I really thought we would make him transfer this season. I spoke to someone tonight, who said the exact same things about the same player this season. Talking about how they are always the problem at practice. If this player is on the team next season Archie will be looking for another job for sure. 

Thanks Chris. So is it to the point where it's either Al/Justin go or Archie goes? 

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

Thanks Chris. So is it to the point where it's either Al/Justin go or Archie goes? 

I don't know that much. I was just passing along what I was told. I think most people thought DG was a locker room problem or practice and that's not what I was told. This is just someone who watches practice and when I asked what the problem was, he told me his thoughts. 

[HoosierFan1994]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

I don't know that much. I was just passing along what I was told. I think most people thought DG was a locker room problem or practice and that's not what I was told. This is just someone who watches practice and when I asked what the problem was, he told me his thoughts. 

Archie deserves blame in this but the administration has been awful for over 20 years. Glass needs to leave now. 

[southernindianahoosier2]

15 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

You mean to tell me you went into a situation where you felt you knew more than the coach? I am shocked it didn’t work.


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Could be lack of ability to communicate with their coach. If they don't have an outlet to have an open discussion, or if Archie doesn't press some of the more sensitive players to open up, players could get passive and shut down. 

 

Could also be a classic case of self sabotage by the player(s) in order to punish their coach. Just like the kid in school who gets F's to punish their teachers and parent.  

[mdn82]

Could be lack of ability to communicate with their coach. If they don't have an outlet to have an open discussion, or if Archie doesn't press some of the more sensitive players to open up, players could get passive and shut down. 
 
Could also be a classic case of self sabotage by the player(s) in order to punish their coach. Just like the kid in school who gets F's to punish their teachers and parent.  

Then we have no leaders on this team if that were the case. Players police that. Right now it’s a collective **** show. There is enough blame to go around. Everyone has to take a collective step forward. For all of Crean’s faults he wasn’t afraid to kick a kid off of a team if there was an issue. He was made fun of for this. That’s exactly what we need right now is for a coach to walk in and take control of the situation. Then he needs to put players in the role of captains that are an extension of him.


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[Alford Bailey]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I have managed teams for years and agree whole heartedly. I inherited a team of 19 that was dysfunctional but capable.  There were a handful of people brining the team down thru various behaviors.  
 

My third day somebody who I knew was a problem before I took over committed a fireable offense I dealt with it. 
 

Somebody else was causing issues by not following process.  I talked with him coaches him. It took longer than I would have liked but he’s now helping the team. 
 

Recently somebody was abandoning the team everyday that the work was difficult and then abusing the company bereavement policy.  They were killing morale. I fought with HR to get them to stop bending the policy for them. They are gone. 
 

Team is down 6 people from when I took over. They are happier and just as if not more effective. 
 

It took me making changes and taking actions to accomplish that.  

That is what a leader does.

[Chris007]

18 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Then we have no leaders on this team if that were the case. Players police that. Right now it’s a collective **** show. There is enough blame to go around. Everyone has to take a collective step forward. For all of Crean’s faults he wasn’t afraid to kick a kid off of a team if there was an issue. He was made fun of for this. That’s exactly what we need right now is for a coach to walk in and take control of the situation. Then he needs to put players in the role of captains that are an extension of him.


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I think that is the problem. Crean did it so often the current administration doesn't want the basketball staff to do it anymore. Now, why were still playing these guys is the real problem. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I think that is the problem. Crean did it so often the current administration doesn't want the basketball staff to do it anymore. Now, why were still playing these guys is the real problem. 

Agree with this. He must think they are still his best chance to win. Sad when you think about it. That comes back to recruiting.


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[Alford Bailey]

3 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think that is the problem. Crean did it so often the current administration doesn't want the basketball staff to do it anymore. Now, why were still playing these guys is the real problem. 

Thanks for sharing. You are a real asset to the group.

[bigrod]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think that is the problem. Crean did it so often the current administration doesn't want the basketball staff to do it anymore. Now, why were still playing these guys is the real problem. 

But like you said, you don't have to play them. If you really want a player to leave, but the admin says no, you don't play him and he will most likely decide to leave on his own.

[Chris007]

Just now, bigrod said:

But like you said, you don't have to play them. If you really want a player to leave, but the admin says no, you don't play him and he will most likely decide to leave on his own.

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