Negativity Thread

[IUc2016 7,121]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Are we really going to pin this disaster on a couple of players that play the bulk of the minutes.

This is ridiculous. Yes, these players aren’t very good. Yes, Smith drives me nuts with everything he does.

We have 11 or 10 other roster spots to deal with. I don’t care if he is a cancer or not. He probably wants to win and doesn’t like what Archie is doing.

What else can Archie do but blame the players? And how convenient is it he can blame a few he didn’t recruit.

This doesn’t build or inspire my hope one bit.


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Didn't realize that was what this board was supposed to do. Forgive us, sir.

good grief 

[southernindianahoosier2 926]

16 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

From what I understand #1 is a major problem, #2 is a minor problem. I said what about Green? I was told he might be off the court but he works his behind off in practice, he's just very inconsistent. 

So Out of D Green, D Davis, A Durham, and Justin Smith, I would have guessed the first two were the problems. We have two open Schollys plus all four of these could not return. so 6 spots in theory. What is the program doing? 

How much of this is that they don't like the system and Archie? or what's been the issue for two years that the coach hasn't been able to solve.  I'd be upset too if I had to play in a pack line defense that gives up almost 90 pts to Wisconsin and Michigan. 

[Stuhoo 82,706]

6 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Are we really going to pin this disaster on a couple of players that play the bulk of the minutes.

This is ridiculous. Yes, these players aren’t very good. Yes, Smith drives me nuts with everything he does.

We have 11 or 10 other roster spots to deal with. I don’t care if he is a cancer or not. He probably wants to win and doesn’t like what Archie is doing.

What else can Archie do but blame the players? And how convenient is it he can blame a few he didn’t recruit.

This doesn’t build or inspire my hope one bit.


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When potential information comes out and posters discuss the ramifications of that information? I don't consider that "pinning."

 

[Brass Cannon 25,000]

2 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

So Out of D Green, D Davis, A Durham, and Justin Smith, I would have guessed the first two were the problems. We have two open Schollys plus all four of these could not return. so 6 spots in theory. What is the program doing? 

How much of this is that they don't like the system and Archie? or what's been the issue for two years that the coach hasn't been able to solve.  I'd be upset too if I had to play in a pack line defense that gives up almost 90 pts to Wisconsin and Michigan. 

We have one open scholarship if all 4 leave after this year we have 10 players for next year. 

[IUc2016 7,121]

3 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

So Out of D Green, D Davis, A Durham, and Justin Smith, I would have guessed the first two were the problems. We have two open Schollys plus all four of these could not return. so 6 spots in theory. What is the program doing? 

How much of this is that they don't like the system and Archie? or what's been the issue for two years that the coach hasn't been able to solve.  I'd be upset too if I had to play in a pack line defense that gives up almost 90 pts to Wisconsin and Michigan. 

Yes none of the players deserve any of the blame for giving up 90 points to Wisconsin and Michigan. Especially those who haven't bought in. DWS

Besides the fact that last years defense was top 30 and Justin Smith was already allegedly causing these problems. 

[southernindianahoosier2 926]

1 minute ago, IUc2016 said:

Yes none of the players deserve any of the blame for giving up 90 points to Wisconsin and Michigan. Especially those who haven't bought in. DWS

Besides the fact that last years defense was top 30 and Justin Smith was already allegedly causing these problems. 

I'm just saying that I'd be upset if I had to play in a defense that wasn't working. It must be frustrating. Not removing the blame from those who play in the system. But the system doesn't seem to be working, seems that players aren't buying in.

 

Not sure what examples can be provided on what problems JS would be causing.  

[Hoosierfan2017 22,207]

If players are that big of problems then Archie needs to get rid of them. Playing the problem children heavy minutes every game isn't going to get players to buy in. I don't buy the "handcuffed by the university" in that regard. With recruiting I do, but on this I don't. Take control of your team and get rid of the cancers. You're going to lose your job regardless if you keep putting out a crap product. Clean house and dare them to fire you. Archie is going to lose his job regardless if this continues. 

[Bobman1 2,909]

From what I understand #1 is a major problem, #2 is a minor problem. I said what about Green? I was told he might be off the court but he works his behind off in practice, he's just very inconsistent. 

Going off of this, I know for a fact Smith didn’t start a game or two during high school due to a locker room incident. I also realize Smith’s not the reason for this team’s troubles but I don’t think he’s helping out very much. Just thought I’d pass along


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[WayneFleekHoosier 49,052]

 
When potential information comes out and posters discuss the ramifications of that information? I don't consider that "pinning."
 

What do you consider it? It’s passing the blame from Archie to the players without Archie doing it directly.

You know how it works. Look at Green for example. The fanbase wants to blame him for all our failures. Now it will be Smith, and to a lesser extent, Durham. That’s not fair imo. Conveniently, these aren’t his guys, per se.

It’s only purpose is to take the heat off of Archie and staff and “pin” it elsewhere.

Coach has had a multitude of ways and chances to handle all of this. He hasn’t clearly, and plays these two guys as much as anyone else.

It’s a deflection tactic.




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[lillurk 3,858]

Anyone who’s ever managed people has dealt with interpersonal challenges. Letting the problem fester (for years!) is the leader’s problem. He has plenty of power short of dismissal and at least the public-facing options like benching haven’t happened.

He’s in charge, they’re his responsibility. If he can’t see that it’ll never work for him.

(btw this is a good argument against letting captains be selected by their peers.)

[Chris007 47,528]

1 minute ago, lillurk said:

Anyone who’s ever managed people has dealt with interpersonal challenges. Letting the problem fester (for years!) is the leader’s problem. He has plenty of power short of dismissal and at least the public-facing options like benching haven’t happened.

He’s in charge, they’re his responsibility. If he can’t see that it’ll never work for him.

(btw this is a good argument against letting captains be selected by their peers.)

This is what I'm saying. If you can dismiss them which I totally believe he can't, at least bench them. I have trouble defending him when he is not using every option possible. 

[Stuhoo 82,706]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

What do you consider it? It’s passing the blame from Archie to the players without Archie doing it directly.

You know how it works. Look at Green for example. The fanbase wants to blame him for all our failures. Now it will be Smith, and to a lesser extent, Durham. That’s not fair imo. Conveniently, these aren’t his guys, per se.

It’s only purpose is to take the heat off of Archie and staff and “pin” it elsewhere.

Coach has had a multitude of ways and chances to handle all of this. He hasn’t clearly, and plays these two guys as much as anyone else.

It’s a deflection tactic.




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It's not an absolute.

There can be shared blame and responsibilities for failures and successes. If there is a point made about a particular player's short-comings, that doesn't mean that the entirety of problems rests with or is pinned on that player, but it usually prompts a discussion about the player who has just been mentioned.

Anyway ... semantics. Feels like we're disagreeing about 'not all that much.' 

[BlueDevil 8,897]

At the end of the day it’s Archie’s own @$$ on the line whether there is pressure from the university. You gotta do what’s best for you. Get fired for anything other than losing and your always guaranteed another job. The problems may be deeper than a couple cancers. I know they were super talented but in 2015 Duke cut ties with Sulaimon mid season and you know the rest.


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[lillurk 3,858]

Just now, Chris007 said:

This is what I'm saying. If you can dismiss them which I totally believe he can't, at least bench them. I have trouble defending him when he is not using every option possible. 

Not to mention that at least what’s described herein is immature but not worthy of dismissal.

[Stuhoo 82,706]

3 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Anyone who’s ever managed people has dealt with interpersonal challenges. Letting the problem fester (for years!) is the leader’s problem. He has plenty of power short of dismissal and at least the public-facing options like benching haven’t happened.

He’s in charge, they’re his responsibility. If he can’t see that it’ll never work for him.

(btw this is a good argument against letting captains be selected by their peers.)

 

Yes!!

A team member can mightily contribute to the problems, but the leader is ultimately responsible for effectively analyzing and rectifying the situation. 

The caveat to this is if there simply aren't enough tools/talent available for a leader to have an option for improvement. IMO, that caveat is not all that much in play at IUBB.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,052]

Didn't realize that was what this board was supposed to do. Forgive us, sir.
good grief 

I’ll respond.

Ok, let’s just point to finger towards the kids who probably want to win and don’t know how or aren’t good enough.

If it’s effort, bench them. Kick them off the team, whatever.

To me, it’s almost the entire team responding this way to Archie. They are lost, confused, and embarrassed.

Now we have a pent up fanbase full of frustration and Smith, Durham, Green will be blamed.

Just like Romeo last year.

It’s the coaches responsibility, and winning cures all. Excuse making comes next. I don’t like seeing these guys take the brunt of our frustration.




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[Stuhoo 82,706]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’ll respond.

Ok, let’s just point to finger towards the kids who probably want to win and don’t know how or aren’t good enough.

If it’s effort, bench them. Kick them off the team, whatever.

To me, it’s almost the entire team responding this way to Archie. They are lost, confused, and embarrassed.

Now we have a pent up fanbase full of frustration and Smith, Durham, Green will be blamed.

Just like Romeo last year.

It’s the coaches responsibility, and winning cures all. Excuse making comes next. I don’t like seeing these guys take the brunt of our frustration.




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I agree with your premise, but looking at the board (especially lately) it seems to me that Archie is taking the brunt (though not the entirety) of our frustration lately.

[IUc2016 7,121]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’ll respond.

Ok, let’s just point to finger towards the kids who probably want to win and don’t know how or aren’t good enough.

If it’s effort, bench them. Kick them off the team, whatever.

To me, it’s almost the entire team responding this way to Archie. They are lost, confused, and embarrassed.

Now we have a pent up fanbase full of frustration and Smith, Durham, Green will be blamed.

Just like Romeo last year.

It’s the coaches responsibility, and winning cures all. Excuse making comes next. I don’t like seeing these guys take the brunt of our frustration.




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LITERALLY every person in this discussion has said the blame goes on Archie for not handling this properly and benching them. LITERALLY. 

Did you just skip over that part? 

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,052]

LITERALLY every person in this discussion has said the blame goes on Archie for not handling this properly and benching them. LITERALLY. 
Did you just skip over that part? 

After the fact.

Plant the seed of blame and let it grow. Everyone wants to believe it’s a bad seed or 2. Planting that seed allows people to think things get better when that seed is gone. Blame naturally goes there.

Losing Romeo was going to make things better this year, remember?

Then Green.

Now Smith.

I’ve never liked Smith as a player. I’ve been very hard on him.

To me, this is still one hundred percent on th coach.

Who knows, maybe Smith has good reason to be difficult.

Who knows, next year we find out, and therein lies the hope people can have like I mentioned in the first post.


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[Chris007 47,528]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

After the fact.

Plant the seed of blame and let it grow. Everyone wants to believe it’s a bad seed or 2. Planting that seed allows people to think things get better when that seed is gone. Blame naturally goes there.

Losing Romeo was going to make things better this year, remember?

Then Green.

Now Smith.

I’ve never liked Smith as a player. I’ve been very hard on him.

To me, this is still one hundred percent on th coach.

Who knows, maybe Smith has good reason to be difficult.

Who knows, next year we find out, and therein lies the hope people can have like I mentioned in the first post.


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I do agree with what Jerrod Odle said that they had a cancer on the 2001 team and when he left it was much better. I think this year is better without, Romeo but I think it could be better for sure.

I'm the biggest Archie supporter on here and I think this is his fault for not pushing people out or just not playing them, let alone starting them every game.