Negativity Thread

[8bucks]

For those wanting Archie gone. If it is recruiting that bothers you...take a look in the mirror. In an article by Hondo Carpenter of Spartan Nation SI this morning, he states that he talked to a recruit from last year, two from this year and one from the class of '21 that all stated that they "loved" Indiana and Coach Miller but turned their interest or committed to other schools because of IU fan scrutiny. Carpenter stated that at a "Mount Rushmore" school like IU, it was bad enough to recruit against other top level schools, but even more difficult to recruit against your own fans! There you have it folks!!

Thanks for sharing. I think it is definitely fair to say that some kids and families may believe this. However, I also think it would be something I would use to recruit against a school like IU. MSU has done very well recruiting our state but now Archie is starting to bring in some of those kids.

Is our fan base crazy. Sure and I bet MSU won’t discuss with recruits how hard it is to play against us in Assembly Hall with those fans cheering for their team. He will however bring up any stories he can about our fan base being crazy in the sense that article talked about.

It’s a communication battle. Schools recruit with positives about their program, negatives about the competition and they also have to counter claims from other coaches. We saw with Brooks that we lost that battle of information and he went to a schools whose fans did not want him because he did not want to go to a school whose fans might not want him.

Even Butlers coach did this recently when he told Chris that our fans were crazy calling for Archie’s head in year 3. He even stated how in year 2 his fans wanted him gone but now loved him because they are winning. I went to the Butler boards and sure enough there was a heavily discussed topic asking if he was the right person for the job.

I wish these “journalists” would push a little further and ask for examples. If we do have crazy fan examples they should be called out. But I strongly believe that the idea was either planted or strongly encouraged by Izzo. I even suspect someone from Izzos staff may have encouraged the writer to ask these questions.

Recruiting is a battle about a lot of things. Controlling the narrative about your program and your opponents programs is a huge part of this. Frankly I would trade crazy fans vs a program that has treated women so poorly.


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[Feathery]

I must admit I don’t like having a thread titled fire Archie Miller having over 50 pages on the front of the forum. That’s embarrassing. Lock the thread or change the title to just negativity thread. 

[8bucks]

I must admit I don’t like having a thread titled fire Archie Miller having over 50 pages on the front of the forum. That’s embarrassing. Lock the thread or change the title to just negativity thread. 

I think that is a good idea as well. If we have a bad streak like last year or don’t make the tournament then reopen. But things are looking very encouraging at the moment.


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[MikeRoberts]

I must admit I don’t like having a thread titled fire Archie Miller having over 50 pages on the front of the forum. That’s embarrassing. Lock the thread or change the title to just negativity thread. 

It has 50 pages because there is so much debate and sides to the conversation.

 

If the pro Archie people never posted there it would be 2 pages of like 10 people talking to themselves. It’s like counter protesters going to their oppositions rally, it stokes the fire

 

 

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[rcbowla]

It has 50 pages because there is so much debate and sides to the conversation.
 
If the pro Archie people never posted there it would be 2 pages of like 10 people talking to themselves. It’s like counter protesters going to their oppositions rally, it stokes the fire
 
 
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Good analogy

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[coonhounds]

This thread is a interesting read lol. Thanks for all these laughs. Fans hampering recruited can't be fixed. Hell Purdue's flat tells there kids mom he sucks. We also can't lock this thread it may be reason were doing better lol.

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[Josh]

12 hours ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Slow learners huh? Lol. If your goal is to come across like a pompous know it all, you receive the biggest and shiniest gold star for the day!! 
 

Here’s an alternative name for those slow learners. Realistic fans. Reality is Archie is going nowhere before the end of next season due to buyout numbers. If this season falls apart and next season is sub par, you won’t find many of us “slow learners” anymore. I’ll be all in at that point to move on. Until then, the only purpose calling for his head serves now is to negatively impact recruiting and possible future coaches. I don’t care if other fan bases do it. Reality is also that this season still has every chance to be, at minimum, a turnaround to really build on, and at best, something special. Choosing to believe in that doesn’t make anyone a slow learner.

And all this comparing to UK’s fan base is irrelevant. They continually win, Cal is in his 11th? year and has more players in the NBA than any other coach. If we were on year 11 of Archie and he had a ton of players in the NBA, won a bunch of conference titles, hung a banner, several final fours...the negative side of our fan base would not matter at all to recruits. Way earlier in this thread someone linked to OSU and UofL boards with threads questioning their coach. Several people were elated b/c they thought it proved some point about other fanbases being the same. Those threads combined to be a total of 4 pages by one single post at the time. Ours was on something like page 27. It wasn’t comparable. Plus, something the fast learners really need to understand is no one is trying to say that fans are THE problem. But they can be A problem.
 

We have an extremely passionate fan base. It’s amazing. But considering everything - where things stand this season, where Archie is at in his tenure, the reality of buyout numbers, etc. - a massive negative reaction can simply be unrealistic. Or, to relate it back to your post, some learners can just learn a little too fast. 

 

Pompous know it all posts go both ways.  Negatives and slow learners both do it.  Which is realistic?  I guess that depends upon your level of contentment with the current state of IU basketball.

In this thread, we had a slow learner tell us negatives that we were the problem because we're bad fans.  We blame the coach for losing.  They blame players on the bench who don't clap hard enough.  They said that these players on the bench were not only the problem, but they needed to be kicked off the team.  Which one of these opinions would scare players off?  Seriously, think about that.  Then they tell us that they are great fans and we are terrible?  Seriously??

I believe the slow learners deserve their name.  It takes 4 years to determine if somebody is a good coach?  But then after we win two big games after 2 and a half years of poor results they claim victory?  I'm sorry, if it takes 4 years to determine if somebody is a good coach, it takes much more than 2 wins to prove your point.  By slow learners own logic, it will take 4 years of winning before we can call him a good coach.

This thread isn't the problem.  The coach should always be held accountable.  Players on the bench who don't show the level of enthusiasm to appease some people should not.  That's nonsense.  That doesn't make somebody a better fan. 

Personally, I don't understand this "I'm a better fan than you, you're the problem with the program" stuff.  It's childish and it's an excuse.  It's pompous know it all.

But that's just me.

[RatpigHoosier]

All I can say is I’m pretty happy with a current 15-4 record and being in the top part of the B1G standings. It’s nice living in the here and now.


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[Stuhoo]

1 minute ago, RatpigHoosier said:

All I can say is I’m pretty happy with a current 15-4 record and being in the top part of the B1G standings. It’s nice living in the here and now.


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Wrong thread.

Stop going off-topic!  :)

[mdn82]

Wrong thread.
Stop going off-topic!  :)

Damn slow learners.


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[Josh]

I want to be the 1000th post in here 

[Feathery]

Thanks for the title change mods. Much better look. 
 

I was pretty negative about Archie a few weeks ago. He has turned it around and I’m back to being cautiously optimistic about him. It doesn’t have to do will the wins and losses either. It’s about the effort and accountability. Those are culture defining and will set is up for a promising future. 

[MikeRoberts]

I want to be the 1000th post in here 

Mdn beat you to it


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[NashvilleHoosier]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

Pompous know it all posts go both ways.  Negatives and slow learners both do it.  Which is realistic?  I guess that depends upon your level of contentment with the current state of IU basketball.

Being realistic has nothing to do with being content. No, I'm not content with where we are as a program right now. I have extremely high expectations. I personally believe there isn't a single reason we can't and shouldn't compete at the same level as the other blue bloods year in and year out. But that's not the reality of where we are right now. 

In this thread, we had a slow learner tell us negatives that we were the problem because we're bad fans.  We blame the coach for losing.  They blame players on the bench who don't clap hard enough.  They said that these players on the bench were not only the problem, but they needed to be kicked off the team.  Which one of these opinions would scare players off?  Seriously, think about that.  Then they tell us that they are great fans and we are terrible?  Seriously??

Yeah I don't know who you're referring to here so I won't spend time trying to defend what they were trying to get at there. And for the record, nothing I've said has been intended to suggest certain people are bad fans. I'm fine with being pissed at where we are and expecting more. I only take issue with how quick of a trigger our negative side has and how amplified they are, considering the entire context of the situation. Again, to reiterate one of my points, if we fall apart this season and underachieve again next year, I'm all aboard the unbridled negativity train. 

I believe the slow learners deserve their name.  It takes 4 years to determine if somebody is a good coach? Context, buddy. The 4 years comes from the buyout numbers. Again, the buyout numbers. It's the buyout. THE BUYOUT. He will go nowhere until after the fourth year b/c of the buyout. That has nothing to do with how anyone determines whether he's a good coach or not. But then after we win two big games after 2 and a half years of poor results they claim victory?  I'm sorry, if it takes 4 years to determine if somebody is a good coach, it takes much more than 2 wins to prove your point.  By slow learners own logic, it will take 4 years of winning before we can call him a good coach.

You're hearing what you want to hear on this point. No one has claimed that 2 victories is a total validation. Again, context. We've shown signs of turning a corner at this point. That doesn't mean it won't go off the rails. But if we keep this momentum and build off of it there's just as much reason that everyone calling for his head after the Maryland road game or before will look like fools as there is any other outcome. We're taking some pride in some positive momentum, not screaming from the rooftops that Archie is the program's savior for winning 2 games. Thinking that we are is just hearing what you want to hear. I'm sort of losing sight of who the slow learners are here...

This thread isn't the problem.  The coach should always be held accountable.  Players on the bench who don't show the level of enthusiasm to appease some people should not.  That's nonsense.  That doesn't make somebody a better fan. 

Personally, I don't understand this "I'm a better fan than you, you're the problem with the program" stuff. Well I literally said the fans weren't THE problem. So again, I think you're hearing what you want to hear. It's childish (the guy calling people slow learners accusing others of being childish? That's quite rich.) and it's an excuse.  It's pompous know it all.

I don't think this is a "I'm a better fan..." conversation. If it were, I would agree its childish. None of anything I've said had any intentions of chest pounding or suggesting I'm a better fan than anyone. I've included several compliments of our fanbase....which I do believe is amazing overall. So if anything I've said seemed to insinuate I thought I was a better fan, my apologies. 

But that's just me.

 

[RaceToTheTop]

Odds are this thread could be changed back to “fire Archie Miller” and then changed back again before the end of the season.

[rcbowla]

 

So if it falls apart will the "pumpers" look foolish the same as if the opposite happens? Or will everyone attack people for pointing that out? I've got $ on the latter. In the end we all want the same thing. If, imo it's a BIG if, Archie gets things humming I'll admit I was wrong and be just as happy as you or anyone else. However to declare victory after 2 wins, which btw came 2 games removed from some of the worst offense I've ever seen at IU, is premature. I know you even addressed this point which I'm not blaming you for but some have implied this sentiment. Again negative or positive we all really truly do want the same thing

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[rcbowla]

I mean look at the PSU prediction thread. So far nobody believes IU will win. How can people really feel good about things when we all fully expect IU to lose to PSU? I understand PSU is pretty good this year but come on. IU near it's full potential should not be concerned with PSU. I get that year in and year out teams will come from nowhere and be really good but growing up we didn't give a single **** about who was playing good that year and instead expected to beat all their ***** no matter what. That's what I want back.......the confidence, arrogance, swagger, entitlement or whatever phrase you want to use.

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[SlamaJamaSisley]

Wait a minute!  I stay away from browsing BtownBanners for a day and now we are no longer wanting Archie fired?  What in tarnation happened in here?    #InArchWeTrust!

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

So if it falls apart will the "pumpers" look foolish the same as if the opposite happens? Or will everyone attack people for pointing that out? I've got $ on the latter. In the end we all want the same thing. If, imo it's a BIG if, Archie gets things humming I'll admit I was wrong and be just as happy as you or anyone else. However to declare victory after 2 wins, which btw came 2 games removed from some of the worst offense I've ever seen at IU, is premature. I know you even addressed this point which I'm not blaming you for but some have implied this sentiment. Again negative or positive we all really truly do want the same thing

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Same happened with Tom Allen. Victory after one season when the rest of us want to see consistency. 6-8 wins every year. Bowl game every year. That’s pretty mild. Tough in our situation but mild. As for basketball, Archie will need to put together 3-4 good-great seasons and keep it consistent. We should expect the NCAA tourney every single year. Only reason to be content with an NIT showing is if you’re in North Carolina’s situation. Where the 4 seasons prior you’ve been to the Natty game twice, won one of those and been to the Sweet 16 once. Going 121-32(55-17) over those two years. Winning your conference regular season 3 out of the 4 years and winning the conference tournament once. Why is it so awful to ask and expect that much success? Or as much as Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State or even Arizona? At one point Zona had an 8 year stretch where they won 23+ games and only missed the NCAA tourney once(the year they won 23 games). And going to the Elite 8 three times.


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[NashvilleHoosier]

10 hours ago, rcs29 said:

So if it falls apart will the "pumpers" look foolish the same as if the opposite happens? Or will everyone attack people for pointing that out? I've got $ on the latter. In the end we all want the same thing. If, imo it's a BIG if, Archie gets things humming I'll admit I was wrong and be just as happy as you or anyone else. However to declare victory after 2 wins, which btw came 2 games removed from some of the worst offense I've ever seen at IU, is premature. I know you even addressed this point which I'm not blaming you for but some have implied this sentiment. Again negative or positive we all really truly do want the same thing

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Well, sure. When I said those calling for his head ending up looking like fools is as likely as any other outcome, that include sunshine pumpers looking like fools being equally as likely. And that’s kind of one of the main points some of us are trying to make. Neither is a foregone conclusion. 
 

But I think one problem we have in this thread is that when points are argued against the need to fire our coach, it’s seen as pumping sunshine. I don’t really see anyone pumping sunshine. I see people willing to have patience considering all the factors at play here. Now, admittedly I have not read every single post on this thread. I could have missed something. But if anyone IS pumping sunshine after these 2 wins, then yes it’s quite premature.

Youre right that we all want the same thing. And it’s game day so GO HOOSIERS!!