IU vs Notre Dame 12/21 Noon ESPN

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, BottomLine said:

The way I look at Hunter is that he has been completely shut down for almost a whole year.  He wasn't even allowed to get in the gym to get up shots because of his injury.  He didn't resume full activity until just before the start of practice this fall.  The best we are probably going to see from him this year is some spot time here and there.  Then with a solid off season of conditioning and basketball work he should make some major strides forward next year.  Was looking forward to seeing more this year but it just isn't there at this time.

I'm not as concerned with him getting there eventually as I am with him getting some minutes during tight games in order to get him where he needs to be.  He's still a nice athlete despite the injury.  His three point stroke isn't there, though, and the missed shots are mounting.

[JaybobHoosier]

Anyone else a little concerned that Hunter's shot hasn't seemed to return much yet?  I know he's coming off a major injury, just a little concerned that there hasn't seemed to be any gain in his accuracy since the beginning of the year.
I know he's going to have to play and shoot his way back into rhythm but until then his minutes might keep producing those 1 out of 3, 0 of 2 from three type of nights.  Kind of a by product of the injury and now that conference play is underway and we'll be looking at closer games, those things can get magnified.

I’m not worried, and it’s just unfortunate that it may take him until next year to play to his talents. Not to his fault, just a freak injury/condition took away a complete year from him. All of us were hopeful to see what he could truly do, but while there’s still plenty of time left in the season to do it, it just seems more likely this year is strictly getting his feet wet and body getting back into the game of basketball.

If it does click for him soon then look out, because he would add a multi-dimensional player that we don’t really have right now on offense.


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[pumpfake]

Regarding Hunter, I thought yesterday he looked comfortable on the court for the first time this year.  Up until now, he looked rather mechanical but yesterday he was much more fluid.  His shot has been off, that's for sure, but he did have a nifty move and basket in the first half.

I wonder how his shot looks in practice?  Same goes for Justin Smith.  I'd bet both of those guys shoot it well in non-game situations but really need to be knocking them down when it counts.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

So next year we will take on Butler for the best overall record in the Classic. And if the Classic gets extended again and Purdue stops losing they might get to .500 in 5 years 

I pray it ends for good.


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[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I pray it ends for good.


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I’d prefer for it to expand where we play both teams every year 

They are good neutral court games. Both teams will be consistently at least a quad 2 game. 
 

1 less game we would have to worry about scheduling 

[JSHoosier]

32 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I pray it ends for good.


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Frankly, I like it.  Just kind of wish there was a little more variety in the teams we play.

As is though the team still gets more from playing ND or Butler then the SCLSU MudDogs.

[JaybobHoosier]

I’d prefer for it to expand where we play both teams every year 
They are good neutral court games. Both teams will be consistently at least a quad 2 game. 
 
1 less game we would have to worry about scheduling 

I think it would be neat to add to it. With conference games starting earlier, just make it like the Maui Invitational, but the IU-Purdue game can count towards a conference game (I know some will hate this and I totally get it). Add Evansville and Indiana St., and make it a fun little Indiana Classic tournament.


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[Honkyman]

With the Crossroads Classic and the BIG 10--ACC Challenge, IU is guaranteed two quality non-conference opponents. The Crossroads Classic provides a high profile game in the state of Indiana where IU prioritizes recruiting. Playing either Butler or Notre Dame every year is good for the program, although it would be better if we scheduled both teams during non-conference play.

[HoosierAloha]

Did anyone catch the dig at our schedule in the second half? Our noncon isn’t great (KenPom 268) but Notre Dames is (345). Ouch.


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[HoosierAloha]

With the Crossroads Classic and the BIG 10--ACC Challenge, IU is guaranteed two quality non-conference opponents. The Crossroads Classic provides a high profile game in the state of Indiana where IU prioritizes recruiting. Playing either Butler or Notre Dame every year is good for the program, although it would be better if we scheduled both teams during non-conference play.

I’d also like to play home-home or 2-1 against some of the smaller in state schools. It’d be cool for some of the kids to play just down the street from where they grew up.


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[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

Did anyone catch the dig at our schedule in the second half? Our noncon isn’t great (KenPom 268) but Notre Dames is (345). Ouch.


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IMO, non-conference SOS is done completely incorrectly.  To me, non-con SOS should be based on what a bubble team's record should be projected to be based on that schedule.

For instance, playing a team ranked #1 and a team ranked #341 will basically have the same SOS as a team that plays #170 and #171.  But it's infinitely easier for a bubble team to go 2-0 against #170 and #171 than it is to go 2-0 against #1 and #341.  Playing #1 is basically nearly a guaranteed loss and #341 is a guaranteed win (maybe if you play the #1 team at home it's a little better).  But playing #170 and #171 -- particularly when teams don't play those kind of games on the road non-con -- probably has about a 90% chance to go 2-0.

Consider this:  which pair does IU have a better chance of going 2-0 against:  Delaware and Florida International or Duke and High Point?  I think the answer is obviously Delaware and Florida International, yet the SOS would be the same regardless of pair.

[HoosierAloha]

IMO, non-conference SOS is done completely incorrectly.  To me, non-con SOS should be based on what a bubble team's record should be projected to be based on that schedule.
For instance, playing a team ranked #1 and a team ranked #341 will basically have the same SOS as a team that plays #170 and #171.  But it's infinitely easier for a bubble team to go 2-0 against #170 and #171 than it is to go 2-0 against #1 and #341.  Playing #1 is basically nearly a guaranteed loss and #341 is a guaranteed win (maybe if you play the #1 team at home it's a little better).  But playing #170 and #171 -- particularly when teams don't play those kind of games on the road non-con -- probably has about a 90% chance to go 2-0.
Consider this:  which pair does IU have a better chance of going 2-0 against:  Delaware and Florida International or Duke and High Point?  I think the answer is obviously Delaware and Florida International, yet the SOS would be the same regardless of pair.

Excellent point and something I was looking at yesterday. These are all KenPom numbers.

Auburn has a noncon SOS of 99. That’s a pretty solid noncon SOS. However, they really haven’t faced a top notch opponent. NC State at home is a good win though.

(H) Georgia Southern (168)
(N) Davison (74)
(A) South Alabama (181)
(H) Cal State Northridge (247)
(H) Colgate (132)
(N) New Mexico (87)
(N) Richmond (70)
(H) Furman (75)
(N) Saint Louis (92)
(H) NC State (36)
(H) Lehigh (259)

This is a way to bump up your SOS without facing too harsh of competition. I’d like to see us get rid of those 250+ cupcakes and replace them with that 100-150 range opponents.


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[Hillsdale87]

Don't think we are going to get Al out of the starting lineup.  If Franklin continues to move forward, I think Green is probably more in danger of losing his spot.  Yes, I know he can shoot. but he kills our offense with his dribble and his I'm gonna get mine play.  Al is more of a team player.  Would rather see Green with our second unit, which has some offensive limitations and has a tendency to take away our momentum.
 

Al makes just about as many terrible plays as Green. He just makes them in far less flashy ways, so people don't freak out as much. His are more often careless while Green is trying to do too much. But Durham takes a number of bad shots too. Both need to get better, but I'd much prefer to see Green than Durham right now



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[Hillsdale87]

Anyone else a little concerned that Hunter's shot hasn't seemed to return much yet?  I know he's coming off a major injury, just a little concerned that there hasn't seemed to be any gain in his accuracy since the beginning of the year.
I know he's going to have to play and shoot his way back into rhythm but until then his minutes might keep producing those 1 out of 3, 0 of 2 from three type of nights.  Kind of a by product of the injury and now that conference play is underway and we'll be looking at closer games, those things can get magnified.

His shot looks really flat. Not sure if that's how it usually looks, but it really stood out to me yesterday.


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[Honkyman]

Devonte Green needs to play.  Though he overdoes it at times, Green is the only one on the team who can create offense. Al plays harder than just about anyone but he lacks athleticism and judgment. He decides he is going to shoot or drive whether that course is best or not.  Franklin had a great game against Notre Dame but overall he is an average shooter.

[HoosierAloha]

Al makes just about as many terrible plays as Green. He just makes them in far less flashy ways, so people don't freak out as much. His are more often careless while Green is trying to do too much. But Durham takes a number of bad shots too. Both need to get better, but I'd much prefer to see Green than Durham right now



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Durham’s passes at the feet of our bigs was frustrating. We had so many interior or entry passes that were just terrible. Some were uncalled for and others were just poorly executed. We need to clean that up quick, fast, and in a hurry. It won’t fly in the Big Ten.


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[HoosierAloha]

Devonte Green needs to play.  Though he overdoes it at times, Green is the only one on the team who can create offense. Al plays harder than just about anyone but he lacks athleticism and judgment. He decides he is going to shoot or drive whether that course is best or not.  Franklin had a great game against Notre Dame but overall he is an average shooter.

I’d argue that Phin can create offense for himself and others. He needs to get completely healthy and knock off the rust. He hasn’t had the best start to his sophomore campaign but needs to get it going to push this team to another level.


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[BottomLine]

1 hour ago, Free Jurkin! said:

Al makes just about as many terrible plays as Green. He just makes them in far less flashy ways, so people don't freak out as much. His are more often careless while Green is trying to do too much. But Durham takes a number of bad shots too. Both need to get better, but I'd much prefer to see Green than Durham right now



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Neither is without faults.  I just don't trust Green.  Archie is getting paid big bucks to figure out the problem.  All we can do is have opinions.  I thought the last play of the game yesterday said volumes.  See if you can find a replay.  Ball goes through the post to Jackson-Davis, who is promptly double teamed.  He pivots and passes the ball to Durham, who is midway between Franklin in the corner and Green, open at the top of the key.  A ND player is trying to close on Durham, who instantly passes the ball to Franklin for the winning shot.  He could have gone to Green also but he didn't.  Imagine for a second that Green and Durham are reversed and the ball goes to Green,  Does he make the pass to an open man, or does he force a shot, or does he put the ball on the floor and drive into the lane and shoot his "floater"?  Me may have still won the game and Green would have been the hero instead of Franklin.  Or we may have lost.  What I have little doubt of is that in that scenario Green does not pass the ball.  There is the difference.  I think Durham plays for the team, and after over three years of watching, I think Green plays for himself.  Do I wish Durham had Green's talent?  You betcha.  Do I wish Green were more aware that there is no I in TEAM?  Without a doubt.

[Old Friend]

Indiana is winning close games.  You can argue they shouldn't be close, but Indiana is winning close games.  They also smoked a really good team.  Florida State is 10-2 and #14 in Sagarin (a subjective, computer based ranking system I think paints a decent picture of reality. Indiana is 33rd right now).   UConn and ND are both in the 70;s.

Indiana's not a national contender right now,  but they are learning how to win with different players leading the way seemingly every night.  It's Green, it's Phinisee, it's Franklin, it's Jackson-Davis, it has been Brunk in short stretches, it's been Smith a time or two, it was Durham early.  I said a long time ago this team is all about next season.  Especially as kids develop as leaders, assuming everyone's back (and until Jackson-Davis gets a jump shot from 15-18 feet, he's not yet an NBA player), Indiana's team next year will be among the deepest and most experienced in the country.   This season?  It's not pretty, but they're learning how to win.

Kentucky has lost 3 times.  Once to 212th ranked Evansville.   Duke lost to 109th ranked Stephen F. Austin.  Purdue already has 5 losses.  So does North Carolina.  Indiana played horribly at Wisconsin.  Absolutely.  But....they haven't laid an egg in any other game, despite how ugly it's looked at times. I wish their schedule had been a little tougher, but at the end of the day, Indiana is sitting in a decent position, and I still laugh at the people who predict the sky is falling because of how Archie looks or how bad he is as a coach.   

For the record, his winning % at Indiana is higher than Crean's was and about equal to Mike Davis.  That's not to point out anything other than perspective.  He's also grown as a coach in the last 2 seasons.  I don't think Indiana will set the world on fire this season, but I don't see "dire" either.

[JHoosier914]

Indiana is winning close games.  You can argue they shouldn't be close, but Indiana is winning close games.

I know you had a very long and insightful post, and I generally agree with you on most points, however, I wanted to single out the following line above. I’m not sure if you are on of those people who believe the games shouldn’t be as close as they are, and that’s not the point of my post. My point is that Vegas, who typically knows what they are talking about or else they wouldn’t be making money the way they do, have had most of these close wins as exactly that...close games.

V UCONN—spread was around 2. We won by 3.
V ND—spread was around 3, we won by 2.

Nebraska is an outlier and they have proven to gel together and be a better team as of late than most expected. And every other game, sans Wiscy, we won by double digits. So, this is just one mans opinion, but people (again, not saying you OF) should NOT argue these games ‘shouldn’t be close.’


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