IUBB vs Wisconsin Game Thread 12/7 @ 4:30 pm BTN

[yogisballin 2,288]

To be fair, he’s starting but not really getting what I’d call starter’s minutes.  I think he’s right at 19 minutes per game.  I thought today was a bad match up for him and thought Race was a better guy to have in.  I certainty could see him losing minutes to Race going forward.

I’ve said this all year. I think we are better with race on the floor vs brunk. Not even close for me. Wisky couldn’t miss today, well, the first 25 minutes or so they couldn’t anyway


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[Honkyman 1,670]

Neither Tom Crean nor now Archie Miller have demonstrated they know how to put an IU team on the floor that can adequately defend against an opponent that hits 3-point shots. When Wisconsin started making their 3s, it opened the floor and they ran right past the IU defenders to hit layups and short jumpers.

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,829]

Jeeeeeeze this place is a trash heap. This game sucked. The team sucked. Archie sucked.

 

You all are acting like this is the norm this year when it’s the outlier. So get a grip and we’ll see you at the next game.

Is it the outlier? This season, sure. (But we’ve played FSU at home) Over Archies tenure, not so much. People are rightfully pissed, it feels like last season, and the seasons past.

 

Archie will need to build a consistent winner to gain the benefit of the doubt. Can he do that? That’s what we are waiting to see.

 

But, to not be pissed or to have some concerns after last nights performance seems rather nonchalant considering our recent past.

 

I’m not calling for Archies head or Glass like others. I want a consistent winner. Look at Duke and UK? They drop those home games. Likely an aberration based off track record. I still say they have good seasons. We are on a different track with different concerns.

 

The nice thing is we have some winnable, quality games upcoming that we should win to right the ship.

 

 

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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,829]

Are you counting yourself in this round table of noble knights on the quest for the holy grail? Maybe put your 1/10 of Tom Allen’s salary where your mouth is and make change happen. Until then, you and the rest of the king’s men are peasants like the rest.

Nice shot. That wasn’t the figure, first of all. My point wasn’t to “flex”. My point is college coaches make an amazing figure. It truly shocks me how much money they can make. In some ways it’s more a statement on the rich getting richer. When you think you have doctors out there who (not me) have patients LIFES in their hands and they make 1/10, 1/12, 1/20 what a college football coach makes. It’s truly remarkable in my mind. That was my point. Hope it reads better that way.

As far as donating. I do my part, but compared to the real money makers out there I am a peasant.

Thanks walking boot for your time.


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[VO5 8,272]

Here are some things I’ve noticed about the staff and our play in general that is concerning:

roster construction - our lack of playmakers and guards on the roster is glaring. Archie and staff really needed to get a creator or shot maker in the past two classes and really hasn’t done that. Basketball is a guards game and having a few good ones can make up for many issues. Why we have so many frontcourt guys and fringe wings on our team is baffling.

toughness - everything is fine when we’re winning, but if we get punched in the mouth our guys instantly get soft and let runs snowball. This is a trend and it’s on the staff to instill toughness. Never thought this would be an issue, but here we are.

Sub patterns/starting lineup - never really noticed this before this year, but archie is pretty crappy in this regard so far. Why Brunk continues to start is a mystery. He put Brunk and Davis on Reuvers yesterday while Race barely got minutes. Another head scratcher. 
 

defense - the packline is supposed to be a strength and our guys seem lost. If any teams swing it around quick or pass it well it’s like we’re running in circles. It eventually leads to a layup or a wide open 3 on many possessions. Wisconsin made us look silly doing this. And they suck on offense.

im not ready to give up on the season, I just want to see improvement and consistency from this program and the staff. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. I am concerned though. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 81,119]

How we bounce back against UConn is the key for me.  If we play a solid game of basketball on both ends of the court I'll still feel good about the season.  If we lay another egg well....................................!

[JSHoosier 19,580]

Can they bounce back?  That's the question.  The concern is that they looked exactly the same for 2 months last year, and again in the must win game that was only must win because of said 2 months.

[CandyStripers 197]

Same **** different year!

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[CandyStripers 197]

I don't understand the Brunk obsession. Would much rather have someone like a Jake Forrester on the team for 4 years who can develop. He couldn't even sniff the floor last year and Brunk is starting. Brunk is going to get eaten alive in B1G play.

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[HoosierAloha 29,897]

Here are some things I’ve noticed about the staff and our play in general that is concerning:
roster construction - our lack of playmakers and guards on the roster is glaring. Archie and staff really needed to get a creator or shot maker in the past two classes and really hasn’t done that. Basketball is a guards game and having a few good ones can make up for many issues. Why we have so many frontcourt guys and fringe wings on our team is baffling.
toughness - everything is fine when we’re winning, but if we get punched in the mouth our guys instantly get soft and let runs snowball. This is a trend and it’s on the staff to instill toughness. Never thought this would be an issue, but here we are.
Sub patterns/starting lineup - never really noticed this before this year, but archie is pretty crappy in this regard so far. Why Brunk continues to start is a mystery. He put Brunk and Davis on Reuvers yesterday while Race barely got minutes. Another head scratcher. 
 
defense - the packline is supposed to be a strength and our guys seem lost. If any teams swing it around quick or pass it well it’s like we’re running in circles. It eventually leads to a layup or a wide open 3 on many possessions. Wisconsin made us look silly doing this. And they suck on offense.
im not ready to give up on the season, I just want to see improvement and consistency from this program and the staff. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. I am concerned though. 

Did anyone else notice the switches on defense yesterday? It kind of baffled me that we were switching in some of those possessions. Is this something new or did I just ignore it in the last two seasons?

Toughness - mentally and physically. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I would like to see some of the upperclassmen get did up with the “laying of eggs” in some of these games. It’s a culture that we just don’t have. Remember when Yogi and Bryant went at each other in Maui? That was a horrible showing at the Invite but at least they were pissed and got it figured out.

Staff - they need to figure these lineups out quick. When there’s an opposing 5 that gets hot from deep we can’t continue to put Brunk or Davis on them. Playing the percentages early is fine but once they get in a rhythm we need to change that quick, fast, and in a hurry. Race and Jackson-Davis are plenty strong enough to defend most of these types of players. Any smaller and quicker Smith should be able.

We need Phin back like yesterday.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,114]

This was the first game in a long time, I have been pissed about a game. That was absolutely ridiculous and inexcusable. I wasn't even that upset at all the losses last year because of all the injuries. No one on the team, including the coach, showed up. Totally uncalled for. They need to do a lot of soul searching after that game.
Having said that and without going through the whole thread, I am not ready to say this is a lost season based on 1 game like I'm sure some did.

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[RaceToTheTop 23,785]

1 hour ago, CandyStripers said:

I don't understand the Brunk obsession. Would much rather have someone like a Jake Forrester on the team for 4 years who can develop. He couldn't even sniff the floor last year and Brunk is starting. Brunk is going to get eaten alive in B1G play.

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Considering Jake couldn’t learn the plays and was a foul machine when he was in, I’ll take Brunk.

 

[LamarCheeks 16,856]

Archie said Tuesday night that he thought it was Justin's best collegiate game so far, without regard to any numbers. Because he was encouraging his teammates, getting them in the right places, showing leadership. That's fine and dandy when you're winning or playing relatively well. But this squad needs a guy who will kick some a$$ when the chips are down -- who will call out his teammates and get in their faces for unacceptable play or pathetic effort. I'm not sure we have that guy. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,224]

Archie said Tuesday night that he thought it was Justin's best collegiate game so far, without regard to any numbers. Because he was encouraging his teammates, getting them in the right places, showing leadership. That's fine and dandy when you're winning or playing relatively well. But this squad needs a guy who will kick some a$$ when the chips are down -- who will call out his teammates and get in their faces for unacceptable play or pathetic effort. I'm not sure we have that guy. 

When your coach doesn’t do it much... don’t expect many players.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

“You could tell throughout the course of the game we had a quiet group today. All the way around,” Miller said. “You’ve got to have a rallying cry at some point, someone’s got to be able to jump start you to shake you up a little bit.”

Quote from Archie on the game  he’s got a point maybe we should pay somebody three million a year to lead these guys  

 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,905]

This is a very important season for Archie. He has done everything right off the court so far. He has recruited the state well. He has built relationships with in-state high school coaches and former players. He has updated the facilities for the guys. He's got the team's housing upgraded to the really nice apartment complex by the stadium.

But, at a certain point you have to have results on the court too. Making the tournament by your third season as coach is a very reasonable expectation at a school like IU, imo. If Archie fails to make the tournament again this year it will hurt recruiting momentum and he'll likely find himself on the hot seat heading into year 4. I hope that he can get things figured out this season because I really like him as our coach.

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,829]

This is a very important season for Archie. He has done everything right off the court so far. He has recruited the state well. He has built relationships with in-state high school coaches and former players. He has updated the facilities for the guys. He's got the team's housing upgraded to the really nice apartment complex by the stadium.
But, at a certain point you have to have results on the court too. Making the tournament by your third season as coach is a very reasonable expectation at a school like IU, imo. If Archie fails to make the tournament again this year it will hurt recruiting momentum and he'll likely find himself on the hot seat heading into year 4. I hope that he can get things figured out this season because I really like him as our coach.

Yes, and as happened to Crean, 2021 recruiting class will be another measure. Great in state players, we will find out if they are still buying what we are selling.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,829]

Will Brunk be this years Fitzner?

Personal opinion. I like Brunk much better.

But I’ve been saying for a while (not just last night) the B1Gs bigs will work him. It’s been a concern. I didn’t expect it vs Wisconsin though.


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[finky 298]

2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Did anyone else notice the switches on defense yesterday? It kind of baffled me that we were switching in some of those possessions. Is this something new or did I just ignore it in the last two seasons?

Toughness - mentally and physically. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I would like to see some of the upperclassmen get did up with the “laying of eggs” in some of these games. It’s a culture that we just don’t have. Remember when Yogi and Bryant went at each other in Maui? That was a horrible showing at the Invite but at least they were pissed and got it figured out.

Staff - they need to figure these lineups out quick. When there’s an opposing 5 that gets hot from deep we can’t continue to put Brunk or Davis on them. Playing the percentages early is fine but once they get in a rhythm we need to change that quick, fast, and in a hurry. Race and Jackson-Davis are plenty strong enough to defend most of these types of players. Any smaller and quicker Smith should be able.

We need Phin back like yesterday.


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If we continue to allow other teams offense's to drive to the hole 1 on 1 against us, it will be another long Big Ten season.  The Defense was just horrific yesterday.  One game makes not a season and the good news, the defense only looked this lost yesterday and it is not a pattern.  This group of guys need to learn how to bounce back when they get "punched"

[AKHoosier 6,592]

That was basically a practice for Wisconsin.  It's why I said I can't pick IU to win up in Madison until we actually do.

How they bounce back against UConn is huge.  If we can beat UConn and ND on a neutral floor, then take down Nebraska and Arkansas, I'd be very happy and forget about this game pretty quickly.

It's just a lot more concerning that we cannot defend the 3.  If we continue to allow teams to have their best shooting performances of the year from outside, Archie has to re-examine the type of defense he wants to run.