State of the program

[biteoftheapple]

Not really relevant any longer. Crean is gone. The players have exhausted their eligigility. Sure we were all disappointed. But iys irrelevant history.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Not really relevant any longer. Crean is gone. The players have exhausted their eligigility. Sure we were all disappointed. But iys irrelevant history.

But if we don't talk about it every few months, we might actually move on. Sure it suckedand I was pissed, but life goes on.

 

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[HinnyHoosier]

If he was making middle of the pack money I would be ok with middle of the pack results. 

Except that this is Indiana Basketball. The problem becomes when you're ok with settling for middle of the pack results regardless of the money. Luckily, you're not ok with it. Otherwise you or the rest of us wouldn't be wasting time watching, let alone spending off season time on this board.

I don't know, the statement is just surprising to me I guess.


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[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, HinnyHoosier said:

 

Except that this is Indiana Basketball. The problem becomes when you're ok with settling for middle of the pack results regardless of the money. Luckily, you're not ok with it. Otherwise you or the rest of us wouldn't be wasting time watching, let alone spending off season time on this board.

I don't know, the statement is just surprising to me I guess.


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I don’t support spending middle of the pack money. I can assure you of that 

[Uspshoosier]

For fans looking for good news, in the last month IU got commitments from 2 of its top targets. If you are one to believe in positive or negative momentum in recruiting you got to believe IU and the staff have some positive momentum on their side. IU went from 0 commitments to landing 2 top targets in less then a month. If you like team rankings 247 has IU at 14th for the 2020 class. Still early and lots of things can change but as of now IU has a top 14 class. Hopefully Cross is next.


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[8bucks]

For fans looking for good news, in the last month IU got commitments from 2 of its top targets. If you are one to believe in positive or negative momentum in recruiting you got to believe IU and the staff have some positive momentum on their side. IU went from 0 commitments to landing 2 top targets in less then a month. If you like team rankings 247 has IU at 14th for the 2020 class. Still early and lots of things can change but as of now IU has a top 14 class. Hopefully Cross is next.


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I agree. It definitely appeared to me as if our momentum had stalled. It could have just been the appearance of being slow as I don’t know what really goes not but we did seem to miss on top targets. Getting two top targets in a row feels very good. Getting three would feel very good


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[Honkyman]

Leal and Galloway were the easiest of the targets to land. I believe Archie will need to show better performance than the last two years in actual games before any more top 50 players commit (Romeo and TJD committed before the awful losing streak during Big Ten play).

[yogisballin]

Leal and Galloway were the easiest of the targets to land. I believe Archie will need to show better performance than the last two years in actual games before any more top 50 players commit (Romeo and TJD committed before the awful losing streak during Big Ten play).

Your first sentence is sooo easy to say after the fact huh? Fwiw, I think you’re wrong.


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[Honkyman]

Easy to say after the fact? If neither had chosen IU, the fan base would be going nuts. Obviously, recruiting is rarely easy. But those two were inclined to choose IU before they even received offers. Regarding the other point, we will know soon enough whether Archie can reel in any top 50 talent before demonstrating the team can perform better than last season.

[Stuhoo]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Leal and Galloway were the easiest of the targets to land. I believe Archie will need to show better performance than the last two years in actual games before any more top 50 players commit (Romeo and TJD committed before the awful losing streak during Big Ten play).

 

1 hour ago, yogisballin said:

Your first sentence is sooo easy to say after the fact huh? Fwiw, I think you’re wrong.


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My speculation is that to get the commitment from Anthony Leal, we had to "not screw it up." To get the Trey Galloway commitment we had to do plenty to assert ourselves. 

The staff did a great job on both fronts.

[Honkyman]

I don't disagree that Archie and his staff did a great job and that it is great that Leal and Galloway committed. I am saying that recruiting will be more difficult now that the remaining 2020 targets are out-of-state.

[Feathery]

58 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

I don't disagree that Archie and his staff did a great job and that it is great that Leal and Galloway committed. I am saying that recruiting will be more difficult now that the remaining 2020 targets are out-of-state.

Which is why it’s always important to recruit the state strong. It’s the base of all recruiting, bc you have the advantage of being the home state school. Going out of state is always harder. So getting a solid base from the state allows you to maintain a solid level on a yearly basis. Great job by the staff. I believe results will follow, as we take another step on the court this year. 

[Uspshoosier]

I don't disagree that Archie and his staff did a great job and that it is great that Leal and Galloway committed. I am saying that recruiting will be more difficult now that the remaining 2020 targets are out-of-state.

That’s recruiting 101. Geography is probably one of the most important factors when it comes to recruiting. That’s why recruiting the state of Indiana is so important to the Indiana’s head coach. The State of Indiana produces talent. Of course Galloway and Leal would be the “easiest” (not the words I would use), most likely for Indiana to get a commitment from. Just like next year Lander and Kaufman will be the “easiest” recruits for Indiana to get despite them being highly ranked


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[Alford Bailey]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

I don't disagree that Archie and his staff did a great job and that it is great that Leal and Galloway committed. I am saying that recruiting will be more difficult now that the remaining 2020 targets are out-of-state.

Agree.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I am happy with the 2 signings but it alone doesn’t change my “wait and see approach”.

I also don’t think these commitments necessarily speak to recruiting momentum, either.

It’s great that we got these guys, who have both dreamed of being Hoosiers for a while.

Both a good/great players. I’m hoping and kind of expecting that getting players that give a damn will make a difference with wins and losses.

This season and 2021 recruiting will tell me everything I need to know. Do we make the tournament? Do we land 2 of Lander, Furst, Kaufman? Those are my benchmarks.

Landing Garcia or Cross in 2020 would be a good statement as both are heavily nationally recruited.


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[biteoftheapple]

I too am on the wait and sed list. While both signing were good for the program, neither will carry a load to create sn excellent squad...imo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Great start to the 2020 recruiting cycle getting two quality in state kids who are hard nosed and care deeply about IU basketball. Can't ask for much more than that. Finishing off with Garcia and/or Cross would be excellent.

In season - I think we would all like to see the offense improve quite a bit from what was either stagnant or feed Romeo/Juwan one-on-one all day. Would also like to see more general player development. There's no reason a guy like Damezi shouldn't be a contributor off the bench in year 2. Green needs to play like senior guard.  De'Ron needs to play like a healthy senior big man. Justin Smith needs to play like a reliable upperclassman on both ends. A lot of that work in the offseason is personal drive and growth but the coaching staff has a big part in making sure it translates to the basketball court.

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I am happy with the 2 signings but it alone doesn’t change my “wait and see approach”.

I also don’t think these commitments necessarily speak to recruiting momentum, either.

It’s great that we got these guys, who have both dreamed of being Hoosiers for a while.

Both a good/great players. I’m hoping and kind of expecting that getting players that give a damn will make a difference with wins and losses.

This season and 2021 recruiting will tell me everything I need to know. Do we make the tournament? Do we land 2 of Lander, Furst, Kaufman? Those are my benchmarks.

Landing Garcia or Cross in 2020 would be a good statement as both are heavily nationally recruited.


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To your point, kind of where I'm at is that I really, really like the Galloway and Leal commitments. Really happy with those, same as with guys like Franklin and Phinisee. Love those guys and think they'll all have positive impacts on the program, obviously Phinisee already is, and all have the chance to develop into great players. 

But, I think for Archie/IU to build a consistently winning program, you have to put those aforementioned guys around a team of 3-4 guys that are ranked in that 20-50 range (TJD, Hunter, Yogi, Bryant, Zeller, etc.). The UVA, Villanova and even UNC model. A consistent pipeline of borderline McDonald's All-American's surrounded by these lower ranked, but still really skilled and smart role players. The you sprinkle in the occasional Langford. 

I'm on record as an Archie supporter, I think he has the ability to end up being the long-term guy at IU. If I have a recruiting criticism right now it's that he's crushing the Franklin, Phinisee, Leal, Galloway types, but I don't think we're getting enough, yet anyways, of the TJD's, Hunter's and then going back the Yogi's, Bryant's, Creek's, Watford's, etc. The kind of 'star' power guys that stay 2-4 years.

P.S. I hate to make it all about rankings, but it just makes it easier to frame the conversation. 

  

[MoyeNeeded]

1 hour ago, biteoftheapple said:

I too am on the wait and sed list. While both signing were good for the program, neither will carry a load to create sn excellent squad...imo

They are not needed to at this point. You have a So RP, a Fr TJD, a redshirt FR Hunter. It will be on them to create an excellent squad. Leal and Galloway are just pieces to the puzzle. The kind that you must have. 

[MoyeNeeded]

52 minutes ago, BGleas said:

To your point, kind of where I'm at is that I really, really like the Galloway and Leal commitments. Really happy with those, same as with guys like Franklin and Phinisee. Love those guys and think they'll all have positive impacts on the program, obviously Phinisee already is, and all have the chance to develop into great players. 

But, I think for Archie/IU to build a consistently winning program, you have to put those aforementioned guys around a team of 3-4 guys that are ranked in that 20-50 range (TJD, Hunter, Yogi, Bryant, Zeller, etc.). The UVA, Villanova and even UNC model. A consistent pipeline of borderline McDonald's All-American's surrounded by these lower ranked, but still really skilled and smart role players. The you sprinkle in the occasional Langford. 

I'm on record as an Archie supporter, I think he has the ability to end up being the long-term guy at IU. If I have a recruiting criticism right now it's that he's crushing the Franklin, Phinisee, Leal, Galloway types, but I don't think we're getting enough, yet anyways, of the TJD's, Hunter's and then going back the Yogi's, Bryant's, Creek's, Watford's, etc. The kind of 'star' power guys that stay 2-4 years.

P.S. I hate to make it all about rankings, but it just makes it easier to frame the conversation. 

  

Seriously. Recruiting criticisms? Two outta three classes with a 5* player. Hell, CAM has only 3 classes period. A mid-major coach comes in to a program that has lost its luster to most of everyone outside of the state and you are expecting him to be able to load up on top 50 players. Besides, after the top 30 or so, rankings are pure guesswork. Look at the programs that offered or was considering Galloway and Leal. Not like it was bottom feeders.