TOM CREAN FIRED

[biteoftheapple]

it's a forum for discussion. No safe spaces here. This is the thread to discuss Tom Crean's success/failure as a coach. It was made to keep the debate over his time as coach out of game threads, recruiting threads, etc.

Why would people post their opinion if they didn't want people to respond? Whether in agreement or opposition.

It is one thing if you are attempting to be informative and enlightening. But given the topic it is more often perceived as being quite antagonistic.

[HoosierReb01]

If you don't like what's in this thread, do the adult thing, and don't read it. The title is pretty self explanatory.

[JSHoosier]

25 minutes ago, Bittersince87 said:

I don't mind the debate but honestly no one has addressed the fact that we have not passed the sweet sixteen in 8 years. All the arguments are asking us skeptics to base our decision simply through this year alone. This happens each year. One year we were exhausted down the stretch. Another year we had no three point shooters and next year no big man. Last year we needed another year of development. This year we just crossed with a superior team. When's enough? None of the supporters have actually discussed what their limitations are. They blindly just defend, defend, defend.

I've asked a few times when they say enough is enough, and there's never an answer.  My opinion, they never will reach that point because they like him as a person even though "nice guy" isn't part of the job description.

I can't give him a pass for not having shooters or bigs, because he recruited those players and he put those teams together.  Those teams were poorly constructed, very poorly, but it should fall 100% on him because he built those teams that way.  That's part of recruiting.

[ALASKA HOOSIER]

My turn, my turn!

I am very proud of CTC for what he has done this past season. We actually played well last night, but UNC was crazy crazy crazy. Any other night against them, we could have matched up. The stars were aligned for them not to to miss. Oh friggin well.

Here is my take on what to do with coach: I said we needed a final four. Well...after this season...he Flippin earned another year. He earned it. The AD didn't give it to him. With the talent coming in we can get the final four next year for certain. We will win the big ten for certain.

[JSHoosier]

Just now, ALASKA HOOSIER said:

My turn, my turn!

I am very proud of CTC for what he has done this past season. We actually played well last night, but UNC was crazy crazy crazy. Any other night against them, we could have matched up. The stars were aligned for them not to to miss. Oh friggin well.

Here is my take on what to do with coach: I said we needed a final four. Well...after this season...he Flippin earned another year. He earned it. The AD didn't give it to him. With the talent coming in we can get the final four next year for certain. We will win the big ten for certain.

The AD was giving it to him no matter what.  Winless, burning down an orphanage on Christmas Eve, doesn't matter, this AD will always give him another chance.

[jmsgws]

24 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The AD was giving it to him no matter what.  Winless, burning down an orphanage on Christmas Eve, doesn't matter, this AD will always give him another chance.

I don't think you are correct there.  I think Fred Glass wants to succeed as much as every other fan.  However, he also has to manage the entire athletic department.  After the team woke up they had a pretty good year.  There is no reason to let him go.  

I also think that Glass knows Crean is a good coach, and until there is someone obviously better, he is not going to make a move.  

Now if Mr Glass offers an extension this year, my tune will change.  :)

[Old Friend]

We should just start a new thread.  He's not getting fired, and shouldn't.  But...he has to know, as Glass does that now, people are really watching because the pattern is too obvious.   He either starts now to change the pattern..which is "he cannot win consistently" or he doesn't; and if he does?  He should be the coach here. If he doesn't?   Drive a Brinks truck to Boston.   He's earned another year at least, and I think he's earned a year where people just let him do his thing.   He's clearly made changes, so let's see what next season brings and let's see what his recruits look like.  If we're in the 2013-14 position a year from now?   We can have a "Fire Crean" discussion.  For now?  The new thread should be "Crean's Fishbowl and Short Leash."  Only because of his pattern.

[JSHoosier]

29 minutes ago, jmsgws said:

I don't think you are correct there.  I think Fred Glass wants to succeed as much as every other fan.  However, he also has to manage the entire athletic department.  After the team woke up they had a pretty good year.  There is no reason to let him go.  

I also think that Glass knows Crean is a good coach, and until there is someone obviously better, he is not going to make a move.  

Now if Mr Glass offers an extension this year, my tune will change.  :)

I didn't say he should be.  I can see giving him another year after this season, but one year is about it.  His body of work is still what it is.

Obviously I'm not on board with the "Crean's a good coach" wagon.  He did a good coaching job this season, he's done good coaching jobs here or there his entire career.  Sporadic years of good coaching doesn't make a good coach, and there is still a lot of evidence that he's not that good of a coach.  I think he's capable of the occasional good coaching job but pretty mediocre on the whole.

We can't just wait around and hope someone better will be available because the homerun coaches won't be in position where they need a job.  We would have to pursue them and make a real and serious effort to land them knowing we could strike out.

[colonel06]

I know that Fred Glass as well as the trustees like to use the phrase: "the program is trending up" almost as the mantra whether that is for round ball or the football programs.

[8bucks]

We should just start a new thread.  He's not getting fired, and shouldn't.  But...he has to know, as Glass does that now, people are really watching because the pattern is too obvious.   He either starts now to change the pattern..which is "he cannot win consistently" or he doesn't; and if he does?  He should be the coach here. If he doesn't?   Drive a Brinks truck to Boston.   He's earned another year at least, and I think he's earned a year where people just let him do his thing.   He's clearly made changes, so let's see what next season brings and let's see what his recruits look like.  If we're in the 2013-14 position a year from now?   We can have a "Fire Crean" discussion.  For now?  The new thread should be "Crean's Fishbowl and Short Leash."  Only because of his pattern.

Exactly. Keep it going Coach and I am sure you will break through the sweet sixteen again. Consistency is such the key though. I really believe that if we get in the tournament 9 out of 10 years Crean can build teams to make runs IF he continues to get his teams to the tourney wiling to play D and without being dead legs.

[rebelhoosier848891]

I was ready to lead the coaching search at the end of last season and post-Maui and Duke. But--Crean has earned some more time in my book.

He has brought the program back to perennial contender in the Big Ten (2 titles) and 3 sweet 16's in 5 years. The academics are great and we beat more ranked teams than anyone thanks to our tremendous home court advantage.  We are also near the tops each year in many offensive categories and recruiting is solid. He will be chosen for several conference and national coach of the year awards from other coaches and people in the know and it is not clear there is a better alternative at this point willing to take the position. But---most important to me---I saw IMPROVEMENT this year in his coaching especially with all the injuries we had. We are trending up and as long as we see improvement---let's keep moving up. He's earned a couple more seasons in my book to get us to that next elite level with the UNC's and Kansas's of the world. If he can't do it--then we make a change. My 2 cents.

[Uspshoosier]

I don't mind the debate but honestly no one has addressed the fact that we have not passed the sweet sixteen in 8 years. All the arguments are asking us skeptics to base our decision simply through this year alone. This happens each year. One year we were exhausted down the stretch. Another year we had no three point shooters and next year no big man. Last year we needed another year of development. This year we just crossed with a superior team. When's enough? None of the supporters have actually discussed what their limitations are. They blindly just defend, defend, defend.

Hard to believe that the iu program from 1995-2011 only made it to 1 sweet 16 and only time they made it past was in the same year 2002

[8bucks]

Hard to believe that the iu program from 1995-2011 only made it to 1 sweet 16 and only time they made it past was in the same year 2002

Not really. The administration did not give an effort worthy of our potential in the Davis and Sampson hires. When you hire poorly you get the results we have had.

[jmsgws]

3 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

I didn't say he should be.  I can see giving him another year after this season, but one year is about it.  His body of work is still what it is.

Obviously I'm not on board with the "Crean's a good coach" wagon.  He did a good coaching job this season, he's done good coaching jobs here or there his entire career.  Sporadic years of good coaching doesn't make a good coach, and there is still a lot of evidence that he's not that good of a coach.  I think he's capable of the occasional good coaching job but pretty mediocre on the whole.

We can't just wait around and hope someone better will be available because the homerun coaches won't be in position where they need a job.  We would have to pursue them and make a real and serious effort to land them knowing we could strike out.

"Winless, burning down an orphanage on Christmas Eve, doesn't matter, this AD will always give him another chance."    This made me think your belief is that Glass will never get rid of Crean.  

A Good Coach wins Coach of the Year in the B1G.  A good coach brings back a couple of conference championships.  A good coach makes it to the Sweet 16 3 times in five years.  

Crean has the resume to be considered a good coach.  I think we both want a great coach.  I don't think Crean is that coach, but I am a firm believer that "good" is all we are going to get until "great" becomes available.  

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I think 3 sweet 16s in 5 years and 4/5 tournament years is a great start. We had tourney seeds of 1, 4, 5, 10. I believe. We underperformed in 1. Did as expected in 3 based on seeds. Last year we should have been better than a 10 seed. The missed NCAA was brutal and his worst coaching job to date. 2 underperforming years after a great year is the fastest way to sour a fanbase.

The overall body of work over 5 years is pretty solid. Top 15-20 type program.

Still hoping to get to the top 1-10 category. Maybe attainable if our recruiting jumps up a tick.

I'm optimistic right now, but next year could sour me immediately.

Expecting top 3-4 BIG, and another sweet sixteen type team from our roster.

We won't be on the echelon of Duke, Kansas, MSU (going to be interesting squad- see how he handles the young gunslingers) maybe UK, and a few others. Could be next tier type team. That's my expectations.

[MadAboutIndiana]

Landing the right guys in 2017 is key. But who is to say who the right guys will end up being? Hard telling.

[Trish]

Quick update: Made it back to bloomington safely!

As you all know, i'm full Fire Crean. However, last night was not on him. UNC was playin better basketball. period.

 

however, the only knock i will say about crean last night is few adjustments made in the second half. It's hard to beat a team shooting out of their minds. Yet, we still made 13 threes last night. Usually 13's is a win for IU. But we couldn't stop the inside scoring/fouling.

 

We just didn't look interested in the second half. They knew it was over before the second half even started. I feel for Yogi.. one of the great here at IU.

Crean did a pretty decent job this year. I'm okay with him being around next year. Not sure what to expect next season this early.. but crean showed promise. I'll still take Stevens anyday of the week.. but Crean did some great things this past season.

 

Rough game last night. It happens.. If we could land thon maker somehow, with development from tommy,rojo,o.g,collin,etc. We could be right back in the hunt.

It's cubs season folks!

[coonhounds]

Good season as a whole by crean but not great and that is what I want. He earned next year but we better darn good and make a tourney run next year or I am done. Wish we could go back in time and see what would have happened if we had jbj all year. Would crean had sat him to make him learn defense or would he not have done anything and the team not had as good of season as they did? Things we will never know.

[JSHoosier]

2 hours ago, jmsgws said:

"Winless, burning down an orphanage on Christmas Eve, doesn't matter, this AD will always give him another chance."    This made me think your belief is that Glass will never get rid of Crean.  

A Good Coach wins Coach of the Year in the B1G.  A good coach brings back a couple of conference championships.  A good coach makes it to the Sweet 16 3 times in five years.  

Crean has the resume to be considered a good coach.  I think we both want a great coach.  I don't think Crean is that coach, but I am a firm believer that "good" is all we are going to get until "great" becomes available.  

I firmly believe that Glass will never get rid of Crean, I've never alleged otherwise.  I didn't say Crean should be fired right this moment, I think he's earned one more year but I don't think Glass gives a crap as long as the name is Tom Crean.

You're not looking at a full body of work.  You're picking and choosing what sample size you want.  He's been a head coach almost 20 years and has 3 conference titles and made it past the Sweet 16 once.  That's not good.  In you're sample he's also missed the NIT with 2 burger boys and a team he built himself.  As I've said, he's had good coaching years here or there, but there is also plenty of years to the contrary.

You're right, we both want a great coach.  The difference seems to be how we go about getting that coach.  It seems to be you want to wait and hope one comes available, but it won't happen that way because the great coaches, the home run hires we need, will never be without a job.  We have to pursue them and do what it takes to get them, maybe we whiff but maybe we knock it out of the park.

[mdn82]

I firmly believe that Glass will never get rid of Crean, I've never alleged otherwise.  I didn't say Crean should be fired right this moment, I think he's earned one more year but I don't think Glass gives a crap as long as the name is Tom Crean.

You're not looking at a full body of work.  You're picking and choosing what sample size you want.  He's been a head coach almost 20 years and has 3 conference titles and made it past the Sweet 16 once.  That's not good.  In you're sample he's also missed the NIT with 2 burger boys and a team he built himself.  As I've said, he's had good coaching years here or there, but there is also plenty of years to the contrary.

You're right, we both want a great coach.  The difference seems to be how we go about getting that coach.  It seems to be you want to wait and hope one comes available, but it won't happen that way because the great coaches, the home run hires we need, will never be without a job.  We have to pursue them and do what it takes to get them, maybe we whiff but maybe we knock it out of the park.

True he has done that in 20 years. Although a lot of the rhetoric centers on him no being able to improve. Has he not done that over the last 5 years? I don't care what he did 20 years ago if he is improving. He is at this point. The moment the improvement stops he should be gone unless he is at a level not acceptable. 3 conference titles in 20 years. Well 2 were in the last 4 years. Both outright. To act like that is not improving is odd at best.