They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[JSHoosier]

3 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Don't forget Johnson's history of off-court antics... he was a ticking time bomb... and despite that and his and Gallo's inconsistencies, Woodson chose to stand pat. He gets what he gets because he chose it... time to make him accountable.

Yeah, let's not forget that well established history of being a good leader.

[8bucks]

18 minutes ago, Unexpectedflash said:

This whole thread is basically him vs everyone and I’m honestly kind of impressed by the persistence. Singlehandedly helped add at least 5 pages today

I think many are on the fence, like me.  If you objectively think about it, you can make the argument that Woody was close.  We lost last year to a team that went to the FF.  That is something to consider when saying Woody had not done well in the NCAA.  The latter is true but we did not lose to #16 seeds, but to good teams.

Secondly, Woody took a big swing at a Boogie, Queen and Liam class.  It seems we were close on Boogie and still may end up with 2 of the 3.  If he keeps Liam and gets Queen, then adds some guards from the portal then things look promising.  Woody took a big risk going after top 20 kids and while he was close to landing all 3, he did not seem to have relationships established to get to quickly pivot to another PG after boogie chose UK.  So he was close but missing on this strategy could be a big part of him having to move on.  He was also close on bringing in some guards in the portal and by some accounts even said yes to the staff only to later change thier mind.

Third, his style of play did not seem to change this year as he indicated it would.  That frustrates many and is not helping his case.

The lingering questions are can he learn from his mistakes on recruiting?  Many point to his age and say he is not committed to the task required. That could be true.  I remember reading about changes in recruiting that Drew and I think Jay Wright changed strategies as well.  Woody being older may limit his willingness to change but I am not ready to give up all hope yet.

The style of play question is certainly fair but to then just assume he is a bad coach is lazy.  Was he a bad coach when he beat Purdue 3 of 4 times the last couple of years?  TJD was a big part of that but the first year TJD had foul trouble and barely played.  Schifino was the big reason for the win at PU last year and Schif was a guard recruited and developed by Woody's staff.   

Finally, Woody and staff seem to be doing very well at developing bigs.  TJD was already pretty good when he got him but his game took off even more under Woody.  Ware is playing better here than Oregon and Malik is much improved from last year.  

In the end, i think the staff made a few mistakes that may prove fatal.  Not bringing in instant impact guards for this year and shooting for the moon for 2024's class without a backup plan in place is costly now and lessons hope we might have for improvement next year.

I have been saying you have to let it play out and I stand by that.  If we continue to lose games where we are the underdog then we could lose most if not all the remaining games.  If that happens, it could be hard to keep the players we have now and need let alone attracting new talent.  Woody and staff were close to a different result but at his age he may find that it is too hard to dig out of this hole.

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

With a new coach I can buy that.  With Woodson I don't.  We had that NIL money and some questionable guards and he couldn't convince even one guy to come here out of the portal.  Also, I don't want NIL to be the main/only reason guys are coming here.  I think that a team of mercenaries doesn't play well for program stability either.  I want guys who have an interest in being here first with NIL maybe helping tip the balance.

I agree with you, but we have the money. We have to use it wisely. I think we spent it wrong this season and that is we're in the shape were in. 

[AZ Hoosier]

25 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

The circle I am having an issue squaring is that we are basically looking at implementing a year 1 rebuild in year 4 for what will be a 66 year old coach.  Take everything that has happened up to this point and flush the majority of it from a stability standpoint because we are talking about losing Ware, Mgbako, Leal, Walker, Banks, Gunn, and Johnson.  That is 7 of your current 12 scholarship players.  One of the remaining 5 has had the type of injury he may never recover from and we haven't heard anything about his recovery in forever.  So Cupps, Galloway, Reneau, and Sparks are your most likely returning pieces next year and you have 1 incoming Freshman committed.  So we are talking potentially running to the portal or hoping for late decommits for 7 of our scholarships.

That is just personnel.  I think everyone believes we have to overhaul the offense and defense a bit over the summer as well.

That is a complete rebuild.  Keeping Woodson and staff around for year 4 is continuity in name only.  Everything about how this next offseason is shaping up is screaming "total rebuild".  Why should I trust that the guy who led us back to this point in 3 years is in any way, shape, or form equipped to rebuild it?  Furthermore, what is the likelihood of a total rebuild, year one, start over season to end up looking like something that will probably lead to him getting fired anyway?  We are starting over next year no matter who is in the head coaching spot.  

We have all seen this show before.  We will get a bunch of new faces in.  They won't have experience playing with each other.  The "culture" is 4 guys who will be outnumbered by the newcomers so the likelihood of whatever culture we have soaking in next year is next to zero.  What are the odds we are about 14-9 or 14-10 around this point next year talking about getting over humps and hoping our coach gets canned at the end of the year again?  Greater than 50% is my guess.

Dang, son... great post... and asking the hard questions that remain to be answered...

[BleedCubbieBlue]

4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

With a new coach I can buy that.  With Woodson I don't.  We had that NIL money and some questionable guards and he couldn't convince even one guy to come here out of the portal.  Also, I don't want NIL to be the main/only reason guys are coming here.  I think that a team of mercenaries doesn't play well for program stability either.  I want guys who have an interest in being here first with NIL maybe helping tip the balance.

I can't think of anything more stable than A TEAM of mercenaries.

 

[southernindianahoosier2]

3 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I wasn't on BTB then but I was on Peegs. And there was that sentiment but it was from a small minority over there. But sometimes the small minority has the loudest voices, especially over time when they have been proven right. 

I'm biased... I was upset when we extended Crean in 2012 and I took a lot of heat for that take.... My take seems validated now given how everything played out. 

While I love Woodson, and in a Vacuum would be fine with him staying... We have to take into consideration timing, and I'd rather take a risk on May or Shertz, than Woodson for year 4. Let the record show I am all in for moving on at the end of this year.

[CSP]

9 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Don't forget Johnson's history of off-court antics... he was a ticking time bomb... and despite that and his and Gallo's inconsistencies, Woodson chose to stand pat. He gets what he gets because he chose it... time to make him accountable.

I find very little inconsistent with TG. 

[Chris007]

6 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I think many are on the fence, like me.  If you objectively think about it, you can make the argument that Woody was close.  We lost last year to a team that went to the FF.  That is something to consider when saying Woody had not done well in the NCAA.  The latter is true but we did not lose to #16 seeds, but to good teams.

Secondly, Woody took a big swing at a Boogie, Queen and Liam class.  It seems we were close on Boogie and still may end up with 2 of the 3.  If he keeps Liam and gets Queen, then adds some guards from the portal then things look promising.  Woody took a big risk going after top 20 kids and while he was close to landing all 3, he did not seem to have relationships established to get to quickly pivot to another PG after boogie chose UK.  So he was close but missing on this strategy could be a big part of him having to move on.  He was also close on bringing in some guards in the portal and by some accounts even said yes to the staff only to later change thier mind.

Third, his style of play did not seem to change this year as he indicated it would.  That frustrates many and is not helping his case.

The lingering questions are can he learn from his mistakes on recruiting?  Many point to his age and say he is not committed to the task required. That could be true.  I remember reading about changes in recruiting that Drew and I think Jay Wright changed strategies as well.  Woody being older may limit his willingness to change but I am not ready to give up all hope yet.

The style of play question is certainly fair but to then just assume he is a bad coach is lazy.  Was he a bad coach when he beat Purdue 3 of 4 times the last couple of years?  TJD was a big part of that but the first year TJD had foul trouble and barely played.  Schifino was the big reason for the win at PU last year and Schif was a guard recruited and developed by Woody's staff.   

Finally, Woody and staff seem to be doing very well at developing bigs.  TJD was already pretty good when he got him but his game took off even more under Woody.  Ware is playing better here than Oregon and Malik is much improved from last year.  

In the end, i think the staff made a few mistakes that may prove fatal.  Not bringing in instant impact guards for this year and shooting for the moon for 2024's class without a backup plan in place is costly now and lessons hope we might have for improvement next year.

I have been saying you have to let it play out and I stand by that.  If we continue to lose games where we are the underdog then we could lose most if not all the remaining games.  If that happens, it could be hard to keep the players we have now and need let alone attracting new talent.  Woody and staff were close to a different result but at his age he may find that it is too hard to dig out of this hole.

Very good post. Appreciate the level head of this post. I think many are believing the same thing, just frustrated during the week off and venting. 

[southernindianahoosier2]

Also let the record show that I'm a bit extreme and would hire Tom Jurich as my AD, and hire Chris Beard as my coach...

Since probably not possible for either, I'm all in for May, with Schertz a close 2nd.

[Adillac]

Not worried about recruiting at IU with Woody or after Woody. We need a coach with energy, a coach who can change the gameplan, who can pivot and try new things. When I see Woody, I dont see or hear energy or coaching prowess. I just see and hear a tired old guy. 

[AZ Hoosier]

17 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I find very little inconsistent with TG. 

Eleven PPG ... big game v Kansas and @ tOSU... otherwise, not much to write about... should be more of a leader as (co)captain... but not really seeing it...

[IUFAN1976]

11 minutes ago, Adillac said:

Not worried about recruiting at IU with Woody or after Woody. We need a coach with energy, a coach who can change the gameplan, who can pivot and try new things. When I see Woody, I dont see or hear energy or coaching prowess. I just see and hear a tired old guy. 

I think that’s exactly what all of us see!  I’ve often thought that if he showed some fire or emotion on the sideline, especially towards the refs, would we get some of calls more in our favor.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

1 hour ago, Hoozr said:

Long time reader, first time poster. 

Don't let it be your last.  Hope to see you as an active poster.

[Chris007]

I think we can get to page 100 by the next game. Let's Go!!

[JSHoosier]

21 minutes ago, Adillac said:

Not worried about recruiting at IU with Woody or after Woody. We need a coach with energy, a coach who can change the gameplan, who can pivot and try new things. When I see Woody, I dont see or hear energy or coaching prowess. I just see and hear a tired old guy. 

Hill might wake up from his season long nap soon, I'm sure he'd have wonderful advice.

[IUFAN1976]

38 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Don't forget Johnson's history of off-court antics... he was a ticking time bomb... and despite that and his and Gallo's inconsistencies, Woodson chose to stand pat. He gets what he gets because he chose it... time to make him accountable.

Exactly!  You reap what you sow!

[IU_FanClub]

This season has taken a lot out of me but my main opinion is that if we are going to do a rebuild, I would rather start it with the next guy than try to let Woody who is already pretty old start the rebuild. Best case with that is Woody improves us and gets things moving in the right direction and then we have to make a change rather than starting with someone new who can get things going and we keep some continuity. I don't think Woody has the energy for a rebuild or what it takes to really sustain success.

[HoosierTrav]

1 hour ago, Hoozr said:

Long time reader, first time poster. I know it has been said that May has a clause in his contract that he could take IU job (and his buyout is low, relatively speaking). Say he is offered a big time job (U of L, OSU, etc), they would be unlikely to put a clause like that in there and his buyout would likely be enormous for the first few years. If we do move on from Woody after next year, that could be a non-starter for getting him here any time soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is true. And if he insists on having that clause, no one will take a chance on him. As they shouldn’t. 

[ISP]

47 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I think many are on the fence, like me.  If you objectively think about it, you can make the argument that Woody was close.  We lost last year to a team that went to the FF.  That is something to consider when saying Woody had not done well in the NCAA.  The latter is true but we did not lose to #16 seeds, but to good teams.

Secondly, Woody took a big swing at a Boogie, Queen and Liam class.  It seems we were close on Boogie and still may end up with 2 of the 3.  If he keeps Liam and gets Queen, then adds some guards from the portal then things look promising.  Woody took a big risk going after top 20 kids and while he was close to landing all 3, he did not seem to have relationships established to get to quickly pivot to another PG after boogie chose UK.  So he was close but missing on this strategy could be a big part of him having to move on.  He was also close on bringing in some guards in the portal and by some accounts even said yes to the staff only to later change thier mind.

Third, his style of play did not seem to change this year as he indicated it would.  That frustrates many and is not helping his case.

The lingering questions are can he learn from his mistakes on recruiting?  Many point to his age and say he is not committed to the task required. That could be true.  I remember reading about changes in recruiting that Drew and I think Jay Wright changed strategies as well.  Woody being older may limit his willingness to change but I am not ready to give up all hope yet.

The style of play question is certainly fair but to then just assume he is a bad coach is lazy.  Was he a bad coach when he beat Purdue 3 of 4 times the last couple of years?  TJD was a big part of that but the first year TJD had foul trouble and barely played.  Schifino was the big reason for the win at PU last year and Schif was a guard recruited and developed by Woody's staff.   

Finally, Woody and staff seem to be doing very well at developing bigs.  TJD was already pretty good when he got him but his game took off even more under Woody.  Ware is playing better here than Oregon and Malik is much improved from last year.  

In the end, i think the staff made a few mistakes that may prove fatal.  Not bringing in instant impact guards for this year and shooting for the moon for 2024's class without a backup plan in place is costly now and lessons hope we might have for improvement next year.

I have been saying you have to let it play out and I stand by that.  If we continue to lose games where we are the underdog then we could lose most if not all the remaining games.  If that happens, it could be hard to keep the players we have now and need let alone attracting new talent.  Woody and staff were close to a different result but at his age he may find that it is too hard to dig out of this hole.

This is all very on point and even keeled. 

The issue is that the primary reason Woody was brought on was so that you didn't have to deal with these question in year 3 and 4. He was supposed to be a short term program stabilizer or at least that is how it was pitched. But yet here we are, going to be entering year 4 and with even more question than when he started. 

Edited February 13, 2024 by ISP

[IUrocker]

6 minutes ago, IU_FanClub said:

This season has taken a lot out of me but my main opinion is that if we are going to do a rebuild, I would rather start it with the next guy than try to let Woody who is already pretty old start the rebuild. Best case with that is Woody improves us and gets things moving in the right direction and then we have to make a change rather than starting with someone new who can get things going and we keep some continuity. I don't think Woody has the energy for a rebuild or what it takes to really sustain success.

I hope this is how Dolson sees it. Gonna need a handful of new faces for next year anyways, so let’s have the new guy take the reins and plug those pieces in himself to plan for the future.