They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[JerryYeagley23]

42 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Imagine IU last year with Brice Williams and Marcus Domask (two random B10 guard transfers that weren't highly sought after) at the expense of Ware who was a top 5 portal entrant. IU with Domask and Williams wins 23-24 games this year and is comfortably in the tournament. There's a Domask or a Brice Williams every portal cycle, multiple of them. Construct the roster properly this year and go from there. 

Just for the banter because it’s all hypothetical, respectfully I think we might have actually been worse in that scenario. Even with better guards, if we had to rely on MR to be our only big and rim protector with the way he fouls… we were a below average rebounding team WITH Ware. Reneau and Sparks as our front court would have been multiple additional losses even if Domask and Williams took Cupps/Leal’s minutes. I think Ware actually might somehow have been under appreciated because of our season and to some extent splitting post touches with MR. He single-handedly won us a few games IMO. Wish him well in the league and hope he continues to develop. 

[realTomCrean]

If Woody can’t secure Javon Small

[AH1971]

5 minutes ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Just for the banter because it’s all hypothetical, respectfully I think we might have actually been worse in that scenario. Even with better guards, if we had to rely on MR to be our only big and rim protector with the way he fouls… we were a below average rebounding team WITH Ware. Reneau and Sparks as our front court would have been multiple additional losses even if Domask and Williams took Cupps/Leal’s minutes. I think Ware actually might somehow have been under appreciated because of our season and to some extent splitting post touches with MR. He single-handedly won us a few games IMO. Wish him well in the league and hope he continues to develop. 

Not a chance. We were outplayed in the back court by the opposition in 90% of our games this year; including the low majors. Many times significantly. Guards are everything in college basketball.

[JSHoosier]

Just now, AH1971 said:

Guards are everything in college basketball.

The college game is inside out, just ask Mike Woodson.

[Shooter]

6 minutes ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Just for the banter because it’s all hypothetical, respectfully I think we might have actually been worse in that scenario. Even with better guards, if we had to rely on MR to be our only big and rim protector with the way he fouls… we were a below average rebounding team WITH Ware. Reneau and Sparks as our front court would have been multiple additional losses even if Domask and Williams took Cupps/Leal’s minutes. I think Ware actually might somehow have been under appreciated because of our season and to some extent splitting post touches with MR. He single-handedly won us a few games IMO. Wish him well in the league and hope he continues to develop. 

Agree. Of our late five game winning streak, 3 of the 5 were basically Ware putting us on his back like TJD used to.

27 pts, 11 reb, 5 blk on 11-12 FG (1-1 3PT)

26 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 3 blk on 12-16 FG (2-3 3PT)

28 pts, 12 reb, 2 blk on 13-19 FG (1-1 3PT)

Those are first team All American numbers. 

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

The college game is inside out, just ask Mike Woodson.

A lot of teams play “inside out” (see Purdue or UConn last year). It becomes irrelevant if you don’t have competent guard play.

[Chris007]

34 minutes ago, RoncalliHoosier said:

I was being sarcastic. (thus the "/s")

The real kicker is those schools will use their money to supplement recruiting. Woodson will use it to buy a team instead of recruiting.

There's a huge difference between 1-2 players via the portal and 5-7 players. Woodson's way also comes with built-in excuses - new team, young team, still getting to know one another and a whole new hump to get over.

My bad. But we are getting closer to the other schools. Yes we have the built in excuses.

[AH1971]

4 minutes ago, Shooter said:

Agree. Of our late five game winning streak, 3 of the 5 were basically Ware putting us on his back like TJD used to.

27 pts, 11 reb, 5 blk on 11-12 FG (1-1 3PT)

26 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 3 blk on 12-16 FG (2-3 3PT)

28 pts, 12 reb, 2 blk on 13-19 FG (1-1 3PT)

Those are first team All American numbers. 

Imagine not having to rely on a center to put the entire team on his back? It’s a concept that 350 some other teams have figured out except Woodson. So in a hypothetical trade off imagine giving up some rim protection for:

a) perimeter offense

b) perimeter defense 

Remember, “2’s are worth more than 3’s” as a wise coach once said.

This teams three point differential, both scoring and guarding, is literally the story of the season.

 

 

 

[JerryYeagley23]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

Not a chance. We were outplayed in the back court by the opposition in 90% of our games this year; including the low majors. Many times significantly. Guards are everything in college basketball.

Agree it’s a guards game. And to that extent a 3-pt shot game in the modern era. But if we were outplayed in a majority of our games this year, what does that look like with MR and Sparks as our only bigs?? MR gets two early fouls and we play Sparks for 12 minutes in the first half? Wares rim protection alone being 7-ft was the only thing that kept teams from penetrating for layups with ease. Because our perimeter D was brutal at keeping guys in front of them. Again, all hypothetical, but without Ware, I think we win 15 games even upgrading guards. Which really makes the point that Woody needs to find another top-5 big in the portal (ala Ware) AND get two guards like Domask and Williams. Cause we lost Sparks and MR isn’t going to suddenly get quicker feet and stop fouling. Big challenge for Woody this portal. 

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Agree it’s a guards game. And to that extent a 3-pt shot game in the modern era. But if we were outplayed in a majority of our games this year, what does that look like with MR and Sparks as our only bigs?? MR gets two early fouls and we play Sparks for 12 minutes in the first half? Wares rim protection alone being 7-ft was the only thing that kept teams from penetrating for layups with ease. Because our perimeter D was brutal at keeping guys in front of them. Again, all hypothetical, but without Ware, I think we win 15 games even upgrading guards. Which really makes the point that Woody needs to find another top-5 big in the portal (ala Ware) AND get two guards like Domask and Williams. Cause we lost Sparks and MR isn’t going to suddenly get quicker feet and stop fouling. Big challenge for Woody this portal. 

There was a world last year where Woody could have loaded up on guards and still brought in a serviceable 5 who could play better defense than Sparks for 20-25 minutes a game. There’s plenty of good teams without elite rim protection. 

[AH1971]

5 minutes ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Agree it’s a guards game. And to that extent a 3-pt shot game in the modern era. But if we were outplayed in a majority of our games this year, what does that look like with MR and Sparks as our only bigs?? MR gets two early fouls and we play Sparks for 12 minutes in the first half? Wares rim protection alone being 7-ft was the only thing that kept teams from penetrating for layups with ease. Because our perimeter D was brutal at keeping guys in front of them. Again, all hypothetical, but without Ware, I think we win 15 games even upgrading guards. Which really makes the point that Woody needs to find another top-5 big in the portal (ala Ware) AND get two guards like Domask and Williams. Cause we lost Sparks and MR isn’t going to suddenly get quicker feet and stop fouling. Big challenge for Woody this portal. 

We were a bad rebounding team last year, especially defensively, because we gave up a ton of 3 point attempts (which lead to long misses). Having slower guys like Mgbako and Reneau guard out to the 3 point line makes for ineffective rebounding.

[dar007]

J


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[Mopladysman]

5 minutes ago, dar007 said:

J


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Ust fire Mike woodson

[BtownStrength]

6 minutes ago, dar007 said:

J


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I mean I know this board can have some controversial opinions at times but DAMN!

[JerryYeagley23]

16 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

We were a bad rebounding team last year, especially defensively, because we gave up a ton of 3 point attempts (which lead to long misses). Having slower guys like Mgbako and Reneau guard out to the 3 point line makes for ineffective rebounding.

Touché. Fun to think about, although we’re probably in the wrong thread and I don’t want to derail. I guess it all comes back to roster construction and what your basic offensive and defensive philosophies are that you institute. Maybe that’s the unfortunate part in questioning whether we would have been better or worse with different guys/skill sets, because I don’t really know what philosophies we’re committed to or run for the most part. 

[AH1971]

8 minutes ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Touché. Fun to think about, although we’re probably in the wrong thread and I don’t want to derail. I guess it all comes back to roster construction and what your basic offensive and defensive philosophies are that you institute. Maybe that’s the unfortunate part in questioning whether we would have been better or worse with different guys/skill sets, because I don’t really know what philosophies were committed to or run for the most part. 

Totally agree

[Hornsby]

Agree. Of our late five game winning streak, 3 of the 5 were basically Ware putting us on his back like TJD used to.
27 pts, 11 reb, 5 blk on 11-12 FG (1-1 3PT)
26 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 3 blk on 12-16 FG (2-3 3PT)
28 pts, 12 reb, 2 blk on 13-19 FG (1-1 3PT)
Those are first team All American numbers. 

MR is a decent player but he is a foul machine. Losing ware is like losing tjd almost. Trying to replace him is going o be an almost impossible task.

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[IU - Kaulie]

10 hours ago, Hoosier DaDa said:

Noted and sorry Kaulie

It’s no problem lol.

[Kentuckysucks]

14 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

MR is a decent player but he is a foul machine. Losing ware is like losing tjd almost. Trying to replace him is going o be an almost impossible task.

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Yes.  For us to be a top 25 team next year Woody needs 2 elite guards, a solid backup big, and another big almost as good as Trayce or Ware.  And MR and MM back.  

[ib4iu]

33 minutes ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Touché. Fun to think about, although we’re probably in the wrong thread and I don’t want to derail. I guess it all comes back to roster construction and what your basic offensive and defensive philosophies are that you institute. Maybe that’s the unfortunate part in questioning whether we would have been better or worse with different guys/skill sets, because I don’t really know what philosophies we’re committed to or run for the most part. 

I’ll keep it in this thread. Fire Mike Woodson. If our offense were heavy guard oriented, which I would love, I still haven’t seen anything from Mike Woodson that would lead me to believe he would create plays to put them in the best position. He’s commented as much. His offense has always been. Post up and iso. That was Carmelo’s entire game. Just from the wing. That’s as far outside as Woodson knows to coach.