Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[HoosierTrav 7,729]

5 hours ago, mdiu28 said:

Thank you for your info!

Keeping someone employed simply because he is "well liked" is the overall problem we have within our administration. They just don't seem to be able to make the decisions I think they know they need to out of fear it'll hurt someone's feelings. Operating from a place of fear is how other programs overtake you and that's what's been happening at IU. We're weak.

Not saying we need new leadership, but we need new leadership. I'm glad to hear Dolson at least understands the problem, he's just handcuffed and that's what pisses me off. If Scott wants to win (I'm positive he does) and sees a way to get us there (Pearl, May, whomever), he should have the freedom to make that move. That's his job. Why do we even have an AD if they don't trust him to make decisions? 

I really hope keeping him isn't some sort of a year-by-year evaluation. That would be a nightmare. Meaning if he makes the tourney next year, he gets another. And so on. Our admin seems dumb enough to go with something like that.

Exactly. Why have an AD? We have a bunch of academics (aside from Buckner) trying to have ultimate say in who coaches our program’s flagship team. 
 

If you lose the fan support of Men’s Basketball, it will negatively impact the others we are building (and attempting to) into winners (wbb and Football). 
 

This time feels different than past times. I think we are going to see a precipitous drop in fan interest and participation. The base was always split between those ticked off at how things were ran and those who felt it was a string of bad luck that would eventually be corrected. Now, the manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect and incompetency are unmistakably apparent. This will compel long time supporters to distance themselves. I harbor a deep resentment to such individuals in daily interactions, opting to avoid them entirely. Possessing even a modicum of integrity, why would one compromise this fundamental principle by giving them my time and hard earned money?

[Home Jersey 6,545]

6 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

If Quinn is no longer on the Board, can the AD do his job? Or will he still be handcuffed? 

Sadly it seems IMO the cesspool of internal politics at IU is a hereditary trait, considering multiple administrations made up of entirely different individuals have operated in the same way over the past ~25 years+. Appears to be a feature, not a bug, of the IU system. Engrained in the institutional culture you may say. The Board should not interfere with an AD making a sports decision aside from where the usual financial and ethical scrutiny is applied. It seems that is how we operate though. 

Now... that is not to say that the Board has not delivered many good things (it has) from an academic and research perspective. It's just that they should stay focused on that and not stick their nose where it doesn't belong. 

Of course a lot of the blame does not IMO rest on the Board, at least not alone. The mega donors were equally part of this call. 

Make of that, what you will in terms of what it means for our ability to field a competitive basketball team anytime soon. 

[Sardinefarts1991 213]

9 minutes ago, HoosierHuddle said:

Long-time, first time. This is a cool community and I figured I'd start posting...I won't add much, if any, in the way of intelligent conversation but I probably won't anger too many either. To paraphrase, "I gotta lot of thoughts and now, you people are going to hear about them". I am not in a position to hear things that are interesting like Chris007 does or know people (maybe?) like KathywithaC does but I do have information from time to time...typically about football, a program that should have prepared us for having blind hope with no rational expectation for success!

I'm not at all happy Woodson is back, no need to rehash any of the reasons. It's an illogical decision made on the basis of faulty thinking and people in power flexing their privilege to keep a man employed for selfish reasons. The head coach at Indiana University, in any sport, should be a position of merit. Not one kept because of connections to donors and past accomplishments (not as a coach though). That horse has been beaten to death. Moving on...

-Given the extremely large war chest of NIL funds that Mike Woodson and his staff (whoever that may be...I think it's likely all three assistants stay and a recruiting GM type, perhaps a Kenny Payne?, gets added to the staff. Armond Hill might be done, who knows) are being handed by the collectives plus more funds from the Simon family, Indiana will be a very attractive option for guys like Mackenzie Mgbako, Malik Reneau and Trey Galloway. They might not love everything about the system Woodson runs but it does not appear to me that they despise the man and the effort is certainly on the floor right now. If we add a good rim-protecting center that can move and play out of the paint on offense and then pair him with Malik (who really needs to become a better rebounder and stop fouling so much), convince Mgbako to come back and add Liam McNeeley...that's a good start. Find 2-3 difference-making guards with a huge offer of NIL funds and we'd be cooking. My hope would be it would be good enough to get like a 7-seed in the tournament. Maybe we win a round or two and Woody feels good enough about things to "gracefully retire" feeling he has stabilized IU basketball. That's best case scenario, obviously. Much guff will be given about needing to acquire a rim protecting center but if Malik is in the lineup, it's kind of a must. He's not big enough and not a good enough defender or rebounder to play him at center. He'd foul out in 15 minutes per game.

-How does everyone think Woodson will want to handle the non-conference schedule next season? I could see him wanting to rack up 9 or 10 wins in guarantee games instead of making it a really challenging non-conference slate. It'll be a lot of new pieces and I could see him justifying an easy non-conference schedule (we'd have to actually thump those teams to not tank our NET rating this time around) by pointing out all of the new players. I just don't see him wanting to go play a bunch of high-profile games again with the pressure on.

Great post. Love having you here!

In regards to Woody's non conference schedule...I was thinking the same thing.  There's no way he's gonna wanna come out and rack up 3-4 bad losses like he did this year before big ten starts up.  We are absolutely screwed.

[Tom White 1,435]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

With their limited sports background...

You're saying the family that has owned the Pacers for decades has a limited sports background?

[Chris007 43,565]

38 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

If the Simons did pay up Mack may get more here than anywhere else 

Part of the leak supposedly was because Mgbako mom called Woody asking about the rumors if he was going to be there next season. SO that tells me he's coming back

[Home Jersey 6,545]

Just now, Tom White said:

You're saying the family that has owned the Pacers for decades has a limited sports background?

Operating a sports franchise (in the professional entertainment industry, btw) is entirely different from having expertise / background / strong understanding in the strategic aspects of a sport itself. 

[Home Jersey 6,545]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Part of the leak supposedly was because Mgbako mom called Woody asking about the rumors if he was going to be there next season. SO that tells me he's coming back

Mrs. Mgbako is determined to singlehandedly salvage Mike Woodson's IU legacy. Lol

Initiated his recruitment. If he does come back for year 2, she will undoubtedly be one of the main factors in that decision (as will his father). They are the type of family that I could believe the parents saying no to a transfer... you made a commitment... see it out. That is the vibe I get from 2nd and 3rd hand stories of them, no personal experiences with them. Let's hope! 

My gut says 50/50 right now. I will be very pleasantly surprised if he comes back here. I fully expect he will go through the draft process and maybe even enter the portal but end up withdrawing. Who knows. Gonna be an interesting next month!

[Hornsby 1,651]

The combined college coaching record of those three that we "missed out on" by hiring Woody?
32-31
Woody's record since then?
61-39
 
Because Beilein and Stevens have not returned to the college game (a combined 0-0 record), and Matta has been meh at Butler.
If you're gonna constantly (and I mean constantly) be nasty to IU and Woody, at least try to maintain accuracy.

I am talking about Matta before ohio state. How is that not accurate?

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[southernindianahoosier2 902]

On a 1-10 scale, how bad is the decision that was made yesterday for the program.

1 being “ relax this is all part of the Chess that Dolson is playing”

10 being “I wish you step back from that ledge my friend”

[Stuhoo 79,587]

19 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

Matta has been better than meh if you actually watch the improvements he’s made given what he was taking over when he got back to Butler although he wasn’t a real candidate last time.

Yes, Butler has improved in year two with Matta and we were better in year two than year three. 

So your point, if it had been made, would have been well-stated. Whereas @Hornsby stated that we missed out on Stevens, Matta, and Beilein. If that means 20 years ago? Then since Knight left we also missed out on Self, Drew, Pearl, Few, Roy WIlliams, etc., etc. 

We haven't hired a Hall of Fame Coach since RMK left? No s**t.

[Hornsby 1,651]

The combined college coaching record of those three that we "missed out on" by hiring Woody?
32-31
Woody's record since then?
61-39
 
Because Beilein and Stevens have not returned to the college game (a combined 0-0 record), and Matta has been meh at Butler.
If you're gonna constantly (and I mean constantly) be nasty to IU and Woody, at least try to maintain accuracy.

Dude aren't even understanding do I have to spell it out
Beilein instead of Sampson, etc. Geez.

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[HoosierHuddle 221]

4 minutes ago, Sardinefarts1991 said:

In regards to Woody's non conference schedule...I was thinking the same thing.  There's no way he's gonna wanna come out and rack up 3-4 bad losses like he did this year before big ten starts up.  We are absolutely screwed.

I don't know about screwed...I mean, the window for success is barely cracked open and even though IU has as much money as likely any team this offseason is going to be offering it is still going to be a very difficult thing for Woodson and staff to build for 2024-2025. In regards to the schedule though, there is a way to play like two marquee games and don't get obliterated, merely lose by normal margins (I think we play Kansas again next year don't we? Does Kentucky start up?) and then play a bunch of teams that will fall between 100-200 in the NET. The Big 12 did a great job with their scheduling this season. If you play teams in that range and actually handle your business and win by 10-20+ points, you can set up a good NET ranking going into conference play instead of being at 100. You'd give yourself a chance to make the tournament at least.

On a side note, is there a thread to post about and discuss the transfer portal and potential options? I guess that's what our program depends on for now and I watch more collegiate basketball than I probably should so I kinda know of some of the guys we might pursue.

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

For whatever reason we went with X and Galloway and X was never 100%. One good guard and this team makes the tournament and honestly it’s very doable that next years team can make the tournament with the right additions. We will know by May. Some of you have went off the deep end….

[Ryno6284 2,560]

14 minutes ago, HoosierHuddle said:

I also think it was mentioned in vague terms by Eric on the Spaces thing he did last night. He kinda alluded to all three assistants being back but the staff being somewhat different with an addition. I don't know if the term "GM" was used by him and he was not sure what all the role would entail but it would be primarily recruiting based.

Welcome aboard, and don't be a stranger!

[AH1971 1,435]

6 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Mrs. Mgbako is determined to singlehandedly salvage Mike Woodson's IU legacy. Lol

Initiated his recruitment. If he does come back for year 2, she will undoubtedly be one of the main factors in that decision (as will his father). They are the type of family that I could believe the parents saying no to a transfer... you made a commitment... see it out. That is the vibe I get from 2nd and 3rd hand stories of them, no personal experiences with them. Let's hope! 

My gut says 50/50 right now. I will be very pleasantly surprised if he comes back here. I fully expect he will go through the draft process and maybe even enter the portal but end up withdrawing. Who knows. Gonna be an interesting next month!

I don't think Mgbako is going to transfer, better chance of him going pro in my opinion. He's not going to get more money elsewhere if that is what they are after. Now I definitely expect him to declare and go through the NBA draft process as it stands right now, but I think it's 70/30 he comes back to college and if that's the route he chooses I would have to think it's 80/20 he's back at IU. 

[Hornsby 1,651]

I don't think he's alluding to those 3 in the present day:
Matta circa 2003-04
Beilein 2006
Stevens 2011 or 2014-15

I m not yet he attacks me over it as if I was claiming it was all vs woodson.

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[Ryno6284 2,560]

Just now, HoosierHuddle said:

I don't know about screwed...I mean, the window for success is barely cracked open and even though IU has as much money as likely any team this offseason is going to be offering it is still going to be a very difficult thing for Woodson and staff to build for 2024-2025. In regards to the schedule though, there is a way to play like two marquee games and don't get obliterated, merely lose by normal margins (I think we play Kansas again next year don't we? Does Kentucky start up?) and then play a bunch of teams that will fall between 100-200 in the NET. The Big 12 did a great job with their scheduling this season. If you play teams in that range and actually handle your business and win by 10-20+ points, you can set up a good NET ranking going into conference play instead of being at 100. You'd give yourself a chance to make the tournament at least.

On a side note, is there a thread to post about and discuss the transfer portal and potential options? I guess that's what our program depends on for now and I watch more collegiate basketball than I probably should so I kinda know of some of the guys we might pursue.

Yes, there is a portal thread.  Should be one of the top 10 topics.

[Stuhoo 79,587]

9 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

I am talking about Matta before ohio state. How is that not accurate?

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
 

Okay, we haven't had a Hall of Fame Coach since Knight.

 

FWIW, I am absolutely good with you posting new and even more obvious ways to be negative, but geez, it is really tiresome and soul sucking, and I am also okay with me calling you out for it.

Because constantly and solely posting any iteration of negativity over and over (and over and over) is terrible.

And yes, I am aware that I could skip this thread, but people (including me) check these threads for new content and interesting discussion, and to see the same negative posts rehashed this much is soooo unpleasant.

[8bucks 6,345]

16 minutes ago, HoosierHuddle said:

I also think it was mentioned in vague terms by Eric on the Spaces thing he did last night. He kinda alluded to all three assistants being back but the staff being somewhat different with an addition. I don't know if the term "GM" was used by him and he was not sure what all the role would entail but it would be primarily recruiting based.

Wonder if they will add someone officially later but set up some sort of arrangement where they can aggressive contact kids when an official staff member could not. 

[Five Prime 1,076]

I do think we are all overreacting a bit.  This is pretty much status quo IU basketball in the last couple decades.