Game Thread: IU vs FGCU - 11/7 @ 6:30 on BTN

[realTomCrean]

"And, you know, I mean free throws doggone they're free" -Coach Woodson

He's one of us! He's one of us!

[Stuhoo]

Will we play three guards down the stretch of games frequently?

• Who is the opposition?
• How many players on the opposition can hit threes or burst past perimeter defenders?

[HoosierTrav]

1 hour ago, AKHoosier said:

I didn't watch the first half. 

Why did Mgbako get yanked for the 2nd half? I assume it was due to defensive lapses. 

Bc he has no idea what he’s doing on defense. We will find out Woody’s developmental chops more with Mbako than any other player he’s had. If by Feb/Mar, he’s solid defensively, Woody can stick a huge feather in his cap. Show the film from this game vs the end of year to every aspiring NBA player. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Was not able to watch last night but how does Malik come away with one rebound in 31 minutes? Looked like he gave up a decent number of offensive rebounds in the game highlights.

[Hoosier DaDa]

2 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

If you are a X fan last year you argue that X being out coat them a chance at a B1G title and going further into the tourney because you lost a 5th year senior with a ton of college basketball experience, best on ball defender and only player on offense with blow by speed 

if you are not a X fan you argue that with him going down forced Woodys hand to play JHS more and if X wasn’t hurt the ball isn’t in JHS hands as much which probably means no first round pick for JHS 

I think if X doesn't get injured then JHS would be here this year.  

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, IU - Kaulie said:

Not a lot of people will like this but this is about winning games.  Our best lineup does not include Mgbako.  Their will be times based on matchups things will change but I think CMW and the staff found some very important things out last night.

Not surprisingly, I couldn't disagree with you more. This is one game, Bako is an elite 5-star scorer, he'll get the D figured out. Gallo had a horrible opening game, you of course don't judge a guy on one game, and we know what Gallo can do, and that Gallo showed up in this game. Bako will start, and he should.

[HoosierHoopster]

58 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

Bc he has no idea what he’s doing on defense. We will find out Woody’s developmental chops more with Mbako than any other player he’s had. If by Feb/Mar, he’s solid defensively, Woody can stick a huge feather in his cap. Show the film from this game vs the end of year to every aspiring NBA player. 

There is some (not a great deal, some) comparison to a frosh Watford. He was criticized by some posters (HSN) as "soft," some idiot insisted on calling him "Cookies," because he couldn't finish in traffic at the rim and couldn't defend well on the perimeter. Look how that worked out. Crean wasn't a great x's and o's coach, but he/his staff developed players well. Wat became a strong defender, often defended across the floor including guards, etc. He was a '4' but clearly a scorer 'on the wing' / perimeter.

I see Bako as a guy who will be a "college wing" when he gets the defensive schemes and positioning down. End of the day it doesn't really matter what label we put on him, other than the typical board back and forth, but this guy is an elite shooter / scorer, absolutely should be and will start.
 

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, mamasa said:

One thing that really stood out to me was watching Ware's eyes. Always trying to anticipate. A lot of big men just kind of jump and swat, but Ware seems to know when and where to time the block.

The Ware we hoped we were getting is looking like he's hitting the ground running. With CMW pushing his effort level on both ends and with his own recognition of what went wrong for him at Oregon .... Lots of reason for optimism, and I remember (IIRC) he scored close to 20 against MSU last year, and almost had a double double. Talent is all there.

[HoosierHoopster]

17 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

I agree, the only issue is time isn't on his/our side!  

 

[HoosierX]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Was not able to watch last night but how does Malik come away with one rebound in 31 minutes? Looked like he gave up a decent number of offensive rebounds in the game highlights.

There was one play towards the end of the game where he put absolutely no effort into boxing his man out. I noticed it myself but one of the announcers called it out as well.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

12 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

There was one play towards the end of the game where he put absolutely no effort into boxing his man out. I noticed it myself but one of the announcers called it out as well.

Most of the team seems to not block out and rely on their size. Drives me nuts.  We could be dominant on the boards. 

[HoosierTrav]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

There is some (not a great deal, some) comparison to a frosh Watford. He was criticized by some posters (HSN) as "soft," some idiot insisted on calling him "Cookies," because he couldn't finish in traffic at the rim and couldn't defend well on the perimeter. Look how that worked out. Crean wasn't a great x's and o's coach, but he/his staff developed players well. Wat became a strong defender, often defended across the floor including guards, etc. He was a '4' but clearly a scorer 'on the wing' / perimeter.

I see Bako as a guy who will be a "college wing" when he gets the defensive schemes and positioning down. End of the day it doesn't really matter what label we put on him, other than the typical board back and forth, but this guy is an elite shooter / scorer, absolutely should be and will start.
 

I don’t disagree with any of this. I love that Wopdy called him out by name in the presser. Means it’s going to be addressed and he’s going to be challenged to be better. Contrary to what many believe, you have to be able to guard in the NBA. 

[SamIam]

Alright, completed my rewatch and I have a good amount of notes. Feel free to let me know what ya think! 

I have no idea why Banks didn't play more. I don't think it was a minutes restriction, cause Woody called him out postgame.  He only played 2 mins, and was where he was supposed to be on defense. When FGCU scored while Banks was in, it was Walker who was out of position, but Walker played 13 mins.  I will say this till I am blue in the face but he needs to play. If we are committed to these defensive changes this year, he is the player that most fits. On offense, he wasn't really in the swing of things but he played 2 mins so thats to be expected. 

Speaking of Walker, a lot of people wondered why Woody went after him, and those people were vindicated last night. Terrible game from him on both sides. Obviously it's one game, but it is very glaring on tape.  Not giving up on him, but we need to see more of what we saw in the exhibitions. 

Reneau has a VERY obvious chicken wing that will get called eventually, but his right hand is improved. He also has a bit of a jab step he uses that is basically 50-50 on whether it will be called a travel.  

Looks like this team is going to switch basically everything on the weak side, and in general they are being told to switch 1-4. This, to me, is the major difference defensively from last year. There is also a lot of weak side help from the high PnR which got us caught out on so many threes. Its designed to trap a ball handler and force a risky pass which would be ill-advised against our length. This defense takes a ton of communication and athleticism. I believe we have the guys to play it, and it would definitely help getting us in transition. The problem right now is the wings don't know how to play it.  Walker, Gunn were out of position a ton, Reneau knows where he is supposed to be but definitely got caught over-helping and just didn't have the speed. This should improve but Gunn looked like he didn't know what he was doing, and Walker was way overcompensating trying to be everyone's help. Mgbako just got lost ball-watching. Not sure what to make of that. 

One of the things you notice when Cupps is in the game in the three guard set is that they switch way less. It's a combo of Gabe being tenacious at sensing/getting through screens, and I think the team has been told not to switch all the time with him because it could create a real size mismatch. Once the team got back to what they were comfortable with the defense picked up. Beyond that, Cupps just has a feel for where hes supposed to be on both sides, and I've been SUPER impressed with his lateral quickness. 

On offense there was always a wing open off the PnR. The rolling big in the high post needs to make that pass, and the wing needs to knock it down. Woodson clearly still prefers an open long two to a closeout three, they all fake and step into long 2s.  Gunn might not be paying attention to the defensive lessons but he definitely listened to that one. Dude jumps as high as he can on every three, someone needs to tell him a half-hearted closeout presents no danger to his jumper, just let the 3 fly. 

We've all been saying this forever but this team needs to play small at times. Its hard because Reneau is our best scorer right now, and he probably isn't a solution at the 5 due to lack of rim protection, but we need to see a lineup of Ware, Mgbako, Banks, Gallo, and X. What we lose in offense will be picked up by Mgbako actually being able to expose slower 4s and X and Gallo having space to get downhill. Reneau would be better served in that lineup (at the 5) too. Just like TJD, he is drop stepping right into Ware's defender because Woodson insists on leaving the 4 in the dunker position on the other block. Lastly, that lineup has the speed and length at the 3 and 4 to get in passing lanes on the back end and play the defense Woodson wants this year. 

Overall, they still played well defensively despite a ton of glaring miscommunications. I expect this to improve over the season and I think IU will be an elite defensive team. Offensively, this is the same old IU team. To maximize X, Gallo, Mgbako, and Ware there needs to be proper spacing. Until Woody is willing to sacrifice some minutes with 2 bigs, we will continue to see a disjointed and ugly offense that emphasizes posting up with 2 bigs, and faking the three to step into a long 2.  We had a top 50 offense doing that last year, but there just isn't as much upside with it. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

re:samlam

re:banks

I want to love him. I think he has very strong potential but the game was too tight and unfortunately Banks didn't look comfortable in his 2-3 minutes to warrant more time.  I think Woodson was smart to shorten the bench like he did, we could have lost this game if we didn't lock in and get serious about playing defense.  We still almost coughed it up.  Its and feel and a look and I agree with Woodson, Banks didn't have that last night.  

The Overhelping/not closing out/nail/slot/rim defense might drive me to the madhouse.  The announcers kept pointing out that the open looks were coming off 1-2 passes and nothing special.  Tony Adragna diagnosed a few to explain what they were doing to get open looks.  Anyway, This has been a consistent theme for Woodson's teams and this isn't going to be the last time we get burned from wide open 3 balls.  Staff really needs to get this figured out within their system if they are going to stick with it.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Gabe Cupps is what you get when you try to clone Ryan Arcidiacono and Collin Gillespie.

[Hoosier987]

Look at the +\-  below and FG% below of bottom 3. Certainly not shocked. I plead for Banks or anyone of these 3 to prove me wrong. I just don’t see it. Don’t think he’s going to be the player we want him to be. And the Walker transfer…
We needed a guard/scorer…he doesn’t bring either except for length which we already have. Offense looked awful last night against a team missing their best player but that’s a product of our personnel. Hope it gets better and Banks and Gunn would certainly be the ones to make a difference but nothing I’ve seen in these first 3 games leads me to believe a significant sophomore leap is in the cards…if ever. I fear scoring droughts/3 point shooting will be a constant theme more often than not…against quality opponents…much like we’ve seen for the last several years. Rinse and repeat….and cut the mass substitutions. Banks/Gunn/Walker on the court together screams scoring drought much like we saw yesterday. Mgbako gives me hope though. 
 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

43 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

re:samlam

re:banks

I want to love him. I think he has very strong potential but the game was too tight and unfortunately Banks didn't look comfortable in his 2-3 minutes to warrant more time.  I think Woodson was smart to shorten the bench like he did, we could have lost this game if we didn't lock in and get serious about playing defense.  We still almost coughed it up.  Its and feel and a look and I agree with Woodson, Banks didn't have that last night.  

The Overhelping/not closing out/nail/slot/rim defense might drive me to the madhouse.  The announcers kept pointing out that the open looks were coming off 1-2 passes and nothing special.  Tony Adragna diagnosed a few to explain what they were doing to get open looks.  Anyway, This has been a consistent theme for Woodson's teams and this isn't going to be the last time we get burned from wide open 3 balls.  Staff really needs to get this figured out within their system if they are going to stick with it.  

It's a system that worked great 30 years ago because teams weren't shooting a bunch of 3s.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

44 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

re:samlam

re:banks

I want to love him. I think he has very strong potential but the game was too tight and unfortunately Banks didn't look comfortable in his 2-3 minutes to warrant more time.  I think Woodson was smart to shorten the bench like he did, we could have lost this game if we didn't lock in and get serious about playing defense.  We still almost coughed it up.  Its and feel and a look and I agree with Woodson, Banks didn't have that last night.  

The Overhelping/not closing out/nail/slot/rim defense might drive me to the madhouse.  The announcers kept pointing out that the open looks were coming off 1-2 passes and nothing special.  Tony Adragna diagnosed a few to explain what they were doing to get open looks.  Anyway, This has been a consistent theme for Woodson's teams and this isn't going to be the last time we get burned from wide open 3 balls.  Staff really needs to get this figured out within their system if they are going to stick with it.  

I thought it was pretty ballsy of Woodson to sit Mgbako but glad he did. You don't see that kind of thing happen anymore. Biggest thing, Mgbako was still engaged in the game even from the bench and that's awesome. He's a kid that's going to figure it out. He's going to have his good and bad nights. I think Banks is in the same boat. Lots of talent but needs that's coaching and discipline.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

16 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Look at the +\-  below and FG% below of bottoms 3. Certainly not shocked. I plead for Banks to prove me wrong. I just don’t see it with him. Don’t think he’s going to be the player we want him to be. And the Walker transfer…
We needed a guard/scorer…he doesn’t bring either except for length which we already have. Offense looked awful last night against a team missing their best player but that’s a product of our personnel. Hope it gets better and Banks and Gunn would certainly be the ones to make a difference but nothing I’ve seen in these first 3 games leads me to believe a significant sophomore leap is in the cards…if ever. I fear scoring droughts/3 point shooting will be a constant theme more often than not…against quality opponents…much like we’ve seen for the last several years. Rinse and repeat….and cut the mass substitutions. Banks/Gunn/Walker on the court together screams scoring drought much like we saw yesterday. Mgbako gives me hope though. 
 

The funny thing is Cupps and Mgbako put up nearly identical statlines, including on;y a 5 point difference in +/-.  One is being heralded as the greatest thing and the other is being whatever you want to call it.  

Cupps closed because he was accountable and moved the ball, played active smart defense and the COACH trusted him to do the things necessary to win.  We need Mgbako to be better and he will be.  He's really good.  He LOOKS like a pro.  Once these guys figure out how to work together that is when the magic will happen.  The ball sticks too much right now and guys are trying to get theirs a little bit.  Galloway made plays by moving off the ball.  We need the team to be making instict plays and looking for each other.  Don't pass the ball because you are stuck or because the coach wants you to.  Pass the ball to attack the defense and score the rock.  

[Hoosier987]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

The funny thing is Cupps and Mgbako put up nearly identical statlines, including on;y a 5 point difference in +/-.  One is being heralded as the greatest thing and the other is being whatever you want to call it.  

Cupps closed because he was accountable and moved the ball, played active smart defense and the COACH trusted him to do the things necessary to win.  We need Mgbako to be better and he will be.  He's really good.  He LOOKS like a pro.  Once these guys figure out how to work together that is when the magic will happen.  The ball sticks too much right now and guys are trying to get theirs a little bit.  Galloway made plays by moving off the ball.  We need the team to be making instict plays and looking for each other.  Don't pass the ball because you are stuck or because the coach wants you to.  Pass the ball to attack the defense and score the rock.  

Agreed. Mgbako really holds the key. He has the potential to win games single handily for us and I suspect he will at some point here.