How to fix the Big 10 and its constant failure during March Madness

[Uspshoosier]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

Our entire league played 13 games and only had 3 players foul out and only a few more that even had 4 fouls and the other leagues we played against out fouled the bigten 17-14 avg per game.

our players are not aggressive/active enough

all that other stuff is just stuff the other leagues use to negative recruit with and our own fans run with it. 

Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not the league has a reputation of being tackle basketball and because of it other conferences negative recruit B1G schools because of it.     It’s not necessarily about fouling out or not it’s more about freedom of movement seems to be enforced more on drivers in other conferences.   Anyone can see other conferences are just as physical down low.  The high end wing and guard  talent is going to the SEC, Big 12,  ACC  and others and a big reason why is because of the reputation the B1G has gained over the years.    Tennessee is just as physical as any B1G team but at the end of the day B1G teams are suffering from lack of wing and guard talent.    Plenty of other reasons the B1G struggles but this is a big one 

[MikeRoberts]

4 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not the league has a reputation of being tackle basketball and because of it other conferences negative recruit B1G schools because of it.     It’s not necessarily about fouling out or not it’s more about freedom of movement seems to be enforced more on drivers in other conferences.   Anyone can see other conferences are just as physical down low.  The high end wing and guard  talent is going to the SEC, Big 12,  ACC  and others and a big reason why is because of the reputation the B1G has gained over the years.    Tennessee is just as physical as any B1G team but at the end of the day B1G teams are suffering from lack of wing and guard talent.    Plenty of other reasons the B1G struggles but this is a big one 

The reputation is false but exists because fans and people repeat it like it’s a fact. Bigten doesn’t allow anymore than any other league. A wing has every bit the opportunity in the bigten as another league. It comes down to as Stu said, what types of players the bigten recruits and gets.

[Hovadipo]

3 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

The reputation is false but exists because fans and people repeat it like it’s a fact.

The reputation exists among college coaches because fans keep saying it? Not buying that.

[Banksyrules]

I've seen the recruiting process at UNC and Duke first hand. They definitely use the big tens style of play against them. I won't name names but I've seen coaches load up a video of big ten players hacking drivers and post players and said "you don't want  to go to a team that plays in a conference that doesn't allow you to show your game". Take that information for whatever that's worth. 

[Uspshoosier]

32 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

The reputation is false but exists because fans and people repeat it like it’s a fact. Bigten doesn’t allow anymore than any other league. A wing has every bit the opportunity in the bigten as another league. It comes down to as Stu said, what types of players the bigten recruits and gets.

Doesn’t matter who repeats it. Other leagues coaches are using it in recruiting.   B1G is recruiting the same players as the other leagues but the kids are decommitting  from B1G schools or they are just not going to B1G schools.   It’s an  uphill battle in recruiting.   Clowney was a major target for IU.  Barely a top 100 kid that blew up but it was one of IU’s main targets that they went all out for.   For Bama he was probably 4 on the target list.  Style of play and playing in the Sec was a main reason he stayed in the south.   People can believe it  or not it doesn’t really matter what we think.  It all comes down to results and the results say B1G can’t pull in top end talent year in and year out.   Why is it that a top 2 conference by the metrics and has the biggest tv deal can’t consistently bring in the top tier talent 

[Lebowski]

10 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

By reffing the game like the other major conferences do instead of reffing it like it’s an extension of the B1G football season. Top recruits by and large don’t want to play in the B1G because of the style. 

Arizona game this year. 

 

[OliviaPope40]

Don't know how much the tournament helps. 

[MikeRoberts]

9 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Arizona game this year. 

 

This is important - style of play yes, way bigten games are officiated, no. Those are two very different things.

bigten players do not bang and hack anymore than the other leagues, that is a fact. I have done this analysis in big East challenge, acc challenge, NCAA tournament and fouls/officiating differences are not the issue and in fact could be argued the other way that the other leagues are more so than the bigten.

 

perception matters but this is not a reality no matter how many coaches and fans say it is

[Lebowski]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

This is important - style of play yes, way bigten games are officiated, no. Those are two very different things.

bigten players do not bang and hack anymore than the other leagues, that is a fact. I have done this analysis in big East challenge, acc challenge, NCAA tournament and fouls/officiating differences are not the issue and in fact could be argued the other way that the other leagues are more so than the bigten.

 

perception matters but this is not a reality no matter how many coaches and fans say it is

My perception that night against Arizona was the game was officiated completely different then the three previous games IUBB played. Officials do indeed change the complexion of a game and that night was a prime example. Thus causing me to tweet a receipt for this very conversation. 

But I do understand what you're saying here and somewhat agree with it. It's possible there could be multiple reasons why the conference suffers year after year in the NCAA tournament. It's been going on for decades now. Trying to figure out what's been consistent for those decades and changing that is what matters here. I don't think there's a silver bullet but I do think there's a starting point to address (officiating). In my opinion, it will change how teams are recruited and completely overhaul programs.

[Stuhoo]

IMO, the way to win in the B1G is to run counter-narrative. And I think that Mike Woodson is enough of a visionary to do exactly that. 

What do I mean by that? I just started a "Style of Play" thread with my thoughts, and I welcome all to weigh in:

 

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, Banksyrules said:

I've seen the recruiting process at UNC and Duke first hand. They definitely use the big tens style of play against them. I won't name names but I've seen coaches load up a video of big ten players hacking drivers and post players and said "you don't want  to go to a team that plays in a conference that doesn't allow you to show your game". Take that information for whatever that's worth. 

I could probably do the same thing with the ACC, SEC and others.  Just selectively edit a few games.  And I don't even work for the news media. :) 

[Banksyrules]

44 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

I could probably do the same thing with the ACC, SEC and others.  Just selectively edit a few games.  And I don't even work for the news media. :) 

I mean you can but if I were the kid I'd look into the conference and realize how bad we are. ACC and SEC  pale in comparison. 

[RaceToTheTop]

Seth Davis and Jay Wright both addressed the issue with big ten play not translating to tourney success.  I’ll take their word for it.

[go iu bb]

6 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Seth Davis and Jay Wright both addressed the issue with big ten play not translating to tourney success.  I’ll take their word for it.

Which aspects of the play did they say were the biggest problems?

[RaceToTheTop]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:34 PM, go iu bb said:

Which aspects of the play did they say were the biggest problems?

Specifically the plodding style of play that doesn’t translate to the tournament.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Listened to Hoosier Hysterics, I think it was. Anyway they were talking about Jay Wright discussing our offense and other coaches saying Indiana is the easiest scout in the B1G.

We, Indiana, might want to start there.


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[HoosierAloha]

20 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Listened to Hoosier Hysterics, I think it was. Anyway they were talking about Jay Wright discussing our offense and other coaches saying Indiana is the easiest scout in the B1G.

We, Indiana, might want to start there.


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Even more evidence why TJD was awesome. We're the easiest scout and he had the highest usage but still had an incredible % and stats.

[RaceToTheTop]

To be fair, Purdue won the Big and they are an easier scout than IU.  Not exactly a secret what they were going to do and it became pretty evident what you had to do to beat them. 
 

I’m sure that the preference for IU was not to have to rely on TJD as much as they did.  But that depends on some moving parts that didn’t pan out.

[HoosierX]

23 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Even more evidence why TJD was awesome. We're the easiest scout and he had the highest usage but still had an incredible % and stats.

And really speaks to his improvement as a passer.

[MikeRoberts]

1 hour ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Specifically the plodding style of play that doesn’t translate to the tournament.

I think we all agree on this. That is different than the bully ball/bigten officiating part though