IU Basketball News and Notes

[cthomas 6,878]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I hear you. Cig has certainly brought a great deal of fresh air to a program that was just crap for many years (though worth remembering IU did go to the Rose Bowl once, I’m sure you remember). 
I’m a IU bball lifer. When you grow up watching 3 NC teams, the last while you were at IU, and even roughly a decade after of IU as the cream of men’s basketball, that’s your compass. It’s great that IU is suddenly winning in football over 2 seasons but that doesn’t change the landscape for me. Our AD picked DeVries with the same approach Cig was picked. I expect we’ll see IU winning again pretty soon, and with that cones the spotlight, the uptick in recruiting, the uptick in portal and blam IU will quickly be “back” imo.
That Bilas is already out there saying DeVries was one of the top hires speaks volumes. The negativity has been around for a long time, a lot of ut was deserved with the crap Miller and then Woody put on the floor, but a lot of it started with the whole RMK firing fallout, and that just is what it is. I think with an actual bball mind, the first since Sampson, things will trend positive soon

I hope you are right. I started watching IU basketball in the McCracken years with Jimmy Rayl and those guys. Then the VanArsdale years were great. I saw the entire Coach Knight tenure. I think Coach DeVries has a chance to be the "guy". It's going to take me a while to get my enthusiasm back for IU basketball. For now, I'm enjoying the hell out the Cig era.

[Pagoda 6,709]

I've never been happier with IU athletics, at least in the modern era -- let's call that after the late 90's so we don't debate old eras that were different.

Are we a BB or FB school?  Doesn't really matter.  I'd say BB, that's still what we know best.  Can FB be the dominate focus at a BB school?  Yes.  CFB is 4-5x bigger than CBB.  IU fans fundamentally love FB like the whole country does, so when IUFB is good it's very easy to get very into CFB and the magnitude of the games and the huge gameday experiences.  

As long as IUFB is a ranked program in the playoff mix (I know we're a bit more than that right now!), it's going take fan attention away from MBB until the IUFB season ends.  But the trade off is worth it.  CFB makes basically all the money and creates the most exposure, and if you want to be a relevant school in college sports it's 95% down to your CFB program.  And IUBB will have enough support to get by.

I'm pretty pleased with what's happening with MBB.  Okay, first off, Scott and IU have somehow turned our football program into a good one that competes with programs that have 2x our resources.  Absolutely amazing.  Literally.  And to do that, IU is putting a lot more into the IUFB staff and donors are putting more into FB NIL.

Now, despite doing all that, work is still being done on MBB.  It's pretty clear there was a political struggle, and when he could, Scott fired Woody's sorry behind midseason(!) and paid him a $6.5M lump sum to get out (that was the negotiated buyout).  Then he selected CDD and paid a $6M buyout to cryin' West Virginia to get him.  He's paying CDD 5th most in the conference and he gave CDD a top-5 or 10 staff budget (definitely tops the conference) and ~$10M for players (#10-20 in the country).  That's enough to build a strong program.  This is serious effort on MBB, especially given what's happening across the parking lot in the most important college sport.

Of course the jury is still out on CDD.  I'm not sure how well he'll do here.  And some of our fans more interested in MBB may want more resources poured into MBB and a faster turnaround.  But, with CFB being the dominant sport and IU still being a fairly small athletic department in the P4, that's unlikely.

What I see right now with our MBB program is our AD appears to be more in control, it's been given legit resources, and the new coach appears to be good at coaching.  This could work, not sure I can ask for more than that.  Fixing 30 years of mediocrity and four recent years of serious Woody damage is going to take two to three years.  I get some don't like that timeline, but rebuilding any sort of organization, be it a company or a sports program, takes a few years 99% of the time.

The last 30 years of IU athletics have stunk and I complained a lot and often grew apathetic.  I don't know the future, I'm sure there will be ups and downs, but overall I see an athletic dept being run pretty darn well.  I don’t want to be someone never happy with IU sports, so my approach here is I may as well enjoy this and hopefully it lasts a long time.

[str8baller 8,305]

10 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Knight coming back and TJDs final year came after woody got started.  There was excitement for an IU legend returning to campus as Ill founded as that was 

I don’t remember any excitement when Woody was hired. Last year  I went back through the thread on here from when he was hired. “Excitement “ is definitely not the term I would use. I do remember a lot of crowing about Archie when he was hired.  
 

In any event, it isn’t about one single person. IU is just currently a trash program from a results standpoint that’s an accumulation of 25 years of crap. I think some of us on here are blind to it because we watch anyways. I seriously doubt any supposed “blue blood” in any sport has went through a 25 yr run as bad as IU basketball. Reading online the other day I saw an Arizona fan joke about how perpetually “disappointing “ their program is—they haven’t been to a FF in almost 25 yrs. And all I could think to myself is “buddy, you have no idea…”

[str8baller 8,305]

8 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The bball program remains a slesping giant. It wasn’t that long ago that Obama was picking IU to win it all on national tv, Cody and Vic were huge, and a mediocre coach in Crean had the U with the nation’s longest #1 ranking.

That was over a decade ago. 
 

Also, I have to say that our high point in the last 25 yrs being the one time we were ranked #1, a celebrity picked us to win the tourney, and we flamed out in the S16 is kind of sad. That would be something a school like Nebraska or Florida St would look back fondly on. Schools like UConn, Duke, UK, etc…would consider that a low-light. 
 

I don’t know what we are, but it’s hard to make the case we’re a basketball school. I kind of think we nominally are based on facilities/budget, etc… but I am not sure that’s even the case. We’re pouring a ton of money into football. If Cig and CDD get into a battle of resources, I am not sure wins out. I think probably Cig, which is a notion that would’ve been laughable 5-10yrs ago. 

[Uspshoosier 55,350]

21 minutes ago, str8baller said:

but it’s hard to make the case we’re a basketball school

Still leading the B1G in attendance the last couple years and top 6 nationally despite being a middle of the pack B1G team on the court and no tournament success shows me  IU is still a basketball  school. Either way,  call it a football school or basketball school but the outside perception will be IU is a basketball school.   During their football games, announcers go out of their way to bring up the basketball history.  For me IU will always be a basketball school first (shocker I know) 

[Pagoda 6,709]

Just my opinion, but in terms of analogies, I’d say IUBB is more like a dilapidated abandoned mansion or awesome sports car that has been left in a barn for 30 years.  There is still something unique and great here, but a lot of difficult restoration work is needed.  And probably some modern upgrades.

[HoosierHoopster 9,463]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

That was over a decade ago. 
 

Also, I have to say that our high point in the last 25 yrs being the one time we were ranked #1, a celebrity picked us to win the tourney, and we flamed out in the S16 is kind of sad. That would be something a school like Nebraska or Florida St would look back fondly on. Schools like UConn, Duke, UK, etc…would consider that a low-light. 
 

I don’t know what we are, but it’s hard to make the case we’re a basketball school. I kind of think we nominally are based on facilities/budget, etc… but I am not sure that’s even the case. We’re pouring a ton of money into football. If Cig and CDD get into a battle of resources, I am not sure wins out. I think probably Cig, which is a notion that would’ve been laughable 5-10yrs ago. 

Bad rear view read from imo. We won Big 10 championships under Crean, had 3 SW16’s and multiple future NBA players, the program was in good shape it just wasn’t consistently at the level where it could contend at a FF level team so the U canned Crean in favor of a terrible coach in Miller, mistake #1. 
Of course it was a decade plus ago we just suffered through 8 years of Miller and Woodson. But immediately before Sampsongate we were 24-4 and clearly dominant - why? Because we had a great coach (basketball not ethics). That’s the point. Cig and Dev won’t be battling for resources, not happening. It’s so easy to wallow in the wake of Miller/Woodson, but that era is over.
There’s every reason to believe the bball program will he dominant again with the right coach and staff. I think we just may finally have that again. 

[Home Jersey 17,841]

Basketball may be good, even great, again under DDV. 

But will they be so great they outshine IUFB, about to go 2/2 on CFP appearances under Cig?

Very possibly the first undefeated season... Stadium renovations/expansion being talked about more and more. 

For the AD to grow, football needs to succeed. It's more important than bball success, flat out. 

I wonder how often they will talk about the football team during basketball games this year. Plenty probably. 

Won't be surprised if they talk about basketball less and less during football games unless we turn it around fast. 

Totally fine by me... and I'd bet Cig too. Changing the way people think around here and what not. 

I prefer basketball to football on a personal level. But IUFB is way more fun to root for and follow right now. 

I buy that IUBB is a sleeping giant.

But I don't think it's going to overtake the momentum football has built without huge, nearly immediate success. 

1. Historically a basketball school.
2. Currently a football school.
3. Potentially an "everything" school if IUBB gets it figured out. 

If the basketball program starts to wake up, this is a good "problem" to have. And money will flow. 

[Home Jersey 17,841]

41 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

That’s the point. Cig and Dev won’t be battling for resources, not happening. It’s so easy to wallow in the wake of Miller/Woodson, but that era is over.

How do you figure Cig and DDV won't be "battling for resources" ?

I think every coach in every sport at every school is battling for resources within their department. 

And given the player payroll for football and basketball... with a finite amount of money... choices will need to be made. 

This is not wallowing in the wake of Miller/Woodson but acknowledging a reality IMO. 

Some would say that we were not the highest bidder for our 3 top HS targets, the battle for resources has a clear winner already.

Hopefully DDV can bring the success we all want to see for IUBB. 

[Pagoda 6,709]

As an aside on this FB vs BB topic, I'd hate to be an athletic director.  You got to:

• Manage all these programs that all want more resources, especially in this rev share/NIL era
• Keep the donors giving, and my goodness do we have some pain in the @$$ donors lol
• Get money from the university/BoT (thankfully our President is into sports)
• Deal with the fans, and there will always be some angry fans 
• Get coaching hires right
• Manage the operations of the athletic dept
• Deal with periodic PR issues
• Do the politics thing within the conference and broader college sports landscape to advance IU's interests

When an AD does well they don't get much credit, and when something goes wrong people get mad as hell at them.  ADs do get paid a lot, but it's a tough gig.

[jermhoosierfan 576]

CDD doing his pregame media stuff before tonight's game.  He mentioned a "motion offense" in the first minute, and I am like, "Finally!!!".

[TheWatShot 16,035]

Motion offense?! Be still, my heart. Need to see it before I get too excited, though. 

[str8baller 8,305]

5 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Still leading the B1G in attendance the last couple years and top 6 nationally despite being a middle of the pack B1G team on the court and no tournament success shows me  IU is still a basketball  school. Either way,  call it a football school or basketball school but the outside perception will be IU is a basketball school.   During their football games, announcers go out of their way to bring up the basketball history.  For me IU will always be a basketball school first (shocker I know) 

The attendance thing is a good point, even though due to stadium size there’s only a couple schools that can possibly claim the top spot. In any event, we have amazing fans. Both loyal and patient. It’s why it always irks me when one of these coaches goes south that some contingent of the athletic department, coaching community, or blindly loyal fans blames the fan base.  It’s nonsense. 
 

With that said, I was kind of thinking more along the lines of what we’ve been, where we’re at, and where we’re going. At some level people will always associate IU and the state of Indiana with basketball. But looking at the money IU and its donors are pouring in on Cig and the football program and you have to at least raise the question. That’s not happening at Duke, UK, Uconn and Kansas. 
 

I’m not sure where that leaves IU. But another failed coach and 4-8 years lost in the wilderness for IU basketball while Cig goes to a couple more playoffs (or wins a title) and all the nostalgia in the world won’t matter. The balance of power will be firmly with the football program. Everyone inside and outside will recognize it. And I’m in your camp—as far as sports go IU basketball will always be my first choice. 

[str8baller 8,305]

4 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

the program was in good shape it just wasn’t consistently at the level where it could contend at a FF level team so the U canned Crean in favor of a terrible coach in Miller, mistake #1

This would be exhibit #1 in my case against current day IU basketball. 
 

Most, including donors, were ready for Crean to go because he hadn’t lived up to expectations. That people now look back on his tenure well enough to say his firing was a mistake shows how far things have fallen. Davis and Sampson had flashes too…twenty years ago.  
 

The standard at other basketball schools, with whom we wish to be considered peers, is roughly: be in the tourney every year, be able to make a run every few years, actually win a title (or damn close) every decade-ish, and be the best in your conference.  
 

IU hasn’t been there since the early 90’s. Pretty much nobody expects that out of IU. We’re basketball schools like Purdue and NC State are basketball schools where a strong football season relegates you to the backburner until January.  
 

Devries probably takes over a program with the lowest expectations since a young Bob Knight was hired. When Knight was hired IU hadn’t won a title in 18 years (our current FF drought is longer than that now).  Hopefully the lack of pressure will allow Devries to put down a solid foundation and ultimately succeed. 

[HoosierHoopster 9,463]

4 hours ago, Home Jersey said:

Basketball may be good, even great, again under DDV. 

But will they be so great they outshine IUFB, about to go 2/2 on CFP appearances under Cig?

Very possibly the first undefeated season... Stadium renovations/expansion being talked about more and more. 

For the AD to grow, football needs to succeed. It's more important than bball success, flat out. 

I wonder how often they will talk about the football team during basketball games this year. Plenty probably. 

Won't be surprised if they talk about basketball less and less during football games unless we turn it around fast. 

Totally fine by me... and I'd bet Cig too. Changing the way people think around here and what not. 

I prefer basketball to football on a personal level. But IUFB is way more fun to root for and follow right now. 

I buy that IUBB is a sleeping giant.

But I don't think it's going to overtake the momentum football has built without huge, nearly immediate success. 

1. Historically a basketball school.
2. Currently a football school.
3. Potentially an "everything" school if IUBB gets it figured out. 

If the basketball program starts to wake up, this is a good "problem" to have. And money will flow. 

Thing is, you're making assumptions based on the immediate now -- less than 2 seasons of football under Cig. 

FWIW, actual football schools (e.g., Texas) are critiquing IU now as #2 based on an overall weak schedule -- and that's pretty fair. We beat Oregon at Oregon, excellent W, and you can only play the schools on the schedule, but we haven't gone undefeated yet, we haven't yet faced OSU, the schedule has been pretty kind, and that's just this season anyway,. Very possibly the first undefeated season? Yes, possible, no it hasn't happened yet, and just one year anyway.

Football is more important than basketball success, flat out? Your opinion, certainly not mine, and no the AD certainly hasn't intimated that or anything close to it. Football is bigger revenue, that's always been the case, that doesn't mean suddenly IU is turning to football over basketball. It / the AD the administration just fired Woodson, so IU can return to being a strong bball program. That's fact. If it no longer cared so much about bball we could still have mediocre Mike - what an awful thought, lol.

Won't be surprised that they talk about basketball less during football games? Well, why wouldn't the school talk less about basketball during a football game. That doesn't mean anything. You and I agree on many things, on this topic we don't. My opinions are just my opinions, and I always enjoy your posts, so hope I'm not somehow conveying otherwise in the way I'm posting, but there's just no reason, imo, to think IU suddenly cares less about bball.

I think your preference to football on a personal level is driving your expectations. And the inverse of that is probably true of me.

Regardless, very much agree that if (when) the bball program starts to wake (I think that's happened already) this is a good problem to have. Let's be dominant in football and bball. Why not?

[HoosierHoopster 9,463]

3 minutes ago, str8baller said:

This would be exhibit #1 in my case against current day IU basketball. 
 

Most, including donors, were ready for Crean to go because he hadn’t lived up to expectations. That people now look back on his tenure well enough to say his firing was a mistake shows how far things have fallen. Davis and Sampson had flashes too…twenty years ago.  
 

The standard at other basketball schools, with whom we wish to be considered peers, is roughly: be in the tourney every year, be able to make a run every few years, actually win a title (or damn close) every decade-ish, and be the best in your conference.  
 

IU hasn’t been there since the early 90’s. Pretty much nobody expects that out of IU. We’re basketball schools like Purdue and NC State are basketball schools where a strong football season relegates you to the backburner until January.  
 

Devries probably takes over a program with the lowest expectations since a young Bob Knight was hired. When Knight was hired IU hadn’t won a title in 18 years (our current FF drought is longer than that now).  Hopefully the lack of pressure will allow Devries to put down a solid foundation and ultimately succeed. 

No -- I didn't say firing Crean was a mistake, I said hiring Miller was mistake #1. Again, pounding the dead horse that keeps getting ignored, with the right coach there's no reason to believe IU won't rise up again, none. "Exhibit No. 1" would be Sampson, picking up the pieces from Davis' decline after getting to the championship in 2000 with RMK's players. That Crean was able to accomplish the level of success he had -- and I don't care how you want to dice it, it was pretty good -- despite being just an OK coach, should be your Exhibit No. 3, but you flip the script. We see this all differently, that's OK.

[str8baller 8,305]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

with the right coach there's no reason to believe IU won't rise up again, none.

Well yea…that’s any program in any sport anywhere. We don’t need to extrapolate out failed experiments in Crean and Sampson. Cig and IU football prove that. 
 

It doesn’t make IU special. If anything we’re the opposite of whatever “special “ is since most programs can find that hire through sheer luck over 3 decades. But IU on the other hand…
 

We all are hoping Devries is the one to turn that around, of course. 

[Pudman 427]

One thing I love about this year’s team so far is the camaraderie. The whole team has shown up for the last two IUWBB games, not only that, they sit together, they joke around, and they just seem to have fun and so care for one another. Sisley hanging next to Enright and Tucker too is awesome. They left yesterday at the start of the 4th quarter, except for Conerway and Wilkerson. Those two stayed the whole game. The first game those two were goofing and laughing a lot together and dancing too. The whole team was interacting also with the fans around them. Just great to see and great ambassadors of the program to start the season.

[AZ Hoosier 11,546]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

Well yea…that’s any program in any sport anywhere. We don’t need to extrapolate out failed experiments in Crean and Sampson. Cig and IU football prove that. 
 
It doesn’t make IU special. If anything we’re the opposite of whatever “special “ is since most programs can find that hire through sheer luck over 3 decades. But IU on the other hand…
 
We all are hoping Devries is the one to turn that around, of course. 

Well, we had help. The call came from inside the house.

[LIHoosier 29,178]

New polls out; IU 3rd receiving votes in AP, 4th receiving votes Coaches...cowards