Archie. Miller. Fired.

[Unexpectedflash]

Just now, HinnyHoosier said:

 

I like that example. Mick did have a pretty solid history behind him with Cincinnati, and while Archie did some good things at Dayton I would easily have taken Mick’s body of work over his. Shoot, I would take Cronin tomorrow; he’s proven. It doesn’t have to be a guy with umpteen final fours, top 3 recruiting classes, etc. High level experience and consistent winning. Get a guy like that, give him the resources. Who that is right now, I don’t have many confident guesses. The allure we may have to coaches, probably like we had when Archie accepted the job, is the chance to be the guy who resurrected Indiana basketball. I hope players feel the same. Maybe a big reason why he took the UCLA job.


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It helps that UCLA made Cronin a top 3 highest paid coach. That goes a long way in convincing whoever you want as the next coach.

[Capt. Crimson]

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[MikeRoberts]

6 minutes ago, Unexpectedflash said:

It helps that UCLA made Cronin a top 3 highest paid coach. That goes a long way in convincing whoever you want as the next coach.

Money matters but I don’t think they needed to pay him that much to come, they might have overpaid. I would also say that Archie’s top 12 pay probably goes further in Bloomington than Cronin’s top 3 Pay in LA

[Josh]

Let's play with some math here.  I am not a contract attorney, but I am a self proclaimed genius.  If I'm wrong on any of this, please feel free to correct me.  

If we fire Archie at the end of this season (or even now...please!) we would owe him $10 million over the next three years.  Also in the contract if I understand correctly, he is required to find employment.  The income from his next employer would be deducted from this $10M buyout. 

So let's say he gets a coaching gig at a "paltry" $2M/year.  Over the next 3 years he'd earn $6M from his new employer, lowering our buyout to $4M.  Four million dollars spread over 3 years.  If he earns more, our buyout is less.

I see people hung up on this $10 million buyout.  Or trying to settle with him for $7.5M.  I think he'd be smart to take a $4M instant payment and seek employment for more than $2M/year.  In that case he'd be way ahead, as would we.

[NashvilleHoosier]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

Odds are a coaching change brings an immediate worse in the short term.  Likely will see some transfers and I believe we only have one recruit coming in who likely isn't going to provide an immediate impact.  But if we make a change, the focus certainly wouldn't be on the short term.

We would likely see some transfers but this is the one year a new coach could bring just as many transfers in that are immediately eligible. Lots of roster turnover isn't a great formula for immediate success, but you are right, the focus would not be on the short term. I've been wondering if the free agency thing would make it an even more appealing job if we were to make a change this offseason. 

[MikeRoberts]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

Let's play with some math here.  I am not a contract attorney, but I am a self proclaimed genius.  If I'm wrong on any of this, please feel free to correct me.  

If we fire Archie at the end of this season (or even now...please!) we would owe him $10 million over the next three years.  Also in the contract if I understand correctly, he is required to find employment.  The income from his next employer would be deducted from this $10M buyout. 

So let's say he gets a coaching gig at a "paltry" $2M/year.  Over the next 3 years he'd earn $6M from his new employer, lowering our buyout to $4M.  Four million dollars spread over 3 years.  If he earns more, our buyout is less.

I see people hung up on this $10 million buyout.  Or trying to settle with him for $7.5M.  I think he'd be smart to take a $4M instant payment and seek employment for more than $2M/year.  In that case he'd be way ahead, as would we.

I think that is all pretty accurate. It’s not the big deal some are making it out to be. Dolson should call Glass and ask for a donation to help

[Josh]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

I think that is all pretty accurate. It’s not the big deal some are making it out to be. Dolson should call Glass and ask for a donation to help

I like it, Glass owes us for this mess lol

[MikeRoberts]

1 minute ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

We would likely see some transfers but this is the one year a new coach could bring just as many transfers in that are immediately eligible. Lots of roster turnover isn't a great formula for immediate success, but you are right, the focus would not be on the short term. I've been wondering if the free agency thing would make it an even more appealing job if we were to make a change this offseason. 

It is a huge plus in making a change this year. What players are going to want to transfer in when the coach is on his way out? On the flip side, more would find it appealing to transfer into a program where you are on equal level with everyone else, meaning the current players don’t have 1-4 years of love/loyalty established already

[Unexpectedflash]

Even if the coach doesn’t have success in year one I think it’s very likely that a good coach would have us winning by year two. Just look at places like Michigan, Bama, and Arkansas. I really don’t think four years or whatever is required to be good in today’s game with the type of player movement we see nowadays.

I think the key to the success would be retaining Lander and developing him better than Archie would. You need elite guards to be a great team. Armaan will continue to improve and is a stud. We’d need Lander to take a couple of steps and I’d have faith in a new coach developing him better than Archie at this point.

[MikeRoberts]

4 minutes ago, Unexpectedflash said:

Even if the coach doesn’t have success in year one I think it’s very likely that a good coach would have us winning by year two. Just look at places like Michigan, Bama, and Arkansas. I really don’t think four years or whatever is required to be good in today’s game with the type of player movement we see nowadays.

I think the key to the success would be retaining Lander and developing him better than Archie would. You need elite guards to be a great team. Armaan will continue to improve and is a stud. We’d need Lander to take a couple of steps and I’d have faith in a new coach developing him better than Archie at this point.

True. I also think Geronimo could be really good eventually. Lander, Leal and Galloway could all be good but they need to develop confidence and a shot

[lillurk]

Yeah, a good coach with Armaan, the freshmen, and a couple impact transfers could be a tournament team. 

[JSHoosier]

19 minutes ago, Josh said:

I like it, Glass owes us for this mess lol

I'd rather Glass be as removed as humanly possible.

[Stuhoo]

36 minutes ago, Josh said:

Let's play with some math here.  I am not a contract attorney, but I am a self proclaimed genius.  If I'm wrong on any of this, please feel free to correct me.  

If we fire Archie at the end of this season (or even now...please!) we would owe him $10 million over the next three years.  Also in the contract if I understand correctly, he is required to find employment.  The income from his next employer would be deducted from this $10M buyout. 

So let's say he gets a coaching gig at a "paltry" $2M/year.  Over the next 3 years he'd earn $6M from his new employer, lowering our buyout to $4M.  Four million dollars spread over 3 years.  If he earns more, our buyout is less.

I see people hung up on this $10 million buyout.  Or trying to settle with him for $7.5M.  I think he'd be smart to take a $4M instant payment and seek employment for more than $2M/year.  In that case he'd be way ahead, as would we.

He will be required to seek employment.

THAT is why Matta interviewed for jobs like Wichita State that he had no intention whatsoever of taking.

[lillurk]

38 minutes ago, Josh said:

Let's play with some math here.  I am not a contract attorney, but I am a self proclaimed genius.  If I'm wrong on any of this, please feel free to correct me.  

If we fire Archie at the end of this season (or even now...please!) we would owe him $10 million over the next three years.  Also in the contract if I understand correctly, he is required to find employment.  The income from his next employer would be deducted from this $10M buyout. 

So let's say he gets a coaching gig at a "paltry" $2M/year.  Over the next 3 years he'd earn $6M from his new employer, lowering our buyout to $4M.  Four million dollars spread over 3 years.  If he earns more, our buyout is less.

I see people hung up on this $10 million buyout.  Or trying to settle with him for $7.5M.  I think he'd be smart to take a $4M instant payment and seek employment for more than $2M/year.  In that case he'd be way ahead, as would we.

 

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

He will be required to seek employment.

THAT is why Matta interviewed for jobs like Wichita State that he had no intention whatsoever of taking.

I would imagine he’d like to prove he’s capable ASAP given age, health, etc. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

With next year effectively being an open season in recruiting, I'm not concerned with who might transfer out.  With a few I'd be disappointed but not enough to worry about firing Archie immediatelyt.  IMO those that stay would be sending a subtle message they came to play for IU; not necessarily Archie Miller.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

Odds are a coaching change brings an immediate worse in the short term.  Likely will see some transfers and I believe we only have one recruit coming in who likely isn't going to provide an immediate impact.  But if we make a change, the focus certainly wouldn't be on the short term.

How many transferred after Crean left? Bryant, Blackmon and OG left for the pros like we figured they would. 

[Unexpectedflash]

If people transfer year one that just means the new coach has more roster spots to recruit people he wants years two. I doubt it’d be a mass exodus like when Crean got here.

[Josh]

12 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

He will be required to seek employment.

THAT is why Matta interviewed for jobs like Wichita State that he had no intention whatsoever of taking.

I thought Matta resigned, he got bought out?

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

I thought Matta resigned, he got bought out?

I'm guessing that in most coach "resignations" there's been buyout negotiations behind the scenes that culminated in an announced "resignation".

[8bucks]

19 minutes ago, Unexpectedflash said:

If people transfer year one that just means the new coach has more roster spots to recruit people he wants years two. I doubt it’d be a mass exodus like when Crean got here.

If the transfer rules remain looser then this year could be tough at IU. We could have a few bolt unless they feel great about the new coach. Getting transfers into IU has seemed more difficult for some reason.