Are We Better Than Last Year?

[Alford Bailey]

After the last couple games I think we are still on pace to be marginally better than last year. We got punched in face by a good team in Texas then came back with a nice performance against a lesser quality team in Stanford. I think that will be a common theme this season.

[Crazy about IU]

I believe IU is a better team this year. But may not translate into more wins the Big Ten is also better. Not going to be any easy wins Penn State looked really good last night. Should of won all the Big Ten Acc challenge games yesterday. IU outside shooting is going to have to improve which I think it will do to be competitive in the Big. This team is young and I believe it will get better as season goes along. I believe a 10 win Big Ten season would be about right for this team. 

 

[Banksyrules]

I was very excited by the Miller hire.  It’s year four and we still can’t shoot. I think it’s time to decide if we need to go in a different direction.

[maharkn]

I was very excited by the Miller hire.  It’s year four and we still can’t shoot. I think it’s time to decide if we need to go in a different direction.

But the players have reached their max in bench press and have six packs

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[Brass Cannon]

We are worse than last year. Because we are a worse 3 point shooting team.  Big Ten teams will continue to do what they have done for 4 years. Pack the paint. Give us open 3s.  Knowing we will miss them. 

[BGVille Hoosierfan]

22 minutes ago, maharkn said:

But the players have reached their max in bench press and have six packs

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Cliff Marshall is a big problem with this program in my opinion. Shooting is all about muscle memory and he’s training these guys like they’re football players and it’s impossible to develop and maintain a shot when you’re just trying to build muscle mass. He’s a well known NFL trainer and he should stay in that lane. Look at Kevin Durant and Steph Curry, you don’t need to be jacked to be able to shoot the ball. I honestly believe that has played some part in our atrocious shooting over four years.

[Brass Cannon]

7 minutes ago, jbell833 said:

Cliff Marshall is a big problem with this program in my opinion. Shooting is all about muscle memory and he’s training these guys like they’re football players and it’s impossible to develop and maintain a shot when you’re just trying to build muscle mass. He’s a well known NFL trainer and he should stay in that lane. Look at Kevin Durant and Steph Curry, you don’t need to be jacked to be able to shoot the ball. I honestly believe that has played some part in our atrocious shooting over four years.

It’s a fair point.  Once conditioning was over my soccer coach forbade us from doing leg workouts.  So that we could settle into muscle memory. If these guys are building muscle the whole offseason how can they do that. 

[IU - Kaulie]

My take is we are better but that’s solely based on the roster turnover.  I have zero confidence that this staff (this includes the whole staff) will make them better.  Now that falls on the players too but still.

Heck, to the causal observer who doesn’t know better one of the two guys coming off the bus you would think would be a player really can’t play at this level.

 

[Bigred3588]

3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

It’s a fair point.  Once conditioning was over my soccer coach forbade us from doing leg workouts.  So that we could settle into muscle memory. If these guys are building muscle the whole offseason how can they do that. 

There’s nothing wrong with building muscle during the off-season. Hell, most of the former IU players currently in the NBA come back to IU to work out with Marshall during the off-season. It’s only an issue if you continue to make gains during the season, and I highly doubt Marshall is unaware of that. 

The fact is, players have a ceiling when it comes to shooting. You could teach one player perfect technique and they’ll never be more than a 36-38% shooter regardless of the muscle memory built. Meanwhile, an unconventional shooter like Hulls can maintain 40+ percent. You could put both players through the same strength training program, and that disparity won’t change. 
 

IMO, our shooting woes boil down to the fact that Archie doesn’t bother recruiting shooters because he doesn’t view them as a necessity for his offense. I suspect he doesn’t emphasize development in this area for the same reason. His offense is predicated on getting the ball to the rim and generating layups and/or fouls. You aren’t going to accomplish that with players that spend the bulk of their time on mechanics. All he really needs is a couple of guys that are good enough to keep the defense honest. It’s not the prettiest offense and I don’t necessarily like it, but I doubt we’ll see much of a change during his tenure at IU. 

[Hoosier Guy]

I’m not into moral victories. This isn’t peewee sports where every team gets a participation trophy. IU had every chance to win that game. They didn’t capitalize

[Trish]

I honestly think our system of defense and offense is slightly better. We may never get a great amount of data from this season given our national pandemic. But it will be interesting to compare the numbers if we make it to march with a decent amount of comparable data points. 

 

[Stuhoo]

4 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

I’m not into moral victories. This isn’t peewee sports where every team gets a participation trophy. IU had every chance to win that game. They didn’t capitalize

 

But this thread isn't designed to discuss the relative value of moral victories. 

It is to discuss whether we are better than last year's 20-12 team.

1. Does anyone really think that last year we could have an "off" night in so many respects and still take a top 20, athletic team to OT on the road? 
2. We are not a title contender, but we are a better team than last year. Here's why; not only is TJD a little better than last year,  Race and Armaan this year are better rotational players than ANYONE we used last year (beyond Trayce). 

Can any of you make a sane case for anyone on last year's team being more effective that Race or Armaan have been? That is not to say that Race and Armaan are flawless, title contender featured players, but they have played at a very high level so far.

 

[Trish]

37 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

But this thread isn't designed to discuss the relative value of moral victories. 

It is to discuss whether we are better than last year's 20-12 team.

1. Does anyone really think that last year we could have an "off" night in so many respects and still take a top 20, athletic team to OT on the road? 
2. We are not a title contender, but we are a better team than last year. Here's why; not only is TJD a little better than last year,  Race and Armaan this year are better rotational players than ANYONE we used last year (beyond Trayce). 

Can any of you make a sane case for anyone on last year's team being more effective that Race or Armaan have been? That is not to say that Race and Armaan are flawless, title contender featured players, but they have played at a very high level so far.

 

I can agree with this. I think our offense improved by not having Green be so ball dominate with the basketball. I think we're seeing the ball be reversed more and we're making some extra passes. 

Defensively I think we've improved as well. We're switching some ball screens, our hard hedges have improved a slight bit, and we're simply playing great positioning and helpside defense on drives. 

 

[JaybobHoosier]

I can agree with this. I think our offense improved by not having Green be so ball dominate with the basketball. I think we're seeing the ball be reversed more and we're making some extra passes. 
Defensively I think we've improved as well. We're switching some ball screens, our hard hedges have improved a slight bit, and we're simply playing great positioning and helpside defense on drives. 
 

Our offense still has a lot to be desired, but it is better. I have loved our defense this season. Even without a bunch of size we are a top defense in the country.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Armaan has looked more aggressive. Still can't hit the broad side of a barn but he's a lockdown defender. Durham has looked god awful this season. Rob has been so-so bit has showed flashes of wanting to be a scorer. But this team as a whole is just like last year thanks to the offense still being terrible. 

[Hoosier Guy]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

But this thread isn't designed to discuss the relative value of moral victories. 

It is to discuss whether we are better than last year's 20-12 team.

1. Does anyone really think that last year we could have an "off" night in so many respects and still take a top 20, athletic team to OT on the road? 
2. We are not a title contender, but we are a better team than last year. Here's why; not only is TJD a little better than last year,  Race and Armaan this year are better rotational players than ANYONE we used last year (beyond Trayce). 

Can any of you make a sane case for anyone on last year's team being more effective that Race or Armaan have been? That is not to say that Race and Armaan are flawless, title contender featured players, but they have played at a very high level so far.

 

It’s yet to be determined if IU is better than last year. They’ve lost the two significant tests. Do I like the improvement from the Texas game to the Florida State game? Absolutely. Will IU continue to improve as the season goes along? That’s yet to be determined

[JaybobHoosier]

Putting this here instead of the FSU game thread which is an article from ITH. Reason why I’m posting it here is one of their takeaways about not doing well on the road against a ranked opponent. I think people need to understand while our offense still isn’t good and that IS on Archie, that all other areas are improving, especially the culture with the team which is HUGE! I’m not excusing the bad offense, but we have no proven depth right now with Brunk hurt and Jerome still getting himself adjusted. Depth can also be placed on the coaching staff too, but that took a hit with Smith transferring. This team is relying on freshman right now to fill major areas when there have been no tuneup games. Like I’ve said all along, the start of the season will not be as good as the end of the season once this team gets the experience needed!

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/12/10/five-takeaways-from-indianas-loss-at-florida-state/


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[TheWatShot]

I think our movement on offense has improved. I noticed at some point during the game last night, I wasn't yelling "MOVE!" at my TV screen like I had become used to doing. 

 

The bigger issue is that our problems on offense are endemic. We simply cannot shoot the basketball, and that's not typically something that gets better during a season. Free throw shooting will come and go. I still hate 1 and 1's, and I consider it lucky when somebody actually makes both shots. I was shocked TJD made both of his at the end of the first overtime. 

 

Effort won't be the problem it was last season. We'll still have some nights where it's just not there, and people will moan and groan about it, but no team brings it for 40 full minutes every single game. This roster just isn't talented enough to finish in the top half of the conference. Too many recruiting misses over the last 3 years have added up. 

[JaybobHoosier]

I think our movement on offense has improved. I noticed at some point during the game last night, I wasn't yelling "MOVE!" at my TV screen like I had become used to doing. 
 
The bigger issue is that our problems on offense are endemic. We simply cannot shoot the basketball, and that's not typically something that gets better during a season. Free throw shooting will come and go. I still hate 1 and 1's, and I consider it lucky when somebody actually makes both shots. I was shocked TJD made both of his at the end of the first overtime. 
 
Effort won't be the problem it was last season. We'll still have some nights where it's just not there, and people will moan and groan about it, but no team brings it for 40 full minutes every single game. This roster just isn't talented enough to finish in the top half of the conference. Too many recruiting misses over the last 3 years have added up. 

This isn’t directed towards you or anyone, but I think the recruiting miss thing is a little overblown to a degree. I feel it’s just highlighted because the shooters he did recruit went elsewhere, but Archie has gotten a lot of good recruits to come here. You can argue either side, but his recruiting has been mostly good.


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[bigrod]

13 hours ago, maharkn said:

But the players have reached their max in bench press and have six packs

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We have the All Airport team. Can't remember if that was Vitale or McGuire that used to say that.