IUBB vs Rutgers Game Thread 1/15 7 pm BTN

[Alford Bailey]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

The guard play was awful. Yes, Green was terrible but so were Phinisee and Durham. The problem is the coach has yet to go out and recruit shooters not to mention his offensive schemes depress movement that can generate scoring. Hopefully, they can somehow scratch out a win at Nebraska since that is probably the last opportunity to win on the road this season.

Having a hard time remembering guard play this bad in the last 40 years of watching IU basketball.

[darB s'tI]

I threw most of this on the "if IU loses" thread, but thought I would add to it here.. I don't think CAM is doing a poor job; he can't make our guys shoot better once the game starts and he is clearly managing the game the best he can. He got t'd up last night; he benched DG after a sloppy turnover; he uses time outs effectively (something CTC never learned, ever). That's the type of stuff I, as a more X&0 type of fan, like seeing. I struggle with our guard play - who wouldn't - and the fact that seniors can provide zero production. That statement; when guards and seniors don't show up, is what kills us ultimately. Our seniors are not leaders, and our youth isn't ready to lead IMO. RP isn't Yogi although he has a similar task. When our guards play well, we can beat anyone, anywhere. Laugh if you will, but I believe it.  We embarrassed FSU and OSU. Both are incredibly talented teams, and we did it both times with consistent guard play. It really opens the court up for us and we don't have to solely rely in TJD. It's a shame someone can't step up and provide that for us consistently from a guard perspective. Aside from that, look at the scoreboard last night...the NCAA is a crapshoot right now. UK, BU, IU, Auburn, PSU, VA, Creighton and Wichita State all lose. We're not alone here people. If we can keep pace and figure out how to get to 19 or 20, we're in a pretty good spot IMO. Other side notes: I don't need to see quite a few of our guys play anymore. Some of them just aren't good enough and they're proving that, repeatedly. "Shooters", can't shoot. "Leaders" aren't leading. Play the grit and heart guys; at least they give a ****. I'm not going to name players as taking shots at teenagers and college kids is Childs play, but I can think of 5 players I would not miss tomorrow, including guys that get regular minutes.

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, IU-DL said:

I threw most of this on the "if IU loses" thread, but thought I would add to it here.. I don't think CAM is doing a poor job; he can't make our guys shoot better once the game starts and he is clearly managing the game the best he can. He got t'd up last night; he benched DG after a sloppy turnover; he uses time outs effectively (something CTC never learned, ever). That's the type of stuff I, as a more X&0 type of fan, like seeing. I struggle with our guard play - who wouldn't - and the fact that seniors can provide zero production. That statement; when guards and seniors don't show up, is what kills us ultimately. Our seniors are not leaders, and our youth isn't ready to lead IMO. RP isn't Yogi although he has a similar task. When our guards play well, we can beat anyone, anywhere. Laugh if you will, but I believe it.  We embarrassed FSU and OSU. Both are incredibly talented teams, and we did it both times with consistent guard play. It really opens the court up for us and we don't have to solely rely in TJD. It's a shame someone can't step up and provide that for us consistently from a guard perspective. Aside from that, look at the scoreboard last night...the NCAA is a crapshoot right now. UK, BU, IU, Auburn, PSU, VA, Creighton and Wichita State all lose. We're not alone here people. If we can keep pace and figure out how to get to 19 or 20, we're in a pretty good spot IMO. Other side notes: I don't need to see quite a few of our guys play anymore. Some of them just aren't good enough and they're proving that, repeatedly. "Shooters", can't shoot. "Leaders" aren't leading. Play the grit and heart guys; at least they give a ****. I'm not going to name players as taking shots at teenagers and college kids is Childs play, but I can think of 5 players I would not miss tomorrow, including guys that get regular minutes.

He benched Green but he keeps giving him chances and he’s knows that. Green knows that if he doesn’t try now he will still play later. It’s long overdue that cam tells Green that the next time he goes in there and plays like this is a playground that it’s the last time he will play. 
 

That message should have been delivered last year. 

[LamarCheeks]

I think Archie is kind of in a Catch-22 with Green. ... If you filled him with truth serum, he'd probably say he'd prefer to sit him or play him very little. But the truth is, Green is the best shooter on a team that can't shoot. And when Archie throws him out there, he's probably hoping that the switch will come on and he'll start nailing 3s -- like against OSU in the tourney last year, against FSU earlier this season or against OSU again last Saturday. ... Unfortunately, those moments are way too few and far between ... I'd say keep bringing him off the bench and each game, throw him out there for a five- or six-minute stretch. If he makes a couple 3s, he gets a couple more minutes. If not, that's it, he's done for the game --- or gets a couple minutes here and there just to spell Rob. The TOs, bad decisions, porous defense and seemingly poor attitude aren't worth the risk. And obviously, I'm not there behind the scenes, but I can't imagine he provides much leadership. 

Every time I see him come in, I think "This is gonna be the game. He's gonna knock down a few 3s and help open things up. And that's gonna carry over throughout the rest of the season." ... But it just doesn't happen. Getting hot once in every 15 games or so doesn't cut it, and it's never been sustained for more than a game. As of now, Green is third on the team at 24 minutes a game. If I were Archie, I think that needs to cut back to 12-15. Maybe less. You can't keep playing him in hopes he'll go on a shooting tear. It just doesn't happen often enough. We keep talking about "Bad Devonte" and "Good Devonte." ... But really, what's the ratio? Seems to me it's about 9:1 toward the bad. It's just no longer worth the risk to justify that much PT, in my opinion. 

[pumpfake]

1 hour ago, IU-DL said:

I threw most of this on the "if IU loses" thread, but thought I would add to it here.. I don't think CAM is doing a poor job; he can't make our guys shoot better once the game starts and he is clearly managing the game the best he can. He got t'd up last night; he benched DG after a sloppy turnover; he uses time outs effectively (something CTC never learned, ever). That's the type of stuff I, as a more X&0 type of fan, like seeing. I struggle with our guard play - who wouldn't - and the fact that seniors can provide zero production. That statement; when guards and seniors don't show up, is what kills us ultimately. Our seniors are not leaders, and our youth isn't ready to lead IMO. RP isn't Yogi although he has a similar task. When our guards play well, we can beat anyone, anywhere. Laugh if you will, but I believe it.  We embarrassed FSU and OSU. Both are incredibly talented teams, and we did it both times with consistent guard play. It really opens the court up for us and we don't have to solely rely in TJD. It's a shame someone can't step up and provide that for us consistently from a guard perspective. Aside from that, look at the scoreboard last night...the NCAA is a crapshoot right now. UK, BU, IU, Auburn, PSU, VA, Creighton and Wichita State all lose. We're not alone here people. If we can keep pace and figure out how to get to 19 or 20, we're in a pretty good spot IMO. Other side notes: I don't need to see quite a few of our guys play anymore. Some of them just aren't good enough and they're proving that, repeatedly. "Shooters", can't shoot. "Leaders" aren't leading. Play the grit and heart guys; at least they give a ****. I'm not going to name players as taking shots at teenagers and college kids is Childs play, but I can think of 5 players I would not miss tomorrow, including guys that get regular minutes.

Good points, good post.

I'll just add that even though those teams you mentioned lost, it doesn't make us any better.  That's why we've all had critical comments despite an overall good record. 

Last night Rutgers beat us, but they weren't particularly impressive - it was a very winnable game for us. (Not taking anything away from RU - they might not have had one of their better performances).

Archie is building a program and we have to realize and accept that (what choice is there?) but our play/improvement seems stagnant.  At least the last two games have had effort from the players.

[JSHoosier]

3 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

I think Archie is kind of in a Catch-22 with Green. ... If you filled him with truth serum, he'd probably say he'd prefer to sit him or play him very little. But the truth is, Green is the best shooter on a team that can't shoot. And when Archie throws him out there, he's probably hoping that the switch will come on and he'll start nailing 3s -- like against OSU in the tourney last year, against FSU earlier this season or against OSU again on Saturday. ... Unfortunately, those moments are way too few and far between ... I'd say keep bringing him off the bench and each game, throw him out there for a five- or six-minute stretch. If he makes a couple 3s, he gets a couple more minutes. If not, that's it, he's done for the game --- or gets a couple minutes here and there just to spell Rob. The TOs, bad decisions, porous defense and seemingly poor attitude aren't worth the risk. And obviously, I'm not there behind the scenes, but I can't imagine he provides much leadership. 

Every time I see him come in, I think "This is gonna be the game. He's gonna knock down a few 3s and help open things up. And that's gonna carry over throughout the rest of the season." ... But it just doesn't happen. Getting hot once in every 15 games or so doesn't cut it, and it's never been sustained for more than a game. As of now, Green is third on the team at 24 minutes a game. If I were Archie, I think that needs to cut back to 12-15. Maybe less. You can't keep playing him in hopes he'll go on a shooting tear. It just doesn't happen often enough. We keep talking about "Bad Devonte" and "Good Devonte." ... But really, what's the ratio? Seems to me it's about 10:1 toward the bad. It's just no longer worth the risk, in my opinion. 

Being the best shooter on this team is the same as the tallest midget.  Green isn't a particularly good shooter, he just sometimes gets hot; many of the shots he takes he has no business taking in the first place.

I'm done with him, be glad when he's gone.  His minutes yesterday should've in single digits.

[pumpfake]

5 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

......Every time I see him come in, I think "This is gonna be the game. He's gonna knock down a few 3s and help open things up. And that's gonna carry over throughout the rest of the season." ... But it just doesn't happen......

I think (hope) that with several players, but confess there's acouple I've all but abondoned hope with.

[TXHoosierDaddy]

Sure is hard to win on the road when you can't shoot. Game against Nebraska is huge. I feel like we have to get this one. Go home with an L and its going to be difficult to see us getting any road wins this year. 

[Alford Bailey]

Archie's recruiting and roster makeup force him to play Green. Then there is the fact that the most selfish player on the team is also a captain.....

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Having a hard time remembering guard play this bad in the last 40 years of watching IU basketball.

Remember when people hated on Bracey Wright and Marshall Strickland? It’d be nice to have them now lol.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Archie's recruiting and roster makeup force him to play Green. Then there is the fact that the most selfish player on the team is also a captain.....

Archie could have completely rebuilt this roster and took the APR hit. We weren’t making the tourney anyways. He should have told Durham to go elsewhere before coming here. Told Green and Davis goodbye. And then hit the grad transfers. Would it have been pretty? Nope. But how does that change from what we watch now?


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[cthomas]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

Being the best shooter on this team is the same as the tallest midget. 

I believe they prefer to be called 'little people'.

[HinnyHoosier]

Archie could have completely rebuilt this roster and took the APR hit. We weren’t making the tourney anyways. He should have told Durham to go elsewhere before coming here. Told Green and Davis goodbye. And then hit the grad transfers. Would it have been pretty? Nope. But how does that change from what we watch now?


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You can take the APR repercussions when your administration lets you. If I had my guess, he would have gotten the finger wag on that.


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[RaceToTheTop]

12 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

The fact we accept starting a game giving up 12 straight point as something to battle back from abs finding morale victories with that is a testament how far gone this program is. 
 

Who is this “we” you are talking about?  Has anyone here said that was acceptable?

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Remember when people hated on Bracey Wright and Marshall Strickland? It’d be nice to have them now lol.


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Or Vaden.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Archie could have completely rebuilt this roster and took the APR hit. We weren’t making the tourney anyways. He should have told Durham to go elsewhere before coming here. Told Green and Davis goodbye. And then hit the grad transfers. Would it have been pretty? Nope. But how does that change from what we watch now?


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And there would have still been people complaining about not making the tournament, including many of the same people. I agree with this though

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[Josh]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Archie could have completely rebuilt this roster and took the APR hit. We weren’t making the tourney anyways. He should have told Durham to go elsewhere before coming here. Told Green and Davis goodbye. And then hit the grad transfers. Would it have been pretty? Nope. But how does that change from what we watch now?


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This has been debunked.  There would have not been an apr hit.  See:  Grant Gelon.  It's just another excuse.

[Uspshoosier]

This has been debunked.  There would have not been an apr hit.  See:  Grant Gelon.  It's just another excuse.

Debunked by who? You?


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[Josh]

4 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Debunked by who? You?


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Debunked by facts.  Why did we let Gelon go with no apr hit?  Why could that not have happened with others?  Also, letting recruits out of their LOI wouldn't have affected our apr either.

[IUc2016]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Debunked by facts.  Why did we let Gelon go with no apr hit?  Why could that not have happened with others?  Also, letting recruits out of their LOI wouldn't have affected our apr either.

You have debunked it in your mind. There are not facts that have done so. Only speculation on your part which you claim as fact.