Negativity Thread

[Napleshoosier 10,249]

What about maybe a Randy Whitman/Mike Woodson team to get things righted and then when Vic is ready to hang it up in the NBA give the team to him and Jordan Hulls. Randy and Mike on NCAA Banner team, NBA players plus NBA coaching experience. What say you all?


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[LamarCheeks 18,986]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

I would buy more that the message got sent if the team had responded.  They were 3-3 in the conference before that game and ended the year 7-11.  They also immediately lost the next game at home to Iowa by 13.  They 4-7 in conference after the Illinois game with their four victories coming against three teams that were a combined 13-41 in conference.

I meant that at least Knight did something. He didn't just make idle threats like Archie seems to ... But thank you for the history lesson. 

[mamasa 15,317]

You think those guys took the moral high ground and didnt watch when Sampson was coach? Me either.

First, it’s possible to watch a team and not support the coach. When Sampson was hired, I hoped he’d changed or could at least keep clean while here. As soon as I saw the character of his recruits, and Sampson’s unchanged nature, I couldn’t wait for him to be gone. Just because you’re comfortable with cheating/grey area doesn’t mean everyone is. Call me what you will but I’d much prefer to lose while following the rules to winning while cheating.


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[iu-dl 1,470]

8 hours ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Moving on from coaches is only bad for a program if you hire another mediocre coach who can’t attract elite talent. It’s all about timing and opportunity coming together the one time, and history is easily forgotten.

Simple recent example of a proud franchise who made the decision mediocrity and waiting for both player and coaching development to turn things around was too big a risk, with fan support and former players growing more vocal about letting their rich history and tradition slip away: The Lakers missed the playoffs and had a below .500 record six straight years beginning in 2013. They went through 4 coaches in the next 7 years. They had one of the most-coveted young, up-and-coming coaches in the entire league (Walton) and could very well have waited for young talent of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma and Isaiah Thomas to develop into an elite team, and maybe they would have. But elite franchises and blue blood programs don’t wait and hope when the opportunity becomes available to fix it now. They took the sure thing going out and getting Lebron, AD and Danny Green and hiring Frank Vogel. Boom. NBA Championship favorites, year 2, and an alumni and fan base comfortably back where they expect to be. Nobody talking about 4 coaches in 7 years.

 If circumstances were different maybe Archie gets a couple more at-bats, but timing and opportunity with the new AD, a groundswell change of stance by the BoT being driven by pressure from prominent people with influence who maybe haven’t applied much pressure until recently, and the RIGHT coach with the right ties to the new AD happening to be open to a chance to single-handedly resurrect a once perennial power and create an untouchable legacy for himself - just might create that one big opportunity the powers that be have no choice but to do the bold, sure thing, while that window of timing and opportunity exist. It’s not as far-fetched a scenario as many might think based on our perspective as fans, that the ship is sinking and the only game-changers are not a possible and would never consider it. I would say, be a little patient, and watch for the stars to begin aligning one at a time. 

I get your point as the Lakers have turned it around, but can't say I agree with this in reference to IU.  We're on a 20 year run of being down, and the Lakers pennied up for two studs who could take them to prominence. Deep pockets and the only city that can remotely hold LeBron's ego is LA. Aside from that, no one can work with LeBron James. Coaches hate him as he turns them all into lame ducks; He has turned on virtually every teammate. But he's great and he wins. So you get what you get. Also, walton was a great coach who would have thrived on any other team, but then the self proclaimed king came along and ousted him. Anyway, I like what you wrote but that's just not IU. We're looking for consistency, depth and pride.  Right now, we're missing all 3. We do have a similar attribute to the Lakers, however, and that's a cancer on the team. We can't do what they did due to a couple restrictions. Brad Stevens surrounded by 5 star recruits from Indiana is a dream world.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,479]

24 minutes ago, IU-DL said:

I get your point as the Lakers have turned it around, but can't say I agree with this in reference to IU.  We're on a 20 year run of being down, and the Lakers pennied up for two studs who could take them to prominence. Deep pockets and the only city that can remotely hold LeBron's ego is LA. Aside from that, no one can work with LeBron James. Coaches hate him as he turns them all into lame ducks; He has turned on virtually every teammate. But he's great and he wins. So you get what you get. Also, walton was a great coach who would have thrived on any other team, but then the self proclaimed king came along and ousted him. Anyway, I like what you wrote but that's just not IU. We're looking for consistency, depth and pride.  Right now, we're missing all 3. We do have a similar attribute to the Lakers, however, and that's a cancer on the team. We can't do what they did due to a couple restrictions. Brad Stevens surrounded by 5 star recruits from Indiana is a dream world.

Lmao. This is so far from the truth but I won't waste my time on it.

[Chris007 44,066]

29 minutes ago, IU-DL said:

I get your point as the Lakers have turned it around, but can't say I agree with this in reference to IU.  We're on a 20 year run of being down, and the Lakers pennied up for two studs who could take them to prominence. Deep pockets and the only city that can remotely hold LeBron's ego is LA. Aside from that, no one can work with LeBron James. Coaches hate him as he turns them all into lame ducks; He has turned on virtually every teammate. But he's great and he wins. So you get what you get. Also, walton was a great coach who would have thrived on any other team, but then the self proclaimed king came along and ousted him. Anyway, I like what you wrote but that's just not IU. We're looking for consistency, depth and pride.  Right now, we're missing all 3. We do have a similar attribute to the Lakers, however, and that's a cancer on the team. We can't do what they did due to a couple restrictions. Brad Stevens surrounded by 5 star recruits from Indiana is a dream world.

Exactly Lebron is not walking through our door. And most people need to remember that Frank Vogel was their 10th pick to coach and was average in Indiana. 

[Chris007 44,066]

I think this is what fans want to see and hear from our coach.

 

 

[Brass Cannon 24,819]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

I think this is what fans want to see and hear from our coach.

 

 

Our current roster outside of Brunk and maybe 2 others would be crying in the corner if Archie did that. Just to be fair to Archie. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,479]

13 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think this is what fans want to see and hear from our coach.

 

 

This was after a win too. 47 days later we won a national championship.

[MikeRoberts 7,027]

I think this is what fans want to see and hear from our coach.

 

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I don’t think I want to hear another word from Archie until he walks the walk.

 

I’m done listening. He sold me on what he said when he came in but little of that has been evident in his actions

 

 

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[Lebowski 2,744]

15 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Firing your 5th coach (Davis, Sampson, Dakich, Crean, Miller) since 2006 when said coach is in year 3 before his recruits become upper classmen "could also really hurt the program."

I'm not here to sell Archie, but a whole lot of this mess is on the players, too.  I think he deserves one more season to show real progress AND that success is sustainable.   One man's opinion, but this team's seniors are the worst in my lifetime, and I think that matters. 

Indiana Basketball needs a coach similar to Donald Trump, only in that whoever he is, like Bob Knight, can't care one bit what people say about him and can't cave to the peanut gallery OR the players.  He needs a very thick skin, needs to want the spotlight, but can't listen to the chaff.  Glass can't hire the next coach.   That would be the worst thing for this program; especially if Chris Reynolds is being considered.   A former player, if he's the AD, should be the one who decides the direction, in my opinion.

I'm just going to say this.  In Knight's second year at IU he took his "non recruits" to a final four.  Mike Izzo, in his third year, his "non recruits" won the conference and he took his team to the Sweet 16.  Billy Donovan, in his third year, his "non recruits" finished 3rd in the conference and he took his team to the Sweet 16.  And there is a whole list of other coaches I can give examples.  

At some point you have start to question Archie's ability to develop players.  Development isn't only physical. It's also mental.  And in my opinion this team isn't developing mentally or physically.  It's gotten worse.  If you want to wait another year for you to determine that, so be it.  I've come to a conclusion that this isn't what IU basketball is about.  Especially after that debacle this past Saturday.

[IUc2016 7,121]

I'm just going to say this.  In Knight's second year at IU he took his "non recruits" to a final four.  Mike Izzo, in his third year, his "non recruits" won the conference and he took his team to the Sweet 16.  Billy Donovan, in his third year, his "non recruits" finished 3rd in the conference and he took his team to the Sweet 16.  And there is a whole list of other coaches I can give examples.  
At some point you have start to question Archie's ability to develop players.  Development isn't only physical. It's also mental.  And in my opinion this team isn't developing mentally or physically.  It's gotten worse.  If you want to wait another year for you to determine that, so be it.  I've come to a conclusion that this isn't what IU basketball is about.  Especially after that debacle this past Saturday.

I have taken a lot of crap for saying that year three is key and I would wait until the end of it because it is usually when a great coach turns things around.

Well almost to the end of year three and still a lot of questions. Really hate that it’s turning out this way, I like Archie and the potential of him being the guy for 20+ years. He isn’t weird. He isn’t dirty. He is pretty much about his business. He is really likeable and so are the kids he brings in.

Just can’t get it done on the court and at some point that trumps all else.


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[8bucks 6,460]

If Archie has lost the fan base the cost to keep him might be higher than the buyout. Empty arena, vocal negative crowd if we lose at home. Lost recruiting for 2021 and 2022.


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[OldBuddy67 255]

2 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

I'm just going to say this.  In Knight's second year at IU he took his "non recruits" to a final four.  Mike Izzo, in his third year, his "non recruits" won the conference and he took his team to the Sweet 16.  Billy Donovan, in his third year, his "non recruits" finished 3rd in the conference and he took his team to the Sweet 16.  And there is a whole list of other coaches I can give examples.  

At some point you have start to question Archie's ability to develop players.  Development isn't only physical. It's also mental.  And in my opinion this team isn't developing mentally or physically.  It's gotten worse.  If you want to wait another year for you to determine that, so be it.  I've come to a conclusion that this isn't what IU basketball is about.  Especially after that debacle this past Saturday.

Exactly Lebowski!!! How bout schools like Louisville and Butler in the last two years?!? Everyone knows the issues Louisville has had yet Mack has them in the Top 5. Butler was down 1 year and now Jordan has them rolling! 

It's maddening that Archie has the recruiting budget, fans, tradition, etc amongst many other things of a fading fast blue blood like IU! He's in over his head! Sad what IU had become! 

[Brass Cannon 24,819]

2 minutes ago, OldBuddy67 said:

Exactly Lebowski!!! How bout schools like Louisville and Butler in the last two years?!? Everyone knows the issues Louisville has had yet Mack has them in the Top 5. Butler was down 1 year and now Jordan has them rolling! 

It's maddening that Archie has the recruiting budget, fans, tradition, etc amongst many other things of a fading fast blue blood like IU! He's in over his head! Sad what IU had become! 

Heck don’t forget Archies old school. 

[rcbowla 7,126]

In regards to the buyout is it structured the same way Crean's was? Meaning if he got a job in college basketball or maybe even broadcasting (not sure on this one) that the amount owed by IU is offset by whatever that salary is? Think I'm remembering that correctly.

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[IUc2016 7,121]

Exactly Lebowski!!! How bout schools like Louisville and Butler in the last two years?!? Everyone knows the issues Louisville has had yet Mack has them in the Top 5. Butler was down 1 year and now Jordan has them rolling! 
It's maddening that Archie has the recruiting budget, fans, tradition, etc amongst many other things of a fading fast blue blood like IU! He's in over his head! Sad what IU had become! 

It is frustrating to see those schools succeed earlier. But you can’t look at this in a vacuum.

Neither of the previous coaches at Butler or Louisville were fired because they weren’t getting the job done. Holtmann had them rolling and left to Ohio state. Pitino had been to multiple final fours and won a national championship.

IU on the other hand was years removed from a complete rebuild and missed the tournament 5 of the previous 9 years. And crean was fired because the program was not in a good spot.


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[Josh 12,647]

1 minute ago, IUc2016 said:

Pitino had been to multiple final fours and won a national championship.

ASTERISK

[HoosierTrav 7,890]

10 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

In regards to the buyout is it structured the same way Crean's was? Meaning if he got a job in college basketball or maybe even broadcasting (not sure on this one) that the amount owed by IU is offset by whatever that salary is? Think I'm remembering that correctly.

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Yes it would. Also, we would be able to spread the word amount over time in payments. Not all due upfront. 

[rcbowla 7,126]

Yes it would. Also, we would be able to spread the word amount over time in payments. Not all due upfront. 

Thanks. I feel this makes the buyout even less of an issue. I mean Crean got a job a year removed so we really aren't breaking the bank with him but we were willing to. I say it's a wash and doubt it's as big of a factor as many seem to think. I could be wrong as I don't know all of the ins and outs of the contract stuff but I just think it's a piss poor excuse considering what's at stake for the long term.

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