Fred Glass Retiring

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

You are so full of your own bullsh*t, I think there's no argument with you.   You have zero sense of context, no grasp of reality, and you have no basis for your opinions except raw data that requires zero thought or application.   I'm more than happy to argue about it with you because you have no ability at all to accept or apply the "why" to anything.  You're clearly someone who uses the abstract  of what hasn't happened yet to make you believe you're right until you're proven wrong.
You moved right from "Fire Tom Allen" to "Archie isn't good enough" even after your "Fire Tom Allen" stance was blown to crap because you were proven wrong.....after you used the same garbage arguments about HIM because ______ hadn't happened yet and you had no ability to actually see or understand what was happening.   I told you 4-5 weeks ago to open your eyes and you obviously didn't.  Maybe you have now, but you've moved on even after being proven completely idiotic.  The same is true here.   Do yourself a favor and also one for everyone here and use some circumstantial application.  Show some comprehension of the situation.  Your negativity is poisonous and it's also pathetic.  But your lack of situational awareness is actually comical.
 
Edit :  Here.  I posted this earlier and I know you saw it.  Consider this pointed directly at your berth.      More and more, I see people here who have zero ability to see what's going on and base opinion solely on numbers from the past without taking truth and circumstances into consideration.   I hope you're not sales people who have an explainable bad quarter...you'll lose your own job, and your words here would completely justify it.   In fewer words, I see some people who don't know what they're talking about.   Same guys who said "FIRE TOM ALLEN!" 3 games into this season.   That didn't age well...and I haven't seen one of those bozos say they were wrong.  Same here.  Fire Archie?  Fire Glass?  Before everything plays out?   They have no idea what they're talking about. 

You’re one of the few who beat their chest over beating MSU like it just wipes out all the butt kickings this program has taken under Archie and all the embarrassing games we’ve had to watch under Archie. You gotta call out the bad and the good. And there has been way more bad than good. You just want it to be rainbows and sunshine so you block out the bad.


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[jk34]

The guy beat a #6(Ohio St.), a #3(Syracuse), and #10(Stanford). Lost to the #1(Florida)

Get outta here with your Archie is in over his head stuff. 

[Uspshoosier]

You’re one of the few who beat their chest over beating MSU like it just wipes out all the butt kickings this program has taken under Archie and all the embarrassing games we’ve had to watch under Archie. You gotta call out the bad and the good. And there has been way more bad than good. You just want it to be rainbows and sunshine so you block out the bad.


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Shame on him for pumping out his chest over IU sweeping a team that went to the final 4. What nerve of an IU fan to do that on a Indiana basketball message board. Down with the pumper of sunshine [emoji274]. Seems to me you want it all doom and gloom and block out the positive. Regardless your a negative poster. That’s your thing. 98% of your posts seem mad at people for having a positive outlook. You can stop trying to pied pipering me to your negative outlook it’s not going to work. Your wasting your time just as much as I’m wasting my time thinking you could actually contribute and become a valuable poster to this board. If this board has too positive of outlook for IU or its coach maybe it’s time to find another board for you to spend your time. Nothings going to change here people will always point out the positives way more then the negatives on a message board. I know it has to suck for a negative poster like you and others but it is what it is. Maybe you can start your own IU message board where you focus on all the negative that goes on with IU athletics. When it’s up and running let me know and I will troll it with positive outlooks just like you troll this board daily. Happy birthday coach Miller glad you will be here for years to come [emoji6]


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[Old Friend]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You’re one of the few who beat their chest over beating MSU like it just wipes out all the butt kickings this program has taken under Archie and all the embarrassing games we’ve had to watch under Archie. You gotta call out the bad and the good. And there has been way more bad than good. You just want it to be rainbows and sunshine so you block out the bad.


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Your outlook is simply sad.  Way more bad than good?   That's idiotic.  And completely devoid of reason or any semblance of foresight or understanding.  Beat my chest?  Block out the bad?  You clearly don't know me or my history very well, and to those who do, you're now not only negative and idiotic; you're also ignorant.  You let me know when you see and point out the good in anything...BEFORE you've had to eat crow.  Until then?  You're a rube pot calling the kettle black making accusations of blocking one thing out in favor of another.   Educate yourself before making idiotic comments....especially about me.  You have no idea what you're talking about and don't understand what you see.  Unless you're choosing not to see it, and it's one or the other.  Let's start there.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Your outlook is simply sad.  Way more bad than good?   That's idiotic.  And completely devoid of reason or any semblance of foresight or understanding.  Beat my chest?  Block out the bad?  You clearly don't know me or my history very well, and to those who do, you're now not only negative and idiotic; you're also ignorant.  You let me know when you see and point out the good in anything...BEFORE you've had to eat crow.  Until then?  You're a rube pot calling the kettle black making accusations of blocking one thing out in favor of another.   Educate yourself before making idiotic comments....especially about me.  You have no idea what you're talking about and don't understand what you see.  Unless you're choosing not to see it, and it's one or the other.  Let's start there.

Well I guess you can go check another post where I said we should make the tourney in year 4? And should be expected to win the B1G if Smith, Durham and TJD all return for year 4? Is that not positive enough for you? As of right now, Archie has done nothing. And yes, there has been way more bad than good. Yes we beat Michigan State twice, we beat Michigan, we beat Marquette and you can even put the Notre Dame game from his first season with how the team fought to win. At the same time, you have to look at the bad. Which I listed earlier. Because we have gotten our butts kicked way too often or just took the floor without a single player looking like they cared. Players not progressing, terrible offenses and terrible shooting. Some of his recruiting is wait and see. Leal seems to have adjusted his jump shot for the better and closer to a Klay Thompson which is something I wanted to see. Hopefully we get Garcia to continue having some great length and bigs for the future. My biggest problem with Archie is his offense. Simply because it is terrible and hasn’t ever been successful. And it isn’t setup to be incredibly successful. He’d honestly be better off just scrapping it and going to a simple motion offense that mixed in some other simple offense like the flex and Princeton. His is based off of ball screens over and over again. The problem the past two seasons with that is that the screener, normally Morgan or Smith, was incredibly lazy at setting a screen or released too early. Can Archie make Indiana a decent team and a program that has some pop ups as a top 15 team? Of course. It happens for plenty of schools at random. That’s where Indiana has been the last decade. Maybe you should read what I actually type. I don’t know if you just assume what I’m saying or just read everything I say wanting to badly disagree with it but you definitely don’t read it correctly. People like me love eating crow, it’s delicious.
And remember one thing, everyone is ignorant. Including you. No one knows everything.


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[mdn82]

 

 

 

 

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Yeah I wanted that first pic to be what they saw when looking at the thread.

[southernindianahoosier2]

10 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Why?   Why is this year the key year?  The general trend of the program is more positive than it's been in years; and this is only the second season any of his players have played at Indiana.   I think they WILL make the tournament and surprise a lot of people, but Holtmann and Mack walked into different situations than Archie did, and if we agree (and many did) the best strategy for Archie and his system is to get old and stay old, doesn't it make some sense to let his roster GET old first??   This "win now or else" thing is exhausting. He'll win....some of you may just have to be a little patient before you get what you want.

The general trend of the program is more positive than its last three 18-16, 16-15 and 19-16 record seasons. But that's comparing IU in a vacuum to the final year of Crean and two bad Archie Years. Its like being the best looking person in a room full of lepers, it doesn't hold much weight.. You need to compare them to the peer group. You clearly have never done any sort of analysis before. If you had ever done so you would be comparing your Archie Stock to the entire market. Specifically, look at precedent transactions of coaches such as Mack and Holtmann to get a micro viewpoint, and then expand further to consider all NCAA division 1 coaches for a macro look. 

 

Chris Holtmann took over at OSU where they missed the tournament in 15-16 (NIT) and 16-17 (No Postseason)

Mack took over at Louisville from an Interim David Padgett who made it to the NIT, and he coaches in the ACC

Chris Beard took over a program that went to 1 NCAA tournament in its last 11 years.

How is Archie's situation any different than those around him?

But hey... Archie is poised to do better than missing the tournament, so by that measure, he's clearly better than the others. 

 

 

[Honkyman]

Yes, the offense still looks a bit lethargic. But why not wait for the season to unfold bit before diving into gloom and doom mode? I'm a native Hoosier living in Washington, DC now. I see how the local professional baseball team became World Champions this season after losing its super star to free agency. The Washington Nationals were a better team this year because it had much better chemistry after Bryce Harper left. And, his departure opened opportunities for other players, including younger ones. I'm not saying the Hoosiers will win the 2020 NCAA national championship. But losing Romeo Langford and Juwan Morgan while adding TJD, Armaan Franklin, and Joey Brunk is likely to be a net gain. Plus, the loss of Romeo and Juwan will give returning players more of a chance to shine. Give it a chance. BTW, Fred Glass hired the best basketball coach he could get--the only one of the available top coaches who was willing to come to Bloomington.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Yes, the offense still looks a bit lethargic. But why not wait for the season to unfold bit before diving into gloom and doom mode? I'm a native Hoosier living in Washington, DC now. I see how the local professional baseball team became World Champions this season after losing its super star to free agency. The Washington Nationals were a better team this year because it had much better chemistry after Bryce Harper left. And, his departure opened opportunities for other players, including younger ones. I'm not saying the Hoosiers will win the 2020 NCAA national championship. But losing Romeo Langford and Juwan Morgan while adding TJD, Armaan Franklin, and Joey Brunk is likely to be a net gain. Plus, the loss of Romeo and Juwan will give returning players more of a chance to shine. Give it a chance. BTW, Fred Glass hired the best basketball coach he could get--the only one of the available top coaches who was willing to come to Bloomington.

Bryce Harper was also incredibly overrated and the Nationals went on a miracle run. I’ll wait and see if the offense is any good, but my prediction is that it will still struggle and that Archie’s system will continue to not work. I don’t care if you have shooters or not, his system really only works well if you have a dominant scorer. It’s the same type of system(not a copy but it’s close) as Houston uses for James Harden, OKC used for Westbrook or Cleveland used for LeBron. We obviously don’t have any scorers like that and Romeo was hurt last season as our only wing scorer. Will Green make that jump? Will Phinisee? If you go back and watch the Gannon game, just watch closely at the ball screens, they aren’t great and don’t do much. Majority of the time it just looks like the players are just going through the motions of the offense rather than reading and reacting to the defense. Maybe Archie is just waiting, but he really doesn’t have time to wait. Real progress needs to be shown this season. We can’t have so many stinkers like we’ve have the past two seasons. It is unacceptable.


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[Alford Bailey]

11 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Why?   Why is this year the key year?  The general trend of the program is more positive than it's been in years; and this is only the second season any of his players have played at Indiana.   I think they WILL make the tournament and surprise a lot of people, but Holtmann and Mack walked into different situations than Archie did, and if we agree (and many did) the best strategy for Archie and his system is to get old and stay old, doesn't it make some sense to let his roster GET old first??   This "win now or else" thing is exhausting. He'll win....some of you may just have to be a little patient before you get what you want.

You live in your own little unrealistic world. Leave 1985 behind and join the rest of us in 2019. The real world where coaches dont get 5-6 years to make a tournament at schools like IU and where kids will not sit the bench for 2 years to be part of an "old' system. Archie NEEDS to have some success THIS year.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

You live in your own little unrealistic world. Leave 1985 behind and join the rest of us in 2019. The real world where coaches dont get 5-6 years to make a tournament at schools like IU and where kids will not sit the bench for 2 years to be part of an "old' system. Archie NEEDS to have some success THIS year.

I doubt Garcia will be signing up to wait for his Junior season while Marquette is telling him he will start day 1.


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[HoosierAloha]

I doubt Garcia will be signing up to wait for his Junior season while Marquette is telling him he will start day 1.


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Just wanted to tell you thanks for continuing to prove people right after they call you out. It’s pretty comical.


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[coonhounds]

Someone link the indy star article that was just released I dont know how

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[rcbowla]

Just want to say I appreciate all of the posters here. Don't always like what you say or your delivery but appreciate it none the less. How fun would a message board be if all it's content was positivity and agreance? Not much. How fun would it be if all of it's content was negativity and despair? Not much. Point is rather than attacking posters for their general posting manner how about just appreciating them for making this an interesting and entertaining forum? Those of you who just can't stand seeing one side or the other could just simply not provoke the other. Seriously it's like dealing with children, keep your hands to yourself and mouths shut. I'd say 75% of the non-sensical bickering that goes on here could simply be avoided if rather than people feeling like they have to piss farther than the next guy they just let them post and not provoke more. Finally, how many times have any of you seen one poster change another poster's view by being a condescending prick? Gonna guess zero. Wanna fight? Go find a person wearing a Purdue shirt. Again I appreciate all of you but mah gawd sometimes it's just silly.

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[coonhounds]

Just want to say I appreciate all of the posters here. Don't always like what you say or your delivery but appreciate it none the less. How fun would a message board be if all it's content was positivity and agreance? Not much. How fun would it be if all of it's content was negativity and despair? Not much. Point is rather than attacking posters for their general posting manner how about just appreciating them for making this an interesting and entertaining forum? Those of you who just can't stand seeing one side or the other could just simply not provoke the other. Seriously it's like dealing with children, keep your hands to yourself and mouths shut. I'd say 75% of the non-sensical bickering that goes on here could simply be avoided if rather than people feeling like they have to piss farther than the next guy they just let them post and not provoke more. Finally, how many times have any of you seen one poster change another poster's view by being a condescending prick? Gonna guess zero. Wanna fight? Go find a person wearing a Purdue shirt. Again I appreciate all of you but mah gawd sometimes it's just silly.

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Wow excellent post and I agree 100 percent. I think though the argument will be is the fun is arguing your point against the opposition. I remember last summer through the start of the season everyone was pretty much positive and on the same side until basketball started then it went down hill after about 5 games lol

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[Old Friend]

9 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

You live in your own little unrealistic world. Leave 1985 behind and join the rest of us in 2019. The real world where coaches dont get 5-6 years to make a tournament at schools like IU and where kids will not sit the bench for 2 years to be part of an "old' system. Archie NEEDS to have some success THIS year.

You seem to live in a world where everything has to go your way or you whine that it needs to change immediately.  That someone needs to lose his job, despite reality, because YOU aren't happy.  All about you.  All about satisfying your current whims, whatever they may be.   All about crying in your crib and expecting to be fed within 10 seconds or you just cry louder until you get what you want.   You let me know how frequently the revolving door is successful.   I'll be more than happy to close my mouth when you can do that with even a modicum of consistency.

It would serve you very well to take circumstances into consideration before you hold someone accountable to whatever results you deem successful.  Nobody said Archie gets 5-6 years to make the tournament.  Nobody said he shouldn't continue to have more success each season.  But damn, dude.  You act like Indiana was in great shape when he took over and somehow he's failed.  

As if DeRon Davis didn't rupture his achilles two years ago.  Like Colin Hartman didn't miss a bunch of time with injury.  Like Zach McRoberts WASN'T 5th on the team in minutes played (yeah,....we were THAT bad in terms of talent).   Once Davis got hurt, I'll let you tell me how he was expected to play with Big Ten big men with Juwon Morgan, Freddie McSwain (who might be 6'6"), Clifton Moore, and Tim Priller.  I'll let you tell me how that team was supposed to gel learning a system 180* from Crean's and without a single one of his recruits.

Last season was far better, especially late, but Phinisee still got hurt and really missed over a month...by far IU's best ball handler.  Green missed 7 games.  Davis missed 5 and hadn't regained any quickness yet.  Langford missed 3 games.  McBob, who IU counted on the year prior missed 9.   The improvement was there even if the results didn't please you yet.  They didn't make me happy either; but are you really naive enough to see what's going on and tell me he has to do ______  THIS season or he should lose his job?  To who?  And what would that person do differently??   Mike Davis won right away.  How'd that work out for you....in your precious "right NOW century of the 2000's?"   How do you think the Cleveland Browns feel about firing Bill Belichick because he didn't win quickly enough?  Mike Krzyzewski had a .553 winning % at Army and then losing records 2 of his first 3 seasons at Duke.  Think they should have fired him?   

This has nothing to do with an era.  It has everything to do with impatient brats having zero idea how to build a long term succesful college basketball program.   

[rcbowla]

Wow excellent post and I agree 100 percent. I think though the argument will be is the fun is arguing your point against the opposition. I remember last summer through the start of the season everyone was pretty much positive and on the same side until basketball started then it went down hill after about 5 games lol

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I get simple debate but even then at some point it has to come to an "agree to disagree". Why should the same argument, not debate, go on for days or even weeks? At some point you have to accept that no stance is changing and find the next healthy topic to debate. People getting personal and shitty with one another isn't necessary. Also constantly pointing out that someone is always negative/positive is about as exhausting as the negativity/positivity itself.

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[Alford Bailey]

19 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

You seem to live in a world where everything has to go your way or you whine that it needs to change immediately.  That someone needs to lose his job, despite reality, because YOU aren't happy.  All about you.  All about satisfying your current whims, whatever they may be.   All about crying in your crib and expecting to be fed within 10 seconds or you just cry louder until you get what you want.   You let me know how frequently the revolving door is successful.   I'll be more than happy to close my mouth when you can do that with even a modicum of consistency.

It would serve you very well to take circumstances into consideration before you hold someone accountable to whatever results you deem successful.  Nobody said Archie gets 5-6 years to make the tournament.  Nobody said he shouldn't continue to have more success each season.  But damn, dude.  You act like Indiana was in great shape when he took over and somehow he's failed.  

As if DeRon Davis didn't rupture his achilles two years ago.  Like Colin Hartman didn't miss a bunch of time with injury.  Like Zach McRoberts WASN'T 5th on the team in minutes played (yeah,....we were THAT bad in terms of talent).   Once Davis got hurt, I'll let you tell me how he was expected to play with Big Ten big men with Juwon Morgan, Freddie McSwain (who might be 6'6"), Clifton Moore, and Tim Priller.  I'll let you tell me how that team was supposed to gel learning a system 180* from Crean's and without a single one of his recruits.

Last season was far better, especially late, but Phinisee still got hurt and really missed over a month...by far IU's best ball handler.  Green missed 7 games.  Davis missed 5 and hadn't regained any quickness yet.  Langford missed 3 games.  McBob, who IU counted on the year prior missed 9.   The improvement was there even if the results didn't please you yet.  They didn't make me happy either; but are you really naive enough to see what's going on and tell me he has to do ______  THIS season or he should lose his job?  To who?  And what would that person do differently??   Mike Davis won right away.  How'd that work out for you....in your precious "right NOW century of the 2000's?"   How do you think the Cleveland Browns feel about firing Bill Belichick because he didn't win quickly enough?  Mike Krzyzewski had a .553 winning % at Army and then losing records 2 of his first 3 seasons at Duke.  Think they should have fired him?   

This has nothing to do with an era.  It has everything to do with impatient brats having zero idea how to build a long term succesful college basketball program.   

LOL! Did it take you all afternoon?

[HinnyHoosier]

LOL! Did it take you all afternoon?

I doubt it. Old Friend comes across as quite cerebral. Know your opponent.


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[Hollywood Mike Miranda]

15 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

 

I doubt it. Old Friend comes across as quite cerebral. Know your opponent.


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Dude got majorly roasted... yikes! Might wanna sit the next few plays out, AB. That was a world class internet a$$ whoopin'. :)