2017-18 Season Expectations

[Bailey7878]

Aside from the won-lost predictions there were a lot of comments about improved fundamentals, good defense, half time adjustments, etc but now the narrative seems to be "what do you expect from these rotten kids".
i hope CAM works out, and it is too early to judge, but he certainly does not seem to have the team fully behind him.  As I have said before the lack of consistent effort is among the most disturbing things going on.  This is not a "CAM was a mistake" post but it does seem appropriate to at least say if the season so far has been a pleasant surprise or a bit of a disappointment. Right now I would  have to go with disappointment....and not just because of the W-L record.

It's pretty predictable people did the same thing with crean. You dont know what he inherited blah blah blah.When expectations fall below what we expected the excuse machines come out. This is not a fire Archie Miller post so don't start with that people. But the season has been a massive disappointment and yes I did not expect this.

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[cthomas]

8 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

It's pretty predictable people did the same thing with crean. You dont know what he inherited blah blah blah.When expectations fall below what we expected the excuse machines come out. This is not a fire Archie Miller post so don't start with that people. But the season has been a massive disappointment and yes I did not expect this.

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I'm definitely disappointed with our record and our effort. I hoped CAM would be able to coach this team into over achievers and we would see a team that was greater than the sum of the parts. Instead, they are less...much like last year. And yet in spite of all that, if we were shooting a reasonable three point percentage the conversation, and the record, would probably be different. I think we now know that Coach Miller can't walk on water or work miracles and this transition is going to be made the hard way. I like his coaching philosophy and I believe it will work out....just not as fast as I hoped.

[Brass Cannon]

This group of kids just doesn't work for Archie's system. His system requires basketball players with at least decent basketball IQs. 

He got athletes who occasionally play basketball and in some cases aren't that athletic. 

He retained the roster out of necessity but frankly I hope we can get 3 grad transfers and show some people the door. 

That being said if our freshmen next year aren't giving effort or starting over people not giving effort then that falls squarely on Archie. 

Honestly which is worse having a clean slate like Crean or a roster full of players who just won't work. Short term clean slate for sure. Years 2-4 I think the case could be made that Archie has the rougher situation. 

[Bailey7878]

This group of kids just doesn't work for Archie's system. His system requires basketball players with at least decent basketball IQs. 
He got athletes who occasionally play basketball and in some cases aren't that athletic. 
He retained the roster out of necessity but frankly I hope we can get 3 grad transfers and show some people the door. 
That being said if our freshmen next year aren't giving effort or starting over people not giving effort then that falls squarely on Archie. 
Honestly which is worse having a clean slate like Crean or a roster full of players who just won't work. Short term clean slate for sure. Years 2-4 I think the case could be made that Archie has the rougher situation. 

I predict we will have 4 grants to give this spring and people were worried earlier we would not have a grant for Romeo! At least 2 more players will leave imo.

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[BGleas]

I didn't post in this thread, but did post in similar threads in other places. I was never high on this team. I'd be lying if I said I thought we would lose to ISU and FW, but I also never thought this team would be very good. I was hopeful Archie could get them competing by the end of the year (still can happen) and see improvement, but never thought we'd be that good. 

IMO, as I felt coming into the season, the talent just wasn't there as a collective group. There are clearly some talented kids, but the pieces simply don't fit. I felt our guard play was too erratic, and that we had no shooters capable of consistently knocking down shots. There is/was zero length on the perimeter or wing, and our interior lacked depth. There are no athletes on this team, and nobody that can just flat get buckets when you need it. 

It's hard to win with no length on the perimeter or wing, nobody that can consistently hit 3's and/or nobody that can get to the rim. 

Again, clearly we have talent. Morgan is an emerging player, RoJo is a 1,000 point scorer, etc., etc., but the pieces fit horribly in terms of the guards and wings especially. In terms of big, again Morgan has been really good, but matched with Davis we have two bigs that need to operate on the block and neither can shoot, and neither are great athletes, and then match that with a backcourt that struggles to shoot and lacks athletes, and it's a bad mix. 

I'm not trying to act like we should just fold up for the season and there's nothing Archie can do, but I never thought the talent was there too be all that good. Again though, I also never thought we'd love to ISU and FW, especially not by 20 at home. There is a clear disconnect with the players and staff right now, and Archie needs to fix it ASAP or things could go bad. He can't lose momentum to the point where the local recruits (Langford, Brooks, TJD) don't want to come here. A new coach should bring enthusiasm and optimism. I'm also a bit puzzled as to why he hasn't developed Smith more in game action. I think he could really be helping this team with his length and athleticism. 

Now, I have seen coaching moves from Archie that have me very encouraged. I'm not worried about the X's and O's with him. IU has carved up some zones this year. When was the last time we saw that? There have been adjustments to the lineup (sitting Davis for much of the ND game, starting McRoberts the second half against Youngstown) and strategy (doubling Bagley against Duke & Colson against ND, and other things) that have impacted games. The defense, while still not great, is clearly better. We've run some flex action and other sets that we never ran under Crean in the halfcourt. 

I can still see the vision, and I think it will be benefited greatly by having a real point guard (Phinisee) and I think Archie's system will look a lot better with size and length (Anderson, Hunter, Smith) on the perimeter and wings. But unfortunately we may have to wait for those guys to develop. The momentum being slowed stinks though, because Romeo could greatly impact the timeline. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I honestly don't agree with the first part. The second part about simplifying things, I'm not as sure. Basketball systems aren't that complicated. Calipari has a new team virtually every single year to learn his system. I think Archie will be playing to win 100% not trying to build freshmen and such. If Freshmen are playing its because Archie thinks that gives us the best chance to win now. He won't be playing for future seasons.
 
I think if this season is a relative bust, the blame will fall on the players mostly for just not being good enough (which is very possible).
 
Archie will then have a window of time to get his guys together and win.
 
 
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Yup!


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[mdn82]

Yeah just browsed some quickly. Most everyone expected 9-9 or 10-8 and sneak into the tourney.

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Where was this at? Only a handful of people did. You guessed 21 wins. I saw a 22 win. Top 7 in B1G. A couple of make the tournaments. Most were predicting this season being what it is. Most weren’t worried about wins and losses since in August they were aware of what we were up against. Then their teenage version of ADD took over and our Burger Boys didn’t play up to par.


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[Class of '66 Old Fart]

On 7/25/2017 at 3:52 PM, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

I think we'll squeak our way into the Big Dance but won't have the horses to make much noise.  

Let this be a lesson to you all; don't take investment advice from an Old Fart.

[Bailey7878]

Where was this at? Only a handful of people did. You guessed 21 wins. I saw a 22 win. Top 7 in B1G. A couple of make the tournaments. Most were predicting this season being what it is. Most weren’t worried about wins and losses since in August they were aware of what we were up against. Then their teenage version of ADD took over and our Burger Boys didn’t play up to par.


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I dont have time to read through all the pages as you may have done. I browsed three or four. I just doubt people expected an 8-7 record at this point and two beatdowns to mid majors at home. I would of thought 10-5 or 11-4.

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[dbmhoosier]

People really need to just step off the ledge.  These transitions take time.  Look at Roy's first season at UNC and that was with 3 top 10 players.  Gregg Marshall did wonders at Winthrop but look at his first couple seasons at Wichita.   Look at Pitino's first season at UL.

[coonhounds]

People really need to just step off the ledge.  These transitions take time.  Look at Roy's first season at UNC and that was with 3 top 10 players.  Gregg Marshall did wonders at Winthrop but look at his first couple seasons at Wichita.   Look at Pitino's first season at UL.

Yep have to be patient. Give them a chance we will know in a couple years

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[Lebowski]

Well, after half way through the season I pretty much expected to be where they are.  I didn't expect horrible losses to ISU and IPFW but I did expect a Jekyll and Hyde type of basketball team.  This team is playing like a team that is learning a completely new system with a completely new coaching staff teaching it to them.  I really think next year we'll see a lot more consistency on the court. 

I think it's possible they finish in the middle of the pack this season but realistically I don't see that happening.  If they finish below .500 and at the bottom of the conference I'm content because I really expected that at the beginning of the season (last year they finished 7-11 with 3 professional players on the roster).  If they finish .500, I'm happy.  If they finish above .500, I'm ecstatic!  

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Lebowski

[JSHoosier]

I didn't have high expectations, at least not what I'd consider high.  By this point I expected continued improvement; fewer lapses on defense, better than Tom Crean level ball control, consistent effort.  I did not expect to get punked by Fort Wayne at home, and I would've been okay with a close W over ISU.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

We've gotten none of that.  The same defensive lapses are happening just as frequently, still too many times when ball control is Crean-esque, and effort is questionable at best.  After getting humiliated by Fort Wayne I wanted to see multiple changes to the starting lineup, no good options on the bench but we're already getting whooped with our starters so we're losing nothing; and we didn't.

I've seen things I liked; flashes of good ball control, flashes of an actual half court offense, and a zone offense approach far better than Crean's "what is that?  they can do that?  I don't know what to do".  The rest of alarming, and at least some of what I've mentioned is teachable.

I don't think this is unreasonable, and even by those reasonable expectations this season is a disappointment.

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I didn't have high expectations, at least not what I'd consider high.  By this point I expected continued improvement; fewer lapses on defense, better than Tom Crean level ball control, consistent effort.  I did not expect to get punked by Fort Wayne at home, and I would've been okay with a close W over ISU.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

We've gotten none of that.  The same defensive lapses are happening just as frequently, still too many times when ball control is Crean-esque, and effort is questionable at best.  After getting humiliated by Fort Wayne I wanted to see multiple changes to the starting lineup, no good options on the bench but we're already getting whooped with our starters so we're losing nothing; and we didn't.

I've seen things I liked; flashes of good ball control, flashes of an actual half court offense, and a zone offense approach far better than Crean's "what is that?  they can do that?  I don't know what to do".  The rest of alarming, and at least some of what I've mentioned is teachable.

I don't think this is unreasonable, and even by those reasonable expectations this season is a disappointment.

 

I think we should be pleased if we can eventually state that for a season-long, final assessment, we were a "two steps forward, one step back" team.

 

[JSHoosier]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I think we should be pleased if we can eventually state that for a season-long, final assessment, we were a "two steps forward, one step back" team.

 

This team has a lot of ground to make up to be "two steps forward, one step back", right now they're closer to one step forward and three steps back.

[Bailey7878]

People really need to just step off the ledge.  These transitions take time.  Look at Roy's first season at UNC and that was with 3 top 10 players.  Gregg Marshall did wonders at Winthrop but look at his first couple seasons at Wichita.   Look at Pitino's first season at UL.

Step of the ledge never gets old does it.

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[Bailey7878]

 
I think we should be pleased if we can eventually state that for a season-long, final assessment, we were a "two steps forward, one step back" team.
 

We got a long ways to go to get to that stage.

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[Alford Bailey]

This season is a hell of a lot worse than I expected. Flat out embarrassing at times. But, we just have to trust the process now. Hopefully evaluations are already being made by the staff about who stays and goes. Big changes need to be made to this roster and lets see how it plays out.

[dbmhoosier]

45 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

UNC went 19-11 in Roy’s first season and made the NCAA tournament. He won the national title the following year.

They were .500 in conference and a bubble team.  Again that was with 3 top 10 players.  And yes they won the title the next season with essentially the same roster.  That's my point that transitions take time. 

[jmsgws]

2 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

They were .500 in conference and a bubble team.  Again that was with 3 top 10 players.  And yes they won the title the next season with essentially the same roster.  That's my point that transitions take time. 

I would be ecstatic with a one year turn around.  

But with my glass is empty view in regards to IUBB the last couple of years.  What happens in year 3 or 4?