TOM CREAN FIRED

[Trish]

If it's not Stevens, i'm not interested. 

 

EDIT:

 

 

Looking at our schedule. It doesn't look good for us in terms of challenging schedules.. We only play MSU onces and Purdue once. We're going to need to beat one of those to make the dance. 

 

Notre Dame next week is a must win in terms of building up our resume. 

 

If we lose to Notre Dame and end up in the middle of the B1G,i don't see us making the Dance, which means Crean's seat should be open to Brad Stevens. 

[Str8Hoosiers]

Because they could have played for the Heat and made several more million? How is that not a pay cut? Not to mention he doesn't pay income tax on games only in Florida (and other no income tax states). He files tax returns for each state he plays in, that's how income works with the NBA. Also Florida is making money elsewhere with higher taxes for example property tax which LBJ is probably paying a hefty tax for

 Not paying Income tax for 1/2 your salary is a huge difference when the salary is that high. (1/2 home games).

 

Also while they do have to pay state income taxes to other states it is only at that other states rate... If you play in a state with a high Tax rate (Cali for example is 13.3%) then you always pay 13.3% on your salary no matter where you play the games... In Florida you ONLY pay the other states rate. ** Again this is a very big difference.

 

I see both sides of this "off topic" argument.... I agree that they could have tried to get MAX contracts in Florida so you could perceive this as a paycut... however they didn't already have pay there so I can see Brass Cannon's point that they did not take a pay cut if they are bringing home more money with the new contract than they were with the higher contract in another state!

[Uspshoosier]

If it's not Stevens, i'm not interested.

EDIT:


Looking at our schedule. It doesn't look good for us in terms of challenging schedules.. We only play MSU onces and Purdue once. We're going to need to beat one of those to make the dance.

Notre Dame next week is a must win in terms of building up our resume.

If we lose to Notre Dame and end up in the middle of the B1G,i don't see us making the Dance, which means Crean's seat should be open to Brad Stevens.

we could lose both games to Purdue and mich st and still make the tournament. In my opinion it would be how many top 100 rpi wins we would have. Outside of Purdue and mich st I think Iowa, Michigan, Maryland, Ohio st, northwestern will all be top 100 rpi or ken Pom teams. As long as we beat some of those teams and don't lose to sub 100 rpi teams iu will make the tourney just not the seed we were thinking at the beginning of the season.
Creighton is a top 100 win as of today and none of the 3 losses are concidered bad( I still do) in the eyes of committee, they'll are to top 100 team

[Feathery]

If it's not Stevens, i'm not interested.

EDIT:


Looking at our schedule. It doesn't look good for us in terms of challenging schedules.. We only play MSU onces and Purdue once. We're going to need to beat one of those to make the dance.

Notre Dame next week is a must win in terms of building up our resume.

If we lose to Notre Dame and end up in the middle of the B1G,i don't see us making the Dance, which means Crean's seat should be open to Brad Stevens.

So if Stevens says no, you would keep Crean?

Say Stevens won't talk until there is an opening. So you don't fire Crean bc you don't have an answer from Stevens?

[Feathery]

we could lose both games to Purdue and mich st and still make the tournament. In my opinion it would be how many top 100 rpi wins we would have. Outside of Purdue and mich st I think Iowa, Michigan, Maryland, Ohio st, northwestern will all be top 100 rpi or ken Pom teams. As long as we beat some of those teams and don't lose to sub 100 rpi teams iu will make the tourney just not the seed we were thinking at the beginning of the season.
Creighton is a top 100 win as of today and none of the 3 losses are concidered bad( I still do) in the eyes of committee, they'll are to top 100 team

We only play Purdue, MSU, and Maryland once each. It's the easiest big ten schedule, possibly ever, for IU. If Crean is middle of the pack in a year with an easy schedule and 3 McD All Americans, then he should resign and put everyone out of their misery.

[Bowhunter]

Not really in the B1G

Why can't a coach grow from his time in the big 10?
He seems to be doing just fine in the big 12.

[Uspshoosier]

We only play Purdue, MSU, and Maryland once each. It's the easiest big ten schedule, possibly ever, for IU. If Crean is middle of the pack in a year with an easy schedule and 3 McD All Americans, then he should resign and put everyone out of their misery.

agree I was just pointing out we could still make the tournament even if we lost to Michigan st and Purdue

[Uwe Robb]

It doesn't matter if they could've sign all 3 or not that is completely irrelevant. All 3 players took less than a Max contract to play together, therefore they all took a PAY CUT. There's no other explanation for what they did.

I believe he is saying that the players were factoring in their Net pay after taxes since Ohio's state tax is 5.25% and FL does not have a state tax. There is a little wiggle room. Now with that said, for that 5.25% to make a difference it would only affect the 41 home games and any other games played in TX, TN, FL or AZ I think (other states with 0% state tax? On a $25 million annual salary you are looking at well under $1 million in savings for going to a tax free income state. So the gap between the Max contract and the contract that these players took would have to be within $1.5 million per year just to break even.

 

Also could factor in cost of living and property taxes and the Ohio contract would still probably look better. I could argue endorsements are better in the Miami area than the Akron area, but I think Lebron is pretty widespread nationally. He could probably sell sneakers and sprite from down here in Evansville, IN.

 

(This tax break was talked about at nauseam with Dwight Howard when he was supposed to resign with Lakers and went to Houston instead. While CA tax rate is even higher 6.5% I still don't think it is that huge of difference in their take home pay to not go ahead and ask for a Max contract.)

[Feathery]

agree I was just pointing out we could still make the tournament even if we lost to Michigan st and Purdue

We definitely could. Not sure if we will. As easy as thebjanuary schedule is, the February schedule is much tougher. Historically Creans teams peak early and falter come the end of January/early February. That's why it's so concerning we are playing so poorly right now. Thomas Bryant hasn't even hit the freshman wall yet.

[GnarlyNormEllenberger]

Marshall is not a home run hire.  Marshall is basically a system coach who had superior talent for a while and made a name for himself.   Which sounds awfully familiar.  They're 4-4 this season in case anybody's looking, and their current RPI is 81. (They did beat UNLV, though....hhmmmmmm)    I'm not sure how I feel about Archie Miller.  Maybe.

 

The bottom line is simply that the solution is a one man list.  Talking about anyone else is a "settle" unless he says there's no way he's coming any time soon.  If Brad Stevens says he's not coming, we do significant diligence to find the next great coach, and it's not going to be somebody obvious.  Crean was a name who'd had some success and was in a smaller conference at a smaller school, so psychology says a move up for him is a good hire and a win for everybody.   We're finding that to be false, so that tells me our next hire is not going to be and should not be what amounts to a repeat of the last one.

If Stevens says no...not coming.  The next few names I'd like to see (and I haven't done enough homework on any of them, but like the idea of :

 

Sean Miller (I guess he'd be my "obvious" pick if not Stevens)

Archie Miller (maybe)

Bryce Drew - Indiana kid, son of a really good coach, and a great personality.  Has won his conference 3 of 4 seasons, and won 75% of conference games

Chris Mack - think he's an up and comer.  Just my opinion, but he's recruited well locally

If we need a bridge to Stevens?  Bob McKillop.

 

All I want for Christmas is.......

Curious, because I have respected your opinions and knowledge of the game since you were on Scout...

 

You really believe that guys like Sean Miller, Archie Miller or Chris Mack would be much of a step up from Crean? I know that Sean Miller can recruit and has a nice record at Arizona, but I've never looked at him and thought "there's a good, in-game coach" or "he's got his team prepared" (although it's hard to quantify that sort of thing.) His brother at Dayton has a small sample size and I have the same concerns about him as I do his brother. Mack capitalized off of Sean Miller's success at Xavier, but ever since then he's got a resume that is similar to Crean's. Not saying that none of these guys could have success here, but I think there's every bit as good of a chance we see Crean-like results.

 

As you said, it's a one man list. No doubt. He'd bring sustained success here. Conference championships. Conference contender nearly every year. Probably a banner or two. I am confident of those predictions and I don't normally make predictions like that. But A LOT of things would have to fall our way for that to happen as we all know.

 

Personally, I'd love to get an "in-game" coach. The ol' X's and O's type. In my opinion, IU basketball is still an elite brand. I think you could hire a chimpanzee and it would still bring in Top 25 recruiting classes. Also, fans will show up to watch a good, fundamental, hard-working product. We don't need a cheerleader or PR man to lead us. (The big heads just scream gimmick to me.) IU basketball still sells itself, enough. Therefore, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if a bright mind from a smaller school would ever be looked at. Your Bob McKillop idea isn't necessarily a bad one in my eyes. There may be a few others like him worth a look. Not necessarily sexy, but know how to coach a basketball team.

 

But I also believe that some IU guys should at least be considered. As we have found out, there's a big difference between SAYING they understand what Indiana Basketball is all about and actually abiding by those standards. No, I don't have anyone in mind, but I have a hard time believing that someone like Dane Fife couldn't at least have had as much success with us as we've had in the last few years.

[Uwe Robb]

I keep saying his name because I have some personal experience with him, but I know he will never even get a look at IU. Still I will say his name and hope somebody gives me some props one day when he does take over a big time program.

 

*Ray Harper*

 

Great Coach.

 

2 - NAIA National Championships and another Runner-up in only 3 years as a NAIA coach.

 

2 - D2 National Championships

4 - D2 Natinoal Runner-up

accomplished these 6 Championship game appearances in 9 seasons as a D2 coach

 

2 - Tournament appearances w/ 7 point loss to #1 Kansas in 2013

3 - 20+ wins every year he has been in D1.

 

Again, I know that this will never happen, but look at his current team. They are 4-4 and the team is very mediocre. Revisit this post at the end of the season and tell me if their team got better or worse by March.

[Feathery]

To piggyback off the above post. I can't say I'm for or against Dane Fife as head coach. While he knows IU basketball and he knows defense, does he have enough experience to have the X's and O's to compete with an Izzo? He may or he may not, it's a gamble.

There is a precedent of a coach with little head coaching experience landing a job at a blueblood and having success. In 1988, Kansas hired a North Carolina assistant Roy Williams, who had only been a head coach at the high school level. He was also only 38 years of age at the time. That turned out to be a tremendous success in my opinion.

Dane Fife had some success at IPFW and has been learning from Izzo, Like Roy with Dean Smith. Dane is Also 36 years of age and will be 37 next summer, close to the same age as Roy taking over Kansas.

I used to dismiss the Fife talk as being way premature. I'm now neutral on him coming and can see both sides of an arguement.

Maybe it is time to bring back a IU guy if Stevens says no.

[Old Friend]

Curious, because I have respected your opinions and knowledge of the game since you were on Scout...

 

You really believe that guys like Sean Miller, Archie Miller or Chris Mack would be much of a step up from Crean? I know that Sean Miller can recruit and has a nice record at Arizona, but I've never looked at him and thought "there's a good, in-game coach" or "he's got his team prepared" (although it's hard to quantify that sort of thing.) His brother at Dayton has a small sample size and I have the same concerns about him as I do his brother. Mack capitalized off of Sean Miller's success at Xavier, but ever since then he's got a resume that is similar to Crean's. Not saying that none of these guys could have success here, but I think there's every bit as good of a chance we see Crean-like results.

 

As you said, it's a one man list. No doubt. He'd bring sustained success here. Conference championships. Conference contender nearly every year. Probably a banner or two. I am confident of those predictions and I don't normally make predictions like that. But A LOT of things would have to fall our way for that to happen as we all know.

 

Personally, I'd love to get an "in-game" coach. The ol' X's and O's type. In my opinion, IU basketball is still an elite brand. I think you could hire a chimpanzee and it would still bring in Top 25 recruiting classes. Also, fans will show up to watch a good, fundamental, hard-working product. We don't need a cheerleader or PR man to lead us. (The big heads just scream gimmick to me.) IU basketball still sells itself, enough. Therefore, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if a bright mind from a smaller school would ever be looked at. Your Bob McKillop idea isn't necessarily a bad one in my eyes. There may be a few others like him worth a look. Not necessarily sexy, but know how to coach a basketball team.

 

But I also believe that some IU guys should at least be considered. As we have found out, there's a big difference between SAYING they understand what Indiana Basketball is all about and actually abiding by those standards. No, I don't have anyone in mind, but I have a hard time believing that someone like Dane Fife couldn't at least have had as much success with us as we've had in the last few years.

Great question.  I actually thought about this before I answered it because you bring up some nice points.  I like Mack.  Just something about him I really like.  I can't explain it other to say I met him a couple of times, and was impressed.  I also like how his teams always seem to find the weaknesses in opponents and exploit them; and it seems they get a lot of good shots for the guys who should be taking them.  You know who else I like?  Chris Holtmann.  Which means I'd like Michael Lewis who has experience under both Stevens and Holtmann.  He's probably not ready for IU yet, but you get my point based on your "IU guy" comment.  Fife is and will always be interesting.  IPFW is a really hard job, so it's hard to say what he's really like as a head coach.  He's the son of a coach and has been around the game forever.  But....we've already gone down the "former assistant at Michigan State under Izzo" road, and I don't like the result.  Izzo's coaching tree isn't exactly impressive.  The "IU guy" list is getting smaller and smaller.  Michael Lewis may be, when it's all said and done, the one left when the timing's right.  

 

I like the Millers.  I really do.  I think they're better than Crean because I think they're a little more structured, and when I hear them talk, it doesn't strike me that there's no plan, and I don't hear platitudes.  I like Sean because he has some roots in Indiana, and I think he's a little better coach than Archie is.  That's just an opinion based on a few games watching both.  

 

You are my new favorite poster.  I hate the big heads.  I hate the piped in music.  I hate the manufactured enthusiasm.  That's not our DNA.  It's not our culture.  We're a pep band and tradition.  Just who we are.  Duke has their quirky traditions, Kansas has theirs, we had ours...and we lost them in favor of "modern."  I know what the very predictable arguments are against what I just said, but I don't agree with them.  You don't have to have every bell, whistle, and gimmick to "keep up" or to attract the kids of today.  That stance is simply not correct.  Fred Glass holds the candle there...he's a quirky, gimmicky guy.  Smart, but gimmicky.   His marketing vs. what Indiana's been built on don't always match up.  Assembly Hall is still one of the coolest places around, but purity has a place.  It breeds the kind of basketball and kind of success I think we all want to see.  It doesn't get more pure than Hinkle, and their game atmosphere is still pretty vanilla because of the building.  But it's classic.  I like "classic," and I think it still plays very well.

 

Uwe, Ray Harper is 54 years old.  Indiana doesn't need that.  We need a young, tough, smart up and comer.  Good coach...not sure I think it's the right fit.

[mdn82]

Why can't a coach grow from his time in the big 10?
He seems to be doing just fine in the big 12.

For the same reasons Crean can't. Track record. He couldn't recruit this area then. No reason to magically think it happens now. The B12 has always been top heavy. Better place for him to be.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

The inactivity on this board (not thread) in regards to basketball speaks volumes on the state of IUBB at the moment.

Hardly any enthusiasm. A roster full of talent, supposedly, and we are relegated to another lackluster year.

I imagine enthusiasm will pick back up in time for the B1G, but will this team hold our attention or frustrate us further? I wish I could look forward with optimism, but I can't. This was supposed to be the year even Crean couldn't screw up.

Sorry for rant and rambling.

I will reset and give this team another chance come B1G. Crean- Not so much.

[colonel06]

The inactivity on this board (not thread) in regards to basketball speaks volumes on the state of IUBB at the moment.

Hardly any enthusiasm. A roster full of talent, supposedly, and we are relegated to another lackluster year.

I imagine enthusiasm will pick back up in time for the B1G, but will this team hold our attention or frustrate us further? I wish I could look forward with optimism, but I can't. This was supposed to be the year even Crean couldn't screw up.

Sorry for rant and rambling.

I will reset and give this team another chance come B1G. Crean- Not so much.

. I sadly agree. Did anyone catch the interview or the podcast of Dan Dakich interview of Coach K. (Grad of "The Ling Gray Line" class of '69) Wow, the last 6 -7 minutes on leadership will make this an instant classic IMO.

[Alford Bailey]

The inactivity on this board (not thread) in regards to basketball speaks volumes on the state of IUBB at the moment.

Hardly any enthusiasm. A roster full of talent, supposedly, and we are relegated to another lackluster year.

I imagine enthusiasm will pick back up in time for the B1G, but will this team hold our attention or frustrate us further? I wish I could look forward with optimism, but I can't. This was supposed to be the year even Crean couldn't screw up.

Sorry for rant and rambling.

I will reset and give this team another chance come B1G. Crean- Not so much.

Head over to IU/Francaisland

[colonel06]

"Long "Gray Line that is, a reference to West Point grads.

[HoosierTrav]

Stevens has his team up 84-83 on the Warriors with 9:08 left. That defense is a thing of beauty.

***I had no idea where to put this***

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Defense?  We don't need no stinking defense!  We got shooters!