TOM CREAN FIRED

[HoosierTrav]

yep, that was the one. Thanks.

I'd appreciate it more if it went into detail about how Creans defensive approach made sense. I agree that I was way off on Yogi though. I thought for sure he was one of those once in a decade type point guard leaders and he's not. He doesn't command anything on the court.  Our most vocal leader is a freshman and thats sad.

[HoosierTrav]

The post-Duke Assembly Call had a great segment on how he needs to look at what he's doing and do the complete opposite. Just stop trying to do it himself and either delegate it to someone else in the staff or find another way to teach the defense because it is obviously not working. They're right. I don't know what is going on in practice, but I think we are good on gameplanning and offensive work until Notre Dame. Let's only do defensive drills for one kind of defense.

 

Actually, that whole Assembly Call is very very good if people don't normally listen. They're a fairly optimistic group, but the way they breakdown the failures in coaching over the past few years and the feeling of disappointment and sadness in the hearts of IU fans is great. Jerod has a great speech at the end about how much it sucks to be a fan right now and how it shouldn't.

Are you able to post a link? I'd love to hear it.

[BGleas]

I completely agree with you and HoosierPap here on the premise of that article. But, the question for me would be, at what point does it go from a player problem to a coach/program problem?

First it was Jeremy Hollowell's fault. Then it was Naoh Vonleh's. Then Hanner Perea. Then Devin Davis. Then Emmitt Holt. Now Yogi Ferrell. I do understand that Yogi has been the constant through this entire time, but at what point is that culture the fault of Tom Crean? So while the article may be accurate and it does give me a slight (slight being keyword) amount of pause on the "Crean has to go" mantra, it still leaves the question of whether he's equipped to handle this.

Which matches up with Glass, "Crean is not the problem, he is part of the solution". Definitely complicates things but other coaches CAN deal with egos. Sounds like we need a full rebuild. Gotta wonder where the toxicity stops. Many of these guys like one another.

[8bucks]

I completely agree with you and HoosierPap here on the premise of that article. But, the question for me would be, at what point does it go from a player problem to a coach/program problem?

First it was Jeremy Hollowell's fault. Then it was Naoh Vonleh's. Then Hanner Perea. Then Devin Davis. Then Emmitt Holt. Now Yogi Ferrell. I do understand that Yogi has been the constant through this entire time, but at what point is that culture the fault of Tom Crean? So while the article may be accurate and it does give me a slight (slight being keyword) amount of pause on the "Crean has to go" mantra, it still leaves the question of whether he's equipped to handle this.

I agree. We have seen all the players you mentioned benched at different points except Yogi.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I completely agree with you and HoosierPap here on the premise of that article. But, the question for me would be, at what point does it go from a player problem to a coach/program problem?

First it was Jeremy Hollowell's fault. Then it was Naoh Vonleh's. Then Hanner Perea. Then Devin Davis. Then Emmitt Holt. Now Yogi Ferrell. I do understand that Yogi has been the constant through this entire time, but at what point is that culture the fault of Tom Crean? So while the article may be accurate and it does give me a slight (slight being keyword) amount of pause on the "Crean has to go" mantra, it still leaves the question of whether he's equipped to handle this.

It gives me zero pause. But you are exactly right. It adds a layer to the problems we are having. IF it were 1 player THAT toxic and that was the reason, you use leadership to fix them or boot them. I don't think it's that simple.

Many players have questioned Crean's coaching in the past. He has not continually commanded their respect. This environment was allowed or even nurtured.

That was why my initial point was the adults get the blame because they have the power at beginning, middle, and end. If they yield that power away, it's another fault of the staff.

[hoosierpap]

I completely agree with you and HoosierPap here on the premise of that article. But, the question for me would be, at what point does it go from a player problem to a coach/program problem?

First it was Jeremy Hollowell's fault. Then it was Naoh Vonleh's. Then Hanner Perea. Then Devin Davis. Then Emmitt Holt. Now Yogi Ferrell. I do understand that Yogi has been the constant through this entire time, but at what point is that culture the fault of Tom Crean? So while the article may be accurate and it does give me a slight (slight being keyword) amount of pause on the "Crean has to go" mantra, it still leaves the question of whether he's equipped to handle this.

I'm not absolving Crean here. I may not have stated that in my last post, but definitely did in the ones prior. It's on him, too. But it's a combination is all i'm saying and I certainly don't feel bad for the players.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

2 interesting thoughts here.
1. "Making their money somewhere else". Interesting phrasing. 2.

Pap, I'm intrigued. Wink, wink. Care to expound. Jk, kind of...

[Alford Bailey]

Crean is in control. If he allowed Yogi to be a problem for 4 years he deserves what he gets.

 

I go back to what promises were made during recruiting to Yogi, Troy and JBJ.

[Alford Bailey]

Troy has had off court issues, never played defense and been out of control since he got here but continued to start and play a bunch of minutes.  WHY?

 

Did we promise Uncle Boo we would get him to the next level?

[Alford Bailey]

We know JBJ was promised minutes as primary ballhandler to help him get to the next level. WHY? 

 

Recruiting promises made that get in the way of team building.

[HoosierRob]

When your incoming freshmen (Bryant) is more of a leader then your senior. You have a problem

[hoosierpap]

Crean is in control. If he allowed Yogi to be a problem for 4 years he deserves what he gets.

 

I go back to what promises were made during recruiting to Yogi, Troy and JBJ.

 

Troy has had off court issues, never played defense and been out of control since he got here but continued to start and play a bunch of minutes.  WHY?

 

Did we promise Uncle Boo we would get him to the next level?

 

We know JBJ was promised minutes as primary ballhandler to help him get to the next level. WHY? 

 

Recruiting promises made that get in the way of team building.

This whole thing is somewhat insane to me. The fact that I am, seemingly, sticking up for a coach who I think deserves to be fired. But the points being made just seem to be piling on and don't really make much sense.

 

Promises are made in recruiting. That's the norm, not the exception, BY ANY MEANS.

 

1) YF- alleged promised starter? If that is true, which I have never heard outside of on here, then I guess that was a mistake? I know those promises go something along the lines of "you'll be our starter from day one" which isn't immune to a benching throughout a career. 

 

2) TW- Did Crean promise to get Troy to the next level? Yes, he'd be insane not to use that pitch/promise to Mom. Boo is smart enough to know that his nephew is going to make it based on his measurables alone. Not an issue. 

 

3)JBJ- promised minutes as a primary ball handler? This system runs with a lot of guys with the ball in their hands. I don't see it being force fed JBJ's way. Am I off there?

[hoosierpap]

Pap, I'm intrigued. Wink, wink. Care to expound. Jk, kind of...

I meant nothing by it as it relates to IU. Just saying you have 3 kids on this team who are playing for their futures first and IU second and have been for years. You can't have that. 

[MartintheMopMan]

Are you able to post a link? I'd love to hear it.

http://assemblycall.com/shows/iu-duke-postgame-show-2015/

 

The part about defense is towards the end. Maybe, 15 or 20 minutes left. It was about when I was entering the bridge line and I think ended just over the bridge, so that tells me around 15 to 20 minutes. But, who knows?

 

I love them, they're one of the only post-game shows I've found with analysis from people who understand basketball (looking at you Crimson Cast). Though, there are a surprising lack of Indiana basketball (and football) podcasts in general.

[biteoftheapple]

http://assemblycall.com/shows/iu-duke-postgame-show-2015/

The part about defense is towards the end. Maybe, 15 or 20 minutes left. It was about when I was entering the bridge line and I think ended just over the bridge, so that tells me around 15 to 20 minutes. But, who knows?

I love them, they're one of the only post-game shows I've found with analysis from people who understand basketball (looking at you Crimson Cast). Though, there are a surprising lack of Indiana basketball (and football) podcasts in general.

I have attempted to go to the site several times today. I always get "web page is unavailable."

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I meant nothing by it as it relates to IU. Just saying you have 3 kids on this team who are playing for their futures first and IU second and have been for years. You can't have that.

yep. Found it particularly interesting in regards to Brian Snows tweets a few weeks ago. I think it was Snow. He said it's easy to find the pay for players because their teams underperform regularly.

[hoosierpap]

yep. Found it particularly interesting in regards to Brian Snows tweets a few weeks ago. I think it was Snow. He said it's easy to find the pay for players because their teams underperform regularly.

I'm not sure i'm reading what you're saying correctly but I'm not insinuating IU paid for anyone, at all. Just to be clear lol

[JaybobHoosier]

I'm not sure i'm reading what you're saying correctly but I'm not insinuating IU paid for anyone, at all. Just to be clear lol

I think he's referencing players who only know care about themselves, and want to be promised whatever possible to be swayed. I hope that's right lol.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Yeah, I know. But it's fits the Cash Player lines that Snow tweeted about months ago in the sense that those players are out for themselves and the team generally suffers.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I think he's referencing players who only know care about themselves, and want to be promised whatever possible to be swayed. I hope that's right lol.

yeah.