College Football Thread

[Jeff Flabjohns]

The Hoover overthrows were egregious this last game. Doesn’t even give his receivers a chance to make a play, and he had more time back there on avg than Sayin was afforded. 

[skhoosier2]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Ehh.. I think Rourke, even with the torn ACL and thumb, clears Hoover. And I don’t think it’s particularly close. This squad with Rourke would be the national title favorite. Hoover has had the same issues all season. He can’t throw the ball accurately down field at all. He regularly under throws deep balls. There have been many passes to Becker that would be walk in touchdowns if he could hit him in stride. He regularly overthrows the 15-20 yard balls. His passes are often awkwardly placed where receivers have to adjust. His vision isn’t good either. He misses a lot of open guys. He hasn’t thrown any interceptions, but that’s in part because so many of his passes aren’t catchable by anyone. I recognize that before Cig, we very rarely had a QB better than Hoover, but his play has been a far cry from what we’ve experienced the two prior years. 

I would agree Rourke > Hoover.  Hoover definitely has accuracy issues.  Did not watch alot of him at TCU so don't know if this was always an issue or if he's in his head which at times, I feel like he is.  Running game HAS to help him out though and not sure what the issue is other than nobody is getting any push to open holes for the backs.  

[Lebowski]

12 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Ehh.. I think Rourke, even with the torn ACL and thumb, clears Hoover. And I don’t think it’s particularly close. This squad with Rourke would be the national title favorite. Hoover has had the same issues all season. He can’t throw the ball accurately down field at all. He regularly under throws deep balls. There have been many passes to Becker that would be walk in touchdowns if he could hit him in stride. He regularly overthrows the 15-20 yard balls. His passes are often awkwardly placed where receivers have to adjust. His vision isn’t good either. He misses a lot of open guys. He hasn’t thrown any interceptions, but that’s in part because so many of his passes aren’t catchable by anyone. I recognize that before Cig, we very rarely had a QB better than Hoover, but his play has been a far cry from what we’ve experienced the two prior years. 

You might be right. Rourke had better vision. And Hoover's placement is shotty. It's really apparent when he throws off his back foot and relies on his arm alone. But in the grand scheme it doesn't matter because both QBs are different and had/have their own strengths. The coaching staff are well aware what each of them had/have to offer. For example, Hoover's RPO game is better overall compared to Rourke. 

My point is that I don't think Hoover is a problem. I think it's the running game, including Hoover tucking it. Take care of the running game and you take care of relying on Josh Hoover's arm at the end of games. 

[Demo]

Chew on this one for a minute 

[skhoosier2]

If Hoover was so experienced at the RPO, why is he having so many issues reading and identifying where to go with the ball?  Schott open TD for instance.  Klatt said that should have been his first read and Cig mentioned something similar when they interviewed him, I believe at the half.  I know TCU ran air raid so I am guessing that is part of it?  Again, did not watch a ton of TCU so no clue if these issues were there and they are just trying to coach them out of him.

Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned but Whittmer > Tino.  Tino is good but he's not Whittmer.  IMO Fernando was as successful as he was not only because he was superhuman in his preparation and intelligence, but also because of Whittmer's coaching.

Im not saying Hoover is THE problem.  He's got his issues but our inability to open holes and run the ball is the most concerning thing on offense to me at this point.  All of our offense is predicated off the run game.  That I guess is one difference from air raid to IU offense.

[go iu bb]

I wonder if this lose could help the team. They've seemed out of sync this whole season and I wonder if part of that is pressure. They're following an undefeated NC, after all. I think every win added a little more pressure. Now they don't have to worry about trying to replicate an undefeated season. It also shows them that they can, in fact, lose. So even if the pressure wasn't there, this may be the wakeup they needed.

It sucks to lose, but if it's going to happen it may as well be in a close game against a highly ranked opponent like O$U. Hopefully, they bounce back strong, playing better than before.

[Pagoda]

3 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

I wonder if this lose could help the team. They've seemed out of sync this whole season and I wonder if part of that is pressure. They're following an undefeated NC, after all. I think every win added a little more pressure. Now they don't have to worry about trying to replicate an undefeated season. It also shows them that they can, in fact, lose. So even if the pressure wasn't there, this may be the wakeup they needed.

It sucks to lose, but if it's going to happen it may as well be in a close game against a highly ranked opponent like O$U. Hopefully, they bounce back strong, playing better than before.

I think that’s the hope.  Cig pretty much just said so in the Monday presser.

If Hoover can play better I’m not sure.   We’ll see.

[realTomCrean]

The loss couldn't have happened on a better day in CFB and for this team specifically. Losing the way they did it's gotta hurt - not executing in so many different areas throughout the game. If a medial football mind as mine can see certainly our staff does. Punt Return has been abysmal, kicking has been mediocre, Off. execution has been off slightly all year (a throw, a step, a route). You can see the championship DNA all over this program and I'd put my bottom dollar on a curb stomping for Michigan Saturday and again for Minnesota. We will end October with no doubt this a national champion level team. 

[rcbowla]

32 minutes ago, Demo said:

Chew on this one for a minute 

It'll never happen for many reasons. One being that Cig won't let his QB's go to Manning camp over his own QB development. Conflict of interest. I'm half kidding but that did come up with Mendoza last year.

[rcbowla]

35 minutes ago, skhoosier2 said:

If Hoover was so experienced at the RPO, why is he having so many issues reading and identifying where to go with the ball?  Schott open TD for instance.  Klatt said that should have been his first read and Cig mentioned something similar when they interviewed him, I believe at the half.  I know TCU ran air raid so I am guessing that is part of it?  Again, did not watch a ton of TCU so no clue if these issues were there and they are just trying to coach them out of him.

Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned but Whittmer > Tino.  Tino is good but he's not Whittmer.  IMO Fernando was as successful as he was not only because he was superhuman in his preparation and intelligence, but also because of Whittmer's coaching.

Im not saying Hoover is THE problem.  He's got his issues but our inability to open holes and run the ball is the most concerning thing on offense to me at this point.  All of our offense is predicated off the run game.  That I guess is one difference from air raid to IU offense.

Think exact same as you on Whitmer. How much $ to get him back? Also, the single biggest issue with this team is absolutely the lack of push in the run game. It's a glaring weakness at this point.

[Hoosierfan2017]

56 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

You might be right. Rourke had better vision. And Hoover's placement is shotty. It's really apparent when he throws off his back foot and relies on his arm alone. But in the grand scheme it doesn't matter because both QBs are different and had/have their own strengths. The coaching staff are well aware what each of them had/have to offer. For example, Hoover's RPO game is better overall compared to Rourke. 

My point is that I don't think Hoover is a problem. I think it's the running game, including Hoover tucking it. Take care of the running game and you take care of relying on Josh Hoover's arm at the end of games. 

Others have said it too, but I think Hoover looked more comfortable at the end of the game when we were passing every down. Idk if it’s a rhythm thing or what. Saturday was the first time he’s thrown 30+ passes a game, and he routinely did that at TCU. The run game definitely doesn’t help, and we need more creativity there. Seems like every run play was straight up the gut with, predictably, no success. Reminded me of the Mike DeBord era (RIP). 

[RaceToTheTop]

I think most of us in the back of our minds thought there was a real possibility of IU losing like a 31-13 game to Ohio State.  Instead it was a battle to the end.

Don't have time to lick our wounds, though.  While Michigan has underperformed, they still have Michigan talent and their offense looked much better in the second half last week with Carr in.

[skhoosier2]

1 hour ago, rcbowla said:

Think exact same as you on Whitmer. How much $ to get him back? Also, the single biggest issue with this team is absolutely the lack of push in the run game. It's a glaring weakness at this point.

We were always losing Whitmer as soon as the NFL came calling again.  He didn't want to come back to college, but he saw Mendoza and realized what he could turn him into so he came.  He said himself it was short term.  Mendoza winning the Heisman was his ticket back to the NFL.  He was elite.  I know they did take alot from the way he worked with Mendoza, I just don't think Tino is quite as good.

[KingPG21]

1 hour ago, skhoosier2 said:

We were always losing Whitmer as soon as the NFL came calling again.  He didn't want to come back to college, but he saw Mendoza and realized what he could turn him into so he came.  He said himself it was short term.  Mendoza winning the Heisman was his ticket back to the NFL.  He was elite.  I know they did take alot from the way he worked with Mendoza, I just don't think Tino is quite as good.

I'd throw Derek Owings name in there too. Look at Tenneessee with him. They look way different from before he got there,to where they are now

[Stuhoo]

2 hours ago, Demo said:

Chew on this one for a minute 

I'm chewing on it and I like the way it tastes.

[Hardwood83]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

I'm chewing on it and I like the way it tastes.

I'd pass. Clearly he has the physical tools, but he's dumb. Can't fix stupid. Which is shocking with his pedigree, but there it is.  

Plus with Hoover's play on Sat, Cig's "I can fix him" cred has taken a hit. 

[Brass Cannon]

3 hours ago, rcbowla said:

Think exact same as you on Whitmer. How much $ to get him back? Also, the single biggest issue with this team is absolutely the lack of push in the run game. It's a glaring weakness at this point.

The run game won’t be effective when teams are selling out for the run.  
 

Why do you think Hoover had so many wide open guys to overthrow?  

[go iu bb]

4 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I'm chewing on it and I like the way it tastes.

I'm not so sure I do. 

Besides, I don't think I could stand hearing the name "Arch" all the time. It is also worth noting that he is the son of the Manning brother who was NOT an NFL QB.

[skhoosier2]

26 minutes ago, KingPG21 said:

I'd throw Derek Owings name in there too. Look at Tenneessee with him. They look way different from before he got there,to where they are now

Yes.  I was thinking the same thing on Saturday.  It's unfortunate but he wanted to move on where he would get more attention.  He said in the book he had goals that he wanted to accomplish so although it was a hard decision with the offer Cig and Dolson made he made the best decision for himself.  Translation he thinks training athletes at UT where coaching is mid will get him to the NFL when they see what a difference he's made.  He wanted more visibility on himself and there's only room for one alpha at IU LOL

[Home Jersey]

20 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

Plus with Hoover's play on Sat, Cig's "I can fix him" cred has taken a hit. 

Gotta say, I disagree with this characterization / assertion. The best of coaches have occasional misses in the portal, that doesn't harm their credibility IMO. Not branding Hoover as a "miss" yet either. No coach is infallible of course.

Hoover was one of the top players in the portal, not really a fixer upper. Had a ton of experience with RPO and still hasn't thrown an INT this year. IMO if anything that supports Cig's case as a QB whisperer. Hoover just wasn't good enough to win Saturday, he's not a perfect player, but that's not an indictment of Cig. If Marsh gets his foot in on that final play (yes it should've been a better ball), people would probably be glossing over Hoover's poor play the rest of the day and talking about how he stepped up in a big moment. A few inches made all the difference in the outcome but I don't think that impacts the narrative about Cig in any way. His QB track record speaks for itself. 

All that said, I'd rather not see an Arch Manning experiment and I'd be surprised if we pursued that.