Transfer Portal w IU Interest

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,178]

2 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

That's what happens when you have no HS recruits and have to build a roster from the transfer portal.

That’s partly my point. That’s why I mentioned Bidunga, Booker, and the plethora of Purdue bigs as examples.  Sherrell is another great example. 
 

Tarris Reed is the best transfer portal example but in general the backup 5 spot should probably come from the HS ranks. Because no matter the war chest IU has we aren’t getting a playable backup 5.  Sparks was unplayable last year. It took Woodson 25 games to figure that out.  
 

 

[RaceToTheTop 24,274]

Back to Hatton -- teams said to be recruiting him (this was a little while back) were Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio State, and Clemson.

Minnesota has since signed a big from Texas-SA;  today Clemson signed Christain Reeves.  Have no idea what has went wrong with him but in two seasons he's barely seen the court at all for Duke after coming out of high school with accoloades.  

So two of the schools in contention have recently signed bigs.  So in terms of PT available, IU and Ohio State would be Hatton's best opportunities on that list.  The Ohio State fit is a little tough to figure out -- they've had a lot of players in and out.  They brought in Aaron Bradshaw to be their starting center and Sean Stewart to start at power forward;  both have good upsides but underwhelming freshman seasons.  They are bringing back one power forward who was in their rotation last year and another combo forward plus a center who were freshman last year who were not in the rotation.  Some it would seem they would have room for a backup center.  They are down to one scholarship.

[RaceToTheTop 24,274]

9 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

That’s partly my point. That’s why I mentioned Bidunga, Booker, and the plethora of Purdue bigs as examples.  Sherrell is another great example. 
 

Tarris Reed is the best transfer portal example but in general the backup 5 spot should probably come from the HS ranks. Because no matter the war chest IU has we aren’t getting a playable backup 5.  Sparks was unplayable last year. It took Woodson 25 games to figure that out.  
 

 

My point is simply that you can't retroactively change the issue of not having a HS recruit in the past and all the staff can do right now is deal with what is in the portal.  None of the players you have brought up -- other than Onyenso and Cyril -- are currently available.  Onyenso IMO isn't a realistic option because he will be able to latch on somewhere playing big minutes and getting paid -- we can't provide the big minutes -- and my assumption is Cyril is a option that most schools touched base with and he's already narrowed his list.

There have been a couple of bigs that Woodson has gotten commitments from (or at least kept the commitments from Miller) -- Logan Duncomb and Kaleb Banks (whom I would classify as a 4).  Neither worked out.  

[Demo 18,144]

33 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

 

In terms of 'which of the 3 Purdue bigs will blossom'....I do have a question for Wayne:  which of those three would you want to IU's backup big next year?  Burgess, the 137th ranked recruit, Jacobsen, the 149th ranked recruit, or Will Berg, who redshirted his freshman year and only played 55 minutes last year?  It's a serious question, because the guy you pick would have to be the guy taking over for Ballo if he got hurt.  

I agree with your point here, but I gotta say this, I love Burgess and assuming he’s back 100% from the broken leg I’d take that kid in a New York second. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,274]

19 minutes ago, Demo said:

I agree with your point here, but I gotta say this, I love Burgess and assuming he’s back 100% from the broken leg I’d take that kid in a New York second. 

But would you take him as your backup big next year?  Would you be comfortable playing him 10 to 15 minutes per game?

Personally, I will go on record as saying that Burgess and Peterson will neither see the court much and I would not be surprised if Peterson redshirts.  Of the three players I listed, I will go on record as saying that none average 15 minutes per game and the only one who might average 10 is Berg.  I fully expect that Kaufman-Renn and Furst will be getting the lion's share for Purdue at the five.  Painter likes his bigs but Purdue's talent is mostly at the 4 position next year and Furst not leaving IMO says he's going to be getting an uptick in minutes.  Painter is going to want Catchings on the floor which means I think you see Kaufman-Renn and Furst at the 5 when then can do so.

[Demo 18,144]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

 

UConn has Tarris Reed as it’s backup big from the portal for example. There are numerous examples. Arrington Page could be a guy. So many….




Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

 

I get the point you’re making here, but there is zero chance that Hurley’s pitch to Reed was to come back up Samson Johnson. It’s completely different then selling a high end kid on coming to Bloomington where Ballo is going to get 30 mins and it’s entirely likely that your leading returning scorer is going to get the 10-12 mins Ballo’s sitting. I get the desire to have a young big with upside. I wanted Queen as much as anyone. That’s not how that worked out. There were a couple of young bigs in the portal I liked, but the staff clearly prioritized a physically and emotionally mature veteran kid to fill a niche. That’s not the direction I would have gone but it’s completely defensible. Sparks didn’t work because he was simply skill deficient. Assuming that it does turn out to be Hatton he has skill elements that would play and he checks an awful lot of boxes. And 1 element he possesses that a lot of kids don’t, and I don’t usually put my thumb on the scale for local kids, is that he walks in with a clearer understanding of the expectations surrounding IUBB than a kid like Konstantynovskyi or even a high major kid from elsewhere is likely to have, and that’s not nothin’. 

[Demo 18,144]

4 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

But would you take him as your backup big next year?  Would you be comfortable playing him 10 to 15 minutes per game?

Personally, I will go on record as saying that Burgess and Peterson will neither see the court much and I would not be surprised if Peterson redshirts.  Of the three players I listed, I will go on record as saying that none average 15 minutes per game and the only one who might average 10 is Berg.  I fully expect that Kaufman-Renn and Furst will be getting the lion's share for Purdue at the five.  Painter likes his bigs but Purdue's talent is mostly at the 4 position next year and Furst not leaving IMO says he's going to be getting an uptick in minutes.  Painter is going to want Catchings on the floor which means I think you see Kaufman-Renn and Furst at the 5 when then can do so.

If you’re asking me if I’d take him in the role that’s currently available on this roster, a back of the rotation/niche piece, the answer is yes. If Ballo or Reneau goes down and you need 25 mins a night, nope, but I also don’t think any kid you’re gonna bring into the current situation would see their minutes just reflexively ratcheted up from 5 mins to 25. They’re obviously planning to play a more perimeter oriented game and they would just rework rotations to accommodate who’s available. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,178]

My point is simply that you can't retroactively change the issue of not having a HS recruit in the past and all the staff can do right now is deal with what is in the portal.  None of the players you have brought up -- other than Onyenso and Cyril -- are currently available.  Onyenso IMO isn't a realistic option because he will be able to latch on somewhere playing big minutes and getting paid -- we can't provide the big minutes -- and my assumption is Cyril is a option that most schools touched base with and he's already narrowed his list.
There have been a couple of bigs that Woodson has gotten commitments from (or at least kept the commitments from Miller) -- Logan Duncomb and Kaleb Banks (whom I would classify as a 4).  Neither worked out.  

You and I never agree on anything and that’s cool. You call it retroactively. It’s only retroactive NOW because that is how our staff chose to build the roster. Freshman were available all season. Almost all of them as a matter of fact. Every transfer was available when the portal opened. Ballo is a huge addition. Love the guy. But we just did the Ware/Sparks thing. Roster is definitely more versatile this year but the backup 5 spot is being supremely undervalued this off-season. And it’s only the backup 5 spot if Ballo is healthy. And neither of our 4’s make good 5’s like some rosters have.

It’s fine to find flaws in the roster and the staff. They messed up a ton last off-season, and I was one to point that out adamantly then too. This roster, everyone likes better but things can get dicey in a hurry and we are an injury or 2 away from saying WTF was the staff thinking in the front court this off-season just like we did with the backcourt last season.

To me, this roster needs a competent (is this Hatton? Not imo) back-up 5 AND and Burgess (just giving a name) type guy as #13.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,178]

I get the point you’re making here, but there is zero chance that Hurley’s pitch to Reed was to come back up Samson Johnson. It’s completely different then selling a high end kid on coming to Bloomington where Ballo is going to get 30 mins and it’s entirely likely that your leading returning scorer is going to get the 10-12 mins Ballo’s sitting. I get the desire to have a young big with upside. I wanted Queen as much as anyone. That’s not how that worked out. There were a couple of young bigs in the portal I liked, but the staff clearly prioritized a physically and emotionally mature veteran kid to fill a niche. That’s not the direction I would have gone but it’s completely defensible. Sparks didn’t work because he was simply skill deficient. Assuming that it does turn out to be Hatton he has skill elements that would play and he checks an awful lot of boxes. And 1 element he possesses that a lot of kids don’t, and I don’t usually put my thumb on the scale for local kids, is that he walks in with a clearer understanding of the expectations surrounding IUBB than a kid like Konstantynovskyi or even a high major kid from elsewhere is likely to have, and that’s not nothin’. 

Fair. I personally don’t think Hatton is the guy. Knowing expectations means little to me. Indiana basketball is serious business, paying bench guys a quarter million dollars a year. If that doesn’t motivate expectations then the recruiting really missed the boat.

 

I’ve said this before. We are selling probably about 15 minutes. But we are also selling big time NIL. With Reneau foul trouble and Ballo FT shooting maybe that goes to 20 with a talented enough player.

 

My bigger fear is we get a Sparks level backup 5 and staff plays him no matter what the on-court failures are telling you, a la Sparks because he’s your “”backup 5”. If you don’t get a difference maker at the position, don’t play the guy at all. Go 4 guards and Mgbako for all I care. Put your 5 most talented guys on the floor and figure it out.

 

Last season gave me PTSD regarding coaching decisions and my trust level is limited.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[hohohoosiers311 110]

Sounds like Wayne might have a big meltdown next week, LOL.  

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,666]

6 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Fair. I personally don’t think Hatton is the guy. Knowing expectations means little to me. Indiana basketball is serious business, paying bench guys a quarter million dollars a year. If that doesn’t motivate expectations then the recruiting really missed the boat.

 

I’ve said this before. We are selling probably about 15 minutes. But we are also selling big time NIL. With Reneau foul trouble and Ballo FT shooting maybe that goes to 20 with a talented enough player.

 

My bigger fear is we get a Sparks level backup 5 and staff plays him no matter what the on-court failures are telling you, a la Sparks because he’s your “”backup 5”. If you don’t get a difference maker at the position, don’t play the guy at all. Go 4 guards and Mgbako for all I care. Put your 5 most talented guys on the floor and figure it out.

 

Last season gave me PTSD regarding coaching decisions and my trust level is limited.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

I don't see how we could be selling 15 mins. 5 maybe 

Find me 15 mins for Hatton with our top 8. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,274]

6 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

You and I never agree on anything and that’s cool. You call it retroactively. It’s only retroactive NOW because that is how our staff chose to build the roster. Freshman were available all season. Almost all of them as a matter of fact. Every transfer was available when the portal opened. Ballo is a huge addition. Love the guy. But we just did the Ware/Sparks thing. Roster is definitely more versatile this year but the backup 5 spot is being supremely undervalued this off-season. And it’s only the backup 5 spot if Ballo is healthy. And neither of our 4’s make good 5’s like some rosters have.

It’s fine to find flaws in the roster and the staff. They messed up a ton last off-season, and I was one to point that out adamantly then too. This roster, everyone likes better but things can get dicey in a hurry and we are an injury or 2 away from saying WTF was the staff thinking in the front court this off-season just like we did with the backcourt last season.

To me, this roster needs a competent (is this Hatton? Not imo) back-up 5 AND and Burgess (just giving a name) type guy as #13.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

I'm not sure we even agree on the statement that we never agree on anything, LOL. We have back and forths when we disagree but when we agree, there really is a need for a back and forth. :)

I never said that there shouldn't have been a backup big already in place via a recruit/transfer previously;  what I was simply saying was that at this point all the staff can do is deal with what is currently on the roster.  The fact that Sparks did not pan out IMO was not as apparent in advance -- check your post history and see if you thought having him as a backup was a mistake when he committed.  In the past two years, Duncomb and then Sparks were brought in.  Duncomb was the 68th ranked recruit, so a guy who was ranked way ahead of where Burgess is now.  Payton Sparks was an All-MAC team level performer (think it was 2nd team) who had two years of eligibility) the following year -- personally, give me sight unseen him over Burgess ten times out of ten.  So it wasn't as if the backup big spot wasn't address prior, it was that the backup bigs brought in didn't pan out.  That's why I call the issue a retroactive one -- the spot of backup 5 was addressed each of the last two years.  Call it a miss on the staff's part of identifying the right guy for that position but on paper those guys weren't mistakes.  On the court they were.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,178]

Sounds like Wayne might have a big meltdown next week, LOL.  

Nah, I’m rolling with whatever. Stated my case all yesterday. Just hope Ballo stays healthy and Woodson plays our best guys.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[hohohoosiers311 110]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Nah, I’m rolling with whatever. Stated my case all yesterday. Just hope Ballo stays healthy and Woodson plays our best guys.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

Good deal... I've seen kids come off the bench, make the most of the opportunity given even in limited time, and help the team win games which I'm sure is what you're wanting.  I understand all of your points, though... I really do... but please know the gravity of the situation and the high stakes are not taken lightly.  We know.

[Hardwood83 4,576]

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

I don't see how we could be selling 15 mins. 5 maybe 

Find me 15 mins for Hatton with our top 8. 

12-15mpg seems realistic since Ballo has averaged under 27mpg the last 2 seasons. Of course, I'm assuming Reneau will not play meaningful mins at the 5. Could be wrong on both accounts. 

[68Hoosier 498]

3 hours ago, hohohoosiers311 said:

Sounds like Wayne might have a big meltdown next week, LOL.  

So what do you know, lol.

Spill it now....

[J34 1,341]

As much as I've bitched about CMW, he has constructed a versatile roster. We said we needed shooters, we got shooters. We said we needed playmakers, we got playmakers. We said we needed quality guards, we got quality guards. We needed a big to "replace" Ware, we "replaced" Ware. No doubt we need a backup 5, but this is the (on paper) deepest, most interchangeable roster we've had in many years. We'll end up getting a serviceable 10-15 mpg big(or 2), who HAS to be as good or better than Durr, Sparks, or even LD. The jury's still out on how well they are coached up(another thread), but I have to admit, what's transpired this offseason, is impressive. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,666]

1 hour ago, Hardwood83 said:

12-15mpg seems realistic since Ballo has averaged under 27mpg the last 2 seasons. Of course, I'm assuming Reneau will not play meaningful mins at the 5. Could be wrong on both accounts. 

ehhh... I think if we were selling that much playing time we'd already have a backup 5 in the bag. 

[DChoosier 7,149]

11 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Fair. I personally don’t think Hatton is the guy. Knowing expectations means little to me. Indiana basketball is serious business, paying bench guys a quarter million dollars a year. If that doesn’t motivate expectations then the recruiting really missed the boat.

 

I’ve said this before. We are selling probably about 15 minutes. But we are also selling big time NIL. With Reneau foul trouble and Ballo FT shooting maybe that goes to 20 with a talented enough player.

 

My bigger fear is we get a Sparks level backup 5 and staff plays him no matter what the on-court failures are telling you, a la Sparks because he’s your “”backup 5”. If you don’t get a difference maker at the position, don’t play the guy at all. Go 4 guards and Mgbako for all I care. Put your 5 most talented guys on the floor and figure it out.

 

Last season gave me PTSD regarding coaching decisions and my trust level is limited.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

Sparks played 177 minutes all season which was the least of any scholarship player on the team and that is somehow considered “playing him no matter what the on-court failures are telling you” ????

I think the opposite happened. The former MAC freshman of the year, and second team all-MAC player, barely played because his on-court failures were indeed recognized.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,666]

2 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Sparks played 177 minutes all season which was the least of any scholarship player on the team and that is somehow considered “playing him no matter what the on-court failures are telling you” ????

I think the opposite happened. The former MAC freshman of the year, and second team all-MAC player, barely played because his on-court failures were indeed recognized.

Bingo. And 29 mins (against NE) came out of absolute necessity because Ware was sick. 

12 of them came against Northern Alabama... we won by 17

14 against UL-- he played well in that game 

14 against Kennesaw State-- Ware sat that game, too 

11 mins against Purdue when the other bigs were in foul trouble.... 

That accounts for 80 of his 176 mins played on the season... in the other games, that he played in...

 

 

Other than those 5 games--- he played in 19 games and in those games--- he avged 5 mins per game plus 9 DNPs. Yes, he basically never played.