They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Hornsby]

The recruiting misses are tough. The “insiders” are saying the fans put too much pressure on the team and the guys crumble under the immense pressure.
 
I get that. I think it’s probably a real thing. But Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and others have the same type of large, loud fanbases. They win (mostly). Maybe we get the wrong guys that don’t relish the big stage. I mean, also obviously the coach. Because a good product and Wins and our fanbase can be our biggest asset as well.
 
I’m excited to see a different brand of basketball. I miss ball movement, player movement.
 
It’s a shame because this roster had me excited again until I’ve seen the product 4-5 times and it looks the same as it always does. And the results are line with other Mediocre Mike seasons. Ugh……….
 
 
 
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The only difference is this is the highest paid roster we ever had. The on court product is exactly the same.

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[Scotty R]

3 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Does this really matter?

You tend to point out mistakes for the sake of doing so while ignoring the point. Woodson’s recruiting failure isn’t debatable 

Didn't mean it matters and I know it is time for Woodson to leave. I wanted him gone after last year but they didn't fire him so I was willing to see how it was going to go this year

[AZ Hoosier]

42 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The fact no one else wanted him to be HC should've told them do not pass go, that's a giant red flag. Either the only thing that mattered was him playing here 40 years ago, or their vetting was laughably abysmal.

C. All of the above.

[Pagoda]

Well, Doherty had an ACC title and AP Coach of the Year to earn him more time and he wasn't fired for cause.  Billy Clyde I believe was, he is likely a good serious misconduct example.  As a side note it's kinda funny TT hired him... right on brand for them.

Another way to put it: would UK, UNC, or KU give Woody a 4th year?  We'll never know, but I doubt it.

And the point remains coaches aren't scared off when they see a poor coach like Woodson fired, and there are costs to keep coaches like Woody around.  A good organization moves quickly on replacing bad leaders regardless of perceived industry norms, it's always better to bite the bullet and move on, it only gets worse/harder as more time passes.

[AZ Hoosier]

18 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

At Rhode Island, but yes.

But the loss is to Brown and the wins are all incredibly low/mid-level, at best.

Not unlike Woodson's wins this year:
SIU-Edwardsville, Eastern Illinois, South Carolina, UNC Greensboro, Providence, Sam Houston St, Miami-Ohio, Minnesota, Chattanooga (and probably) Winthrop... real resume building wins there.

And he's lost to every team with a pulse.

[AZ Hoosier]

4 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

Well, Doherty had an ACC title and AP Coach of the Year to earn him more time and he wasn't fired for cause.  Billy Clyde I believe was, he is likely a good serious misconduct example.  As a side note it's kinda funny TT hired him... right on brand for them.

Another way to put it: would UK, UNC, or KU give Woody a 4th year?  We'll never know, but I doubt it.

And the point remains coaches aren't scared off when they see a poor coach like Woodson fired, and there are costs to keep coaches like Woody around.  A good organization moves quickly on replacing bad leaders regardless of perceived industry norms, it's always better to bite the bullet and move on, it only gets worse/harder as more time passes.

They would not have given him year one. Guaranteed.

[Home Jersey]

24 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Would future potential coaches have been turned off if Woodson retired after last year?

Answering my own question - I doubt it. 

There's a universe where Woodson could have retired quickly after the BTT and truthfully say: Indiana hadn't made the tournament in years. I came back and we made it 2/3 years. I put kids in the NBA. I proved 5 star talent from all over would come here. I helped build a foundational aspect of our program in NIL (if his connection to Simons/Cooks are as important as people speculate, this is 100% true regardless of his on court results even after he leaves - as long as the investment continues once he is gone. I think it will). 

That would be something he could feel legitimately proud about. And in a different environment, the AD probably is able to hold his hand through it so he can feel good and continue being a beloved figure in the university community. 

You may say he wanted another shot after missing the tournament because he's a competitor. I'd say that's baloney.

He should have quit while he was ahead. 

[Juwan Moye]

If our program were run by adults we’d have a headline about Woodson like this:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/43168609/sources-jim-larranaga-talks-miami-stepping-down

[HoosierHoopster]

34 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Didn't mean it matters and I know it is time for Woodson to leave. I wanted him gone after last year but they didn't fire him so I was willing to see how it was going to go this year

Same. At this point, I’m looking forward to the new coach search

[Napleshoosier]

Stu says he’s a dead man walking so I will take that as what’s happening.  I’m going to relax and watch these kids play out the year then get popcorn with extra butter and watch the upcoming show.  It’s normally very entertaining ……..

[Stuhoo]

34 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Not unlike Woodson's wins this year:
SIU-Edwardsville, Eastern Illinois, South Carolina, UNC Greensboro, Providence, Sam Houston St, Miami-Ohio, Minnesota, Chattanooga (and probably) Winthrop... real resume building wins there.

And he's lost to every team with a pulse.

Yet Woodson is in his last year and Archie is having a really good year. Because Rhode Island has very different expectations and resources.

NO ONE is disagreeing that

1. The hire of Woody was completely misguided
2. The plain fact that this is his last year.

But giving him the fourth year was 100% understandable. Just like Rhode Island giving Archie a fourth year was understandable even though he did not meet expectations there for his first three years.

[JSHoosier]

23 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

They would not have given him year one. Guaranteed.

Better question would be would they even grant him an interview considering he hadn't gotten another HC job since the Knicks fired him.

[Josh]

I've found that my hires that follow a bum are immensely more popular and successful than my hires that follow a legend.  Many candidates I interview say the same, they're excited to take over for a non-performer no matter how long the previous employee held their position.

The whole narrative that if we fire somebody before X amount of time we'll struggle to get a good candidate is pig poo.

[AZ Hoosier]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

I've found that my hires that follow a bum are immensely more popular and successful than my hires that follow a legend.  Many candidates I interview say the same, they're excited to take over for a non-performer no matter how long the previous employee held their position.
The whole narrative that if we fire somebody before X amount of time we'll struggle to get a good candidate is pig poo.

Nobody wants to be the guy that follows the legend… but that hasn’t been an issue here for 25 years.

[Hornsby]

Not unlike Woodson's wins this year:
SIU-Edwardsville, Eastern Illinois, South Carolina, UNC Greensboro, Providence, Sam Houston St, Miami-Ohio, Minnesota, Chattanooga (and probably) Winthrop... real resume building wins there.
And he's lost to every team with a pulse.

The preseason schedule is a joke. No wins against anyone any good.

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[Hornsby]

Answering my own question - I doubt it. 
There's a universe where Woodson could have retired quickly after the BTT and truthfully say: Indiana hadn't made the tournament in years. I came back and we made it 2/3 years. I put kids in the NBA. I proved 5 star talent from all over would come here. I helped build a foundational aspect of our program in NIL (if his connection to Simons/Cooks are as important as people speculate, this is 100% true regardless of his on court results even after he leaves - as long as the investment continues once he is gone. I think it will). 
That would be something he could feel legitimately proud about. And in a different environment, the AD probably is able to hold his hand through it so he can feel good and continue being a beloved figure in the university community. 
You may say he wanted another shot after missing the tournament because he's a competitor. I'd say that's baloney.
He should have quit while he was ahead. 

Exactly. Now any legacy he had is toast.

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[MikeRoberts]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Yet Woodson is in his last year

NO ONE is disagreeing that

1. The plain fact that this is his last year.

You keep saying its a fact that this is Woodson’s last year - have you shared where that is coming from and I missed it or just saying it?

Are you saying that even if Woodson was to get top 3 in the bigten, make the tourney etc he would still be gone? 

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

The fact no one else wanted him to be HC should've told them do not pass go, that's a giant red flag. Either the only thing that mattered was him playing here 40 years ago, or their vetting was laughably abysmal.

Dude was out of coaching entirely for two seasons before we came calling. Just a laughably bad hire made worse by IU’s refusal to cut its losses and move on before the bottom completely falls out. 

[Stuhoo]

21 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

You keep saying its a fact that this is Woodson’s last year - have you shared where that is coming from and I missed it or just saying it?

Are you saying that even if Woodson was to get top 3 in the bigten, make the tourney etc he would still be gone? 

I am saying that as things currently stand he is 100% gone. 

But as you've stated, until he's gone he's not officially gone at the end of the season.

• Could we lose to Winthrop and the next few after that and have an interim coach? Yup.
• And if he won the national championship would he stay? Geez... I hope so! And if he wins a mother****ing national championship we'd be flat-out crazy to let him go and many would have to eat a big helping of crow.

Now what do you think the chances are that he wins the national championship or wins the 18 team B1G? Given the style of play, connectivity, and team focus the odds of winning the natty or 18 team B1G are incredibly slim. Therefore, the chances of him stepping aside early are much, much higher than of him achieving ultimate success and staying, but the overwhelmingly most likely outcome is that this year is it.

[LamarCheeks]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Now what do you think the chances are that he wins the national championship or wins the 18 team B1G?