IUBB vs #2 Kansas - Saturday, 12.16.23 @ 12:30 on CBS

[Uspshoosier 44,415]

7 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Bates this year 7.1pts, 0.9 ast,1.1 rebs.

Bates last year 6.1pts, 1.1ast,  1.4 rebs

Open scholly this year 0 pts, 0 ast, 0 rebs 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,944]

27 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

He did and it takes time to get to that level. It took coach K over 4 years to just become a tournament team and took him 9 years to win his first championship

Only IU fans think it takes years and years and years to win. Musselman went to the Elite 8 in years 2 and 3, and went to the sweet 16 in year 4. With the transfer portal and NIL you can transform your program overnight. Woodson turns 66 in March. It’s not like he has a whole lot of time to win big. 

[BGleas 7,880]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

Open scholly this year 0 pts, 0 ast, 0 rebs 

Yeah, Bates or not, the biggest issue is that we didn't replace that production whatsoever. 

[go iu bb 4,831]

23 minutes ago, Rico said:

My point is that Bates is better than Gunn.  It was my point the "whole" time.  I get the NIL situation and why he aint here.  

"Better than Gunn" is a pretty low bar. 

[IU_FanClub 1,643]

Thought we showed some promise yesterday and overall feel better about the team moving forward this season but man that was one of the most soul crushing losses I’ve ever been in attendance for. Just brutal.

 

oh and maybe if we want to get open shots we should get ourselves an o lineman like KJ Adams to set moving screens on every possession!

[HoosierHoopster 6,157]

1 hour ago, go iu bb said:

The point being that with freshmen you don't know what to expect. Even if they live up to their promise, it usually isn't from the start. So bringing in someone that has already shown he can make shots in college would be preferable to another freshman.

I hear you, but I have mixed feelings on that. Guys like JHS may start slow but turn into monster players, and personally I prefer to see us continue to recruit frosh — has to be a mix of portal and frosh to grow the team. Bako has all the tools to be a very strong offensive player/shooter. Agree we should have gotten an exp guard from the portal- but want the balance and continuity in recruiting that comes with recruiting strong frosh prospects 

[Rico 2,922]

11 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

"Better than Gunn" is a pretty low bar. 

Gunn would be a star at Stetson.

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

22 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Open scholly this year 0 pts, 0 ast, 0 rebs 

Don’t just say the bad.  Hasn’t fouled or turned it over either. 

[Golfman25 4,793]

33 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Only IU fans think it takes years and years and years to win. Musselman went to the Elite 8 in years 2 and 3, and went to the sweet 16 in year 4. With the transfer portal and NIL you can transform your program overnight. Woodson turns 66 in March. It’s not like he has a whole lot of time to win big. 

Sure but three out of the five years before he started, they were in the tournament. There was a level of consistency there.  IU had not been to the tournament in the four years (plus Covid) before Woody.  You don’t think it matters.  But we weren’t relevant at that point. Tough to get great players went you don’t sniff the tournament.  
 

It’s easier to rehab a house than build one up from the foundation. 

[str8baller 4,817]

34 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Only IU fans think it takes years and years and years to win.

Correct. And one of my biggest pet peeves with the fan base.   
 

As I wrote in another post, the admin and donor class set those expectations. And they do so with their actions and media relations. Every head coach comes in saying some version of “Its INDIANA…conf titles…championships…blah blah blah.” I don’t hold that against the coaches because they’re supposed to say things like that. 
 

But whenever we have a coach that stumbles we generally get lectures about how it takes time, the ncaa unfairly persecutes us, the last coach “really dug us into a hole”, etc… It’s really just excuse making for a failed administrative effort and their coach. And we end up hanging onto mediocre coaches too long and wasting years. That’s how you one day look up and go “gee has it really been two decades since we were a premier program?” I was actually mildly surprised to see the fanbase fight back at the goodman article when Archie was fired because usually our default position is to be mild mannered and beg for approval. Archie’s 4 crap years was a bridge too far for even us, I guess.  
 

The best thing about Woody returning us to the tourney annually before handing the wheel off to the next guy, would be the next coach and his backers in the administration don’t get to cry about how impossible of a situation he walked into if he falters. 

[Golfman25 4,793]

16 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Correct. And one of my biggest pet peeves with the fan base.   
 

As I wrote in another post, the admin and donor class set those expectations. And they do so with their actions and media relations. Every head coach comes in saying some version of “Its INDIANA…conf titles…championships…blah blah blah.” I don’t hold that against the coaches because they’re supposed to say things like that. 
 

But whenever we have a coach that stumbles we generally get lectures about how it takes time, the ncaa unfairly persecutes us, the last coach “really dug us into a hole”, etc… It’s really just excuse making for a failed administrative effort and their coach. And we end up hanging onto mediocre coaches too long and wasting years. That’s how you one day look up and go “gee has it really been two decades since we were a premier program?” I was actually mildly surprised to see the fanbase fight back at the goodman article when Archie was fired because usually our default position is to be mild mannered and beg for approval. Archie’s 4 crap years was a bridge too far for even us, I guess.  
 

The best thing about Woody returning us to the tourney annually before handing the wheel off to the next guy, would be the next coach and his backers in the administration don’t get to cry about how impossible of a situation he walked into if he falters. 

The donor class make gazillions of dollars.  Don’t you think they know how to fairly assess success, failure, and accountability?  

[HoosierTrav 7,619]

37 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Correct. And one of my biggest pet peeves with the fan base.   
 

As I wrote in another post, the admin and donor class set those expectations. And they do so with their actions and media relations. Every head coach comes in saying some version of “Its INDIANA…conf titles…championships…blah blah blah.” I don’t hold that against the coaches because they’re supposed to say things like that. 
 

But whenever we have a coach that stumbles we generally get lectures about how it takes time, the ncaa unfairly persecutes us, the last coach “really dug us into a hole”, etc… It’s really just excuse making for a failed administrative effort and their coach. And we end up hanging onto mediocre coaches too long and wasting years. That’s how you one day look up and go “gee has it really been two decades since we were a premier program?” I was actually mildly surprised to see the fanbase fight back at the goodman article when Archie was fired because usually our default position is to be mild mannered and beg for approval. Archie’s 4 crap years was a bridge too far for even us, I guess.  
 

The best thing about Woody returning us to the tourney annually before handing the wheel off to the next guy, would be the next coach and his backers in the administration don’t get to cry about how impossible of a situation he walked into if he falters. 

I fully believe that Woody can build his legacy (as the Indiana coach) by showcasing, the potential this program has. I’m not really a believer, anymore, in his ability to meet his own stated goals of winning B1G championships and eventually a natty. I don’t see it. He has too many critical flaws that will prevent him from doing that. The biggest of which is his stubbornness and ego, which borders on full blown narcissism. He really struggles to put well rounded rosters together. His in game X’s and O’s are as good as we’ve had since Sampson. His rotations are as awful as Tom Crean’s, most times. 
 

I know enough in my time as a fan not to dismiss when a coach shows his hand. It’s usually always the reason why they ultimately come up short at IU. 
 

I just hope that Dolson and those making decisions have a solid plan to maximize Woody’s efforts and parlay those efforts into a successor that can build off of Woody’s work and start to win quickly. 
 

It doesn't take long to win big. So many examples proving this. The transfer portal and NIL have further solidified this fact. 

[Hornsby 1,629]

He did and it takes time to get to that level. It took coach K over 4 years to just become a tournament team and took him 9 years to win his first championship

This one example is used with every new hire we make. People were using it with archie even though it was clear by year two he was not the answer. It's like we are suppose to give each coach five years no matter how crappy them are.

 

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[Hoosierfan2017 19,944]

4 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

This one example is used with every new hire we make. People were using it with archie even though it was clear by year two he was not the answer. It's like we are suppose to give each coach five years no matter how crappy them are.

 

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Scotty R is the same guy who made hundreds of posts last spring calling anyone concerned with our roster impatient. Fast forward 8 months and guess what, people’s concerns are playing out in real time. I have no doubt he’ll be doing the same thing this spring. 

[str8baller 4,817]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

The donor class make gazillions of dollars.  Don’t you think they know how to fairly assess success, failure, and accountability?  

 

Every big school has a donor class with a gazillion dollars. Our donor class (and administration) have to beat THEIR donor class and administration. It’s not a competition between the admin/donors and you and me and the rest of the message boards.  
 

So, no, in relation to Kansas, UNC, Uconn, UK, etc…our guys do not know how to assess success, failure, and accountability at an elite level.  The proof is quite literally evident in the product on the floor.   
 

It could also be a process problem. Maybe we have a dictator and need a committee. Or have a committee and need a dictator. Or the committee is too small. Or too big. Whatever the case, it’s been pretty ineffective. 

 

[Josh 12,384]

2 hours ago, Hornsby said:

This one example is used with every new hire we make. People were using it with archie even though it was clear by year two he was not the answer. It's like we are suppose to give each coach five years no matter how crappy them are.

"He just needs MORE TIME!" is an excuse made by many here during the Archie years because they refused to think they could be wrong.  It gets followed up with "this is just who we are now, we shouldn't strive for better"

The loser mentality.  

[Five Prime 1,076]

College basketball is and forever will be a guard's game.  High level guard play has been desperately needed from this program since Yogi.  You just don't win big time in college hoops without great guards.  

[Hornsby 1,629]

"He just needs MORE TIME!" is an excuse made by many here during the Archie years because they refused to think they could be wrong.  It gets followed up with "this is just who we are now, we shouldn't strive for better"
The loser mentality.  

100% it was some were still saying it in year 4. It was clear by year 2 the archie hire was a big mistake. People just don't want to admit when they were wrong I guess.

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[Hornsby 1,629]

Scotty R is the same guy who made hundreds of posts last spring calling anyone concerned with our roster impatient. Fast forward 8 months and guess what, people’s concerns are playing out in real time. I have no doubt he’ll be doing the same thing this spring. 

Happens every summer. I assume he was on of the guys hyping up gunn and banks

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[yogisballin 2,290]

49 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

College basketball is and forever will be a guard's game.  High level guard play has been desperately needed from this program since Yogi.  You just don't win big time in college hoops without great guards.  

It is really that simple.