IUBB vs #2 Kansas - Saturday, 12.16.23 @ 12:30 on CBS

[yogisballin 2,290]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:41 PM, Hoosierfan1901 said:

That 4-year stretch from 2012-2016 was pretty fun to watch. Man that Syracuse loss stings

Yeah, I agree. Definitely fun to watch and what I'm getting ready to say is no slight to those teams. However, in comparison. The program feel was nothing to same of just year in and out expected to win the B1G/make a run to the Final 4. Those 4 years of 12-16 was the "we're back feeling?" But then realizing you're not and now we're 3 coaches later. Idk, where I'm going with all this. 

 

Dammit, I just want IUBB to be the same well oiled machine I watched back then. I'll just stop here

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

So when X comes back and if that leads to a top 3 finish, they recruit well in portal and wrap up 2024 class with 1/2 more 5 stars, Woody still isn’t the guy? saw many here saying they “know” he isn’t the guy. 

Those are some mighty big ifs.  

[JSHoosier 19,630]

7 hours ago, Hornsby said:

This one example is used with every new hire we make. People were using it with archie even though it was clear by year two he was not the answer. It's like we are suppose to give each coach five years no matter how crappy them are.

 

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A coach has to have plenty of time to completely make a mess. Then we have an excuse ready for the next coach.

[Kentuckysucks 2,143]

10 hours ago, str8baller said:

 

Every big school has a donor class with a gazillion dollars. Our donor class (and administration) have to beat THEIR donor class and administration. It’s not a competition between the admin/donors and you and me and the rest of the message boards.  
 

So, no, in relation to Kansas, UNC, Uconn, UK, etc…our guys do not know how to assess success, failure, and accountability at an elite level.  The proof is quite literally evident in the product on the floor.   
 

It could also be a process problem. Maybe we have a dictator and need a committee. Or have a committee and need a dictator. Or the committee is too small. Or too big. Whatever the case, it’s been pretty ineffective. 

 

We have 2 problems.  One we hold onto to coaches way too long.  Second, our administration is extremely picky.  They refuse to hire any surefire winner if that guy has even an ounce of baggage in his past.  Think Bruce Pearl.  If they ever hire a big name it would have to be a Brad Stevens or a Jay Wright.  My chances of winning the Powerball are about as likely as that.  We are just too holy as Chris once said.  

[Rico 2,922]

3 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

We have 2 problems.  One we hold onto to coaches way too long.  Second, our administration is extremely picky.  They refuse to hire any surefire winner if that guy has even an ounce of baggage in his past.  Think Bruce Pearl.  If they ever hire a big name it would have to be a Brad Stevens or a Jay Wright.  My chances of winning the Powerball are about as likely as that.  We are just too holy as Chris once said.  

Sampson had baggage when we hired him.

[Kentuckysucks 2,143]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

Sampson had baggage when we hired him.

That was only because Herbert insisted on it.  They wanted Beilein.

[Rico 2,922]

3 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

That was only because Herbert insisted on it.  They wanted Beilein.

Well that may be true but we still hired a coach with baggage.  But I get what you are saying.  The perception is that IU wants a squeaky clean guy.  Which is sort of an oxymoron considering we had Bob Knight.

[Golfman25 4,806]

13 minutes ago, Rico said:

Well that may be true but we still hired a coach with baggage.  But I get what you are saying.  The perception is that IU wants a squeaky clean guy.  Which is sort of an oxymoron considering we had Bob Knight.

Look how that turned out.  The Sampson debacle is really why we’re here today.  Self inflicted, sure.  Bit it’s why we are here.  It was the equivalent of the “death penalty” given to SMU football.  Look how long it’s taken them — 2 decades to come out of the wilderness.  It put a stink on this program like no other.  

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

21 minutes ago, Rico said:

Sampson had baggage when we hired him.

And we fired him for the first minor thing we could because they saw how quickly a winning coach became the face of the university 

[Rico 2,922]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

And we fired him for the first minor thing we could because they saw how quickly a winning coach became the face of the university 

And he continues to win at an alarming rate.

[sweetpain 511]

I still want Chris Beard. Now Ole Miss is undefeated in their first year as him as HC. He just wins, the schedule for him will get tougher now. Would he be a viable option for us in the future with his past?

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[Uspshoosier 44,421]

8 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

So when X comes back and if that leads to a top 3 finish, they recruit well in portal and wrap up 2024 class with 1/2 more 5 stars, Woody still isn’t the guy? saw many here saying they “know” he isn’t the guy. 

I guess I am struggling to what so many expected this year. Are those that are talking about expectations being too low, it is year 3, etc. saying they expected to beat UConn, Kansas and Auburn? Or at least Auburn (who is looking really, really good fyi)?  

just seems like a lot of declaring failure and being very sure this year is done. 

IU fans expect to win and make deep runs in the tourney every year.  Fair or unfair that’s not going to change.   Doesn’t matter if the program results wise is closer to Kansas St results over the last 20 years people will always expect Kansas results.   The results show exactly where IU as a program stands within the college basketball landscape but some will never acknowledge it which it their right.   Luckily in college basketball it only takes a couple consecutive runs to change a narrative.   There is no set number of years for a program to turn things around.   Some coaches start out strong and then flop while others flop early and turn it around.  No secret formula for programs.   I remember a couple years ago Hurley was losing a bunch of games in years 1 and 2 and it was wasn’t looking good.  In a press conference he told everyone you better get us now because we are coming.    He was right.    You could argue Woody having the little success he had in his first 2 years early paired with IU missing the tourney 5 straight years before him hurt him in the eyes of some fans.   Expectations were raised and rightfully so however programs success don’t have a linear path all the time.  Ups and downs like a roller coaster and IU as a program as a whole just isn’t at a point right now where they can lose the production they lost last year (a top 10 player in program history, 2 super seniors and more) and plug in new players and beat established programs that have been to final 4s.   As I’ve said don’t know the answer myself just know it’s not as easy as some want to make it out to be.   Here is hoping IUs program figures it out sooner rather than later.   I would say if it is the latter people will stop caring  but that won’t happen people will be here typing their frustrations next year or the year after or the year after.    

[Kentuckysucks 2,143]

6 minutes ago, sweetpain said:

I still want Chris Beard. Now Ole Miss is undefeated in their first year as him as HC. He just wins, the schedule for him will get tougher now. Would he be a viable option for us in the future with his past?

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Take a guess.

[TheWatShot 13,375]

9 hours ago, Hornsby said:

100% it was some were still saying it in year 4. It was clear by year 2 the archie hire was a big mistake. People just don't want to admit when they were wrong I guess.

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Athletic directors are usually reluctant to admit they made a mistake, and they rely on these fans to watch their backs. 

 

Really, the excuse-making/fear-mongering/loser's mentality in this program goes all the way back to Mike Davis. He wanted a tough non-conference schedule, then turned around and used it as an excuse. When things started going south, he blamed the fans and made it a racial issue. That got us Kelvin Sampson, who any other high-level program would have embraced, but not our lily-white fans who couldn't stand the thought of a team with players who don't graduate or go to class. So we dumped him over a silly infraction and nuked our program to show everyone how pure and by the book we could be, which was the perfect scenario for another excuse-maker in Tom Crean. He demanded an extension before he even coached a game, virtually guaranteeing he wouldn't be fired for at least five years. He then spends the next 3 years sucking and losing games, but remember, he inherited a mess and it takes time to fix things. Then, he wins the lottery with Zeller, and suddenly the majority of fans are in his corner and think it takes 4 years to "build the program." Crean almost got a 10th season because we had people who were scared no one would want the job if we fired a coach a year after winning the Big Ten. In hindsight, that 10th year might have been preferable to Archie Miller, who also got 4 years to "build the program" because that's how long it took Crean. 

 

It can be tough to recover from a bad hire. Two, even worse. Three? Like I've said after tough losses/ugly wins recently, there are times when I think this program is just too broken and we may not get it back. 

[Chris007 42,431]

I tried to read a few pages but my goodness this place is a cesspool. It's funny I haven't seen certain posters all season, then we get beat by the #2 team in a close game that we played well in and they come out of the woodwork.

I came here the day after the win at Michigan to see who was posting, didn't see any of these posters. They were probably too busy to post. 

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas. Go Hoosiers!!

[Stuhoo 76,251]

6 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I tried to read a few pages but my goodness this place is a cesspool. It's funny I haven't seen certain posters all season, then we get beat by the #2 team in a close game that we played well in and they come out of the woodwork.

I came here the day after the win at Michigan to see who was posting, didn't see any of these posters. They were probably too busy to post. 

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas. Go Hoosiers!!

It’s about five posters that are sure the program’s sky is falling after we played very well.

Against the #2 team in the country.

In December. 

Without our staring pg.

With us 2-0 in conference.

Plenty of legit pro and con comments mixed in though.

[TheWatShot 13,375]

19 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I tried to read a few pages but my goodness this place is a cesspool. It's funny I haven't seen certain posters all season, then we get beat by the #2 team in a close game that we played well in and they come out of the woodwork.

I came here the day after the win at Michigan to see who was posting, didn't see any of these posters. They were probably too busy to post. 

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas. Go Hoosiers!!

Hoping it doesn't get as bad as it did last year in January after the PSU game. That was the worst I've ever seen it here. I made myself stay offline for a full 24 hours just to get away from it for awhile. 

 

[Chris007 42,431]

1 minute ago, TheWatShot said:

Hoping it doesn't get as bad as it did last year in January after the PSU game. That was the worst I've ever seen it here. I made myself stay offline for a full 24 hours just to get away from it for awhile. 

 

I'm a big believer in the 24-hour rule. When I coached basketball I always told parents if they had any problems with my decisions wait 24 hours, if their still upset, then contact me. Very rare that I ever got contacted. People just need time to cool off.

 

[go iu bb 4,852]

1 hour ago, sweetpain said:

I still want Chris Beard. Now Ole Miss is undefeated in their first year as him as HC. He just wins, the schedule for him will get tougher now. Would he be a viable option for us in the future with his past?

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
 

I hope not. I wasn't really enamored with him before he turned out to be a woman beater, now I despise him. I'd have to stop watching IU basketball if he became the coach. I don't see that happening, though.

[Banksyrules 4,292]

I just think many things can be true with this team.

1. This is a team that hasn't seen its peak by a far margin. We knew that coming in.

2.Yet even though we might be awesome by the end of the season it might be too late. Unless we're top 3 or maybe 4 in the big ten that puts us on the outside looking in.   This past weekend the Big ten had good wins but the committee might hate us like they hate FSU in football.

3. The key  to see how the program moves forward is if one Queen and a couple legit shooting guards join the recruiting class. In the past a sudden lack of quality or depth of  commitments was a tell if the program was in neutral or stalled and two try to offer a ton of money so that Mgbako stays another year so we don't have a gap that we need to address next year.  Ware I presume is gone  but if IU needs to turn a corner we somehow have to keep Mgbako (like Filipowski stayed in duke).      

We're at that moment we're we might revert to what we've been used to the past 25 years or take a leap forward. I hope it works out.